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Not In The Book Discussion (Full Spoilers)

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

 

So you're guessing that's what happened....we didnt miss the event then - your guess is as good as mine? That was my guess too, and I went back, reread the part where Anrdol, is turned into Androl (lol) to see if he snitched the Seals and nothing mentioned about them. I dont remember reading that Androl passed the Seals to anyone either. This is a bit slack I think. It really isnt good enough for us to surmise that the Seals were stolen back by Androl. The plot should never have been inserted if this wasnt going to be explained. I started to think they might have accidently left a chapter out.

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

 

So you're guessing that's what happened....we didnt miss the event then - your guess is as good as mine? That was my guess too, and I went back, reread the part where Anrdol, is turned into Androl (lol) to see if he snitched the Seals and nothing mentioned about them. I dont remember reading that Androl passed the Seals to anyone either. This is a bit slack I think. It really isnt good enough for us to surmise that the Seals were stolen back by Androl. The plot should never have been inserted if this wasnt going to be explained. I started to think they might have accidently left a chapter out.

No, Androl clearly thinks on what he managed to steal.

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

 

So you're guessing that's what happened....we didnt miss the event then - your guess is as good as mine? That was my guess too, and I went back, reread the part where Anrdol, is turned into Androl (lol) to see if he snitched the Seals and nothing mentioned about them. I dont remember reading that Androl passed the Seals to anyone either. This is a bit slack I think. It really isnt good enough for us to surmise that the Seals were stolen back by Androl. The plot should never have been inserted if this wasnt going to be explained. I started to think they might have accidently left a chapter out.

No, Androl clearly thinks on what he managed to steal.

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

So you're guessing that's what happened....we didnt miss the event then - your guess is as good as mine? That was my guess too, and I went back, reread the part where Anrdol, is turned into Androl (lol) to see if he snitched the Seals and nothing mentioned about them. I dont remember reading that Androl passed the Seals to anyone either. This is a bit slack I think. It really isnt good enough for us to surmise that the Seals were stolen back by Androl. The plot should never have been inserted if this wasnt going to be explained. I started to think they might have accidently left a chapter out.

Uh hmm what?

 

AMoL pg 739

Then he held up the pouch he had pulled off Taim's belt while stumbling to his feet.

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It wasn't directly stated, but Androl managed it when Taim let him get so close.

So you're guessing that's what happened....we didnt miss the event then - your guess is as good as mine? That was my guess too, and I went back, reread the part where Anrdol, is turned into Androl (lol) to see if he snitched the Seals and nothing mentioned about them. I dont remember reading that Androl passed the Seals to anyone either. This is a bit slack I think. It really isnt good enough for us to surmise that the Seals were stolen back by Androl. The plot should never have been inserted if this wasnt going to be explained. I started to think they might have accidently left a chapter out.

Uh hmm what?

 

AMoL pg 739

>>>Then he held up the pouch he had pulled off Taim's belt while stumbling to his feet.

 

 

Okay, thanks. Like I said, I wasnt sure if I missed the event. But as it was it wasnt much of an event!! The fact that he - Androl had the Seals wasnt even mentioned. But I guess it does say (p737) that he saw Taim put the disc into the pouch on his belt. Bit of a non event though for such an important action. It seems that quite a few people missed Androl stealing them, a sentence stating somehting like 'He pulled out a white and black disc...' would have helped.. anyhow..

 

** Just thought I would mention that I wasnt ignoring the above posts, but was writing a post and inadvertently posted at the same time that the others posters who had replied to my question and  was unaware that they had posted replies to my answers - hope that makes sense! Sorry for the confusion.

Edited by annie

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By the way, my guess on the growing songs is that the Ogier have now figured out what's up. They sang growing songs during their battle. Rand sang some growing songs when other people (for example, Mat) were around. It wouldn't be too hard to piece it together. It won't be like the Age of Legends growing songs, though, because those also included the Nym, and there are none of those left.

 

Nonetheless, presumably the Tinkers and the Ogier will hang out and figure out some songs early in the Fourth Age, based on the above.

 

At the signing tonight in Lexington, I asked BS about this.  This is pretty much exactly what he said:

 

"Robert Jordan's notes on this are very clear:  the tinkers will never find their song.  They've lost it for too long, that even if someone stood in front of them singing The Song, they would just nod their head, say 'that's a nice song' and go on their way."  He also confirmed that Rand was singing The Song in Tuon's garden.

 

Also:  Siuan going into to a burning building to save Mat was a deliberate reference to her first conversation with him.

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Not sure how it fits with the above but RJ already confirmed there is no "song". It never existed in the manner they believe. There were many growing songs and one needed the talent of the "voice" or "singing" to make them work.

Edited by Suttree

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I loved the book, the few things I was missing or scratching my head at... well, about 15 mins of reading these forums, there really isn't much left for me to puzzle over (minus Nakomi and the gray haired lady that looked like an Aiel as Rand left the pit of doom...carrying his own body, but those are fun and okay).

 

I must have missed some major plot, because it seemed to be Faile and Olver and crew were transported to the blight from that bubble/gateway in Tar Valon.  They marched for a few days and were approaching Shayul Ghul in the Blasted Lands.

 

How did Olver and Faile end up in Merrilor?  Was I reading too fast?  Was this explained??

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Registered to add wild speculation and theory towards what some of you have been saying.

 

Three in a boat - page 907. "Or maybe all of them would, in their own time . . . Maybe he could find a ship?" 

I don't think it's crazy to think that Jordan before he died would have Rand visit Mat, however briefly, in a post book Seanchan adventure.

In this strand of logic, they might actually all come with him (Not likely) and could fulfill that. Or. Just having them bonded to him would count towards that.

Lazy, I know, but it would work.

 

How Rand lit his pipe by thinking - This honestly for whatever reason has me thinking that by being so close to the fragile Dreamland-Bore area immediately after he reappeared back into the Pattern while he wove the prison back together gave Rand some permanent minor Dreamland powers. Namely that he can do things like light a pipe by thinking but that's probably the extent of it. Maybe it was a last gift from the Creator, maybe it was an accidental thing the pattern did to allow him entry back into itself (wasn't he, after all, gone from the Pattern for a brief time?), or maybe if the True Power is from the DO and the whole conclusion was essentially every tail has a head, then wouldn't the Creator have an opposite essence...the...False Power? Dreamland? Maybe? Probably not?

 

This string of wild speculation could also lead to how Rand found himself in Moridin's body if there was some Dreamland body switcheroo shenanigans.

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They go to the Village at the bottom of Thak'an'dar and attempt to escape by way of the gateways there by disgusing themselves in a pillaged caravan, but they are discovered.  One of Faile's people takes the horn to deliver to Demandred in Merrilor.  Faile and Oliver chase her through the gateway, and kill her, but are quickly attacked by enemy forces.  They run around and hide in some holes till other stuff happens.

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I may have missed something, but what happened to Dobraine? Last I remember Rand sent him to Tear. Did he just hang out there? As a pretty staunch supporter of Rands, it seemed strange that he just sort of... disappeared.

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One thing I was somewhat unclear on, partially because I read too damn fast.

 

So, Callandor was a True Power angreal?  Did that mean it could use the True Power, or was always using the True Power?  In other words, when Rand used Callandor in the Stone of Tear and against the Seanchan, was it channeling the True Power, and not saidin?  I would not think so, since Narishma used Callandor, and you would think the Asha'man would remark about it if they didn't feel saidin from it.

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On Dobraine, yeah in tGS he went to the Stone and was forgotten afterwards.

 

Callandor, it amplifies both saidin and True Power. It glows red when used with TP, white with saidin. Rand had never used it with TP before.

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Another thing that struck me as a bit off, and maybe someone else has already mentioned it, but it seemed like the good guys had a knowledge of the True Power when previously they hadn't even known of its existence.

I think it was briefly mentioned that the Book Ter'angreal that Avienda found had some mentions of the TP buried somewhere in it. That, and I figured that Rand had described it to some of his followers off-camera.

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One thing I was somewhat unclear on, partially because I read too damn fast.

 

So, Callandor was a True Power angreal?  Did that mean it could use the True Power, or was always using the True Power?  In other words, when Rand used Callandor in the Stone of Tear and against the Seanchan, was it channeling the True Power, and not saidin?  I would not think so, since Narishma used Callandor, and you would think the Asha'man would remark about it if they didn't feel saidin from it.

I would think that Callandor can use the TP but doesn't always use it. Particuarly if it's being used by someone who doesn't have the Great Lord's permission to use it.

However, it's mentioned in one of the earlier books that one of Callandor's flaws is that it amplifies the effect of the taint. This could imply that it's drawing on the TP as well, or it could have just been forshadowing of it's nature as a TP sa'angreal.

 

I don't remember seeing it used in the books after the source was cleansed before the ending where it came into play, so I don't know if it still had effects of a taint that was no longer there.

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One thing I was somewhat unclear on, partially because I read too damn fast.

 

So, Callandor was a True Power angreal?  Did that mean it could use the True Power, or was always using the True Power?  In other words, when Rand used Callandor in the Stone of Tear and against the Seanchan, was it channeling the True Power, and not saidin?  I would not think so, since Narishma used Callandor, and you would think the Asha'man would remark about it if they didn't feel saidin from it.

 

It is capable of amplifying either, if they are channeled through it.  I suspect that is why it amplified the taint, since the taint was some form of the true power, stripped of it's ability to be channeled usefully.

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Another thing that maybe I missed, but why is it bad to enter TAR in the flesh? All throughout the series everyone from the Wise Ones to Aes Sedai have said its bad, you lose a bit of yourself, etc etc. Yet when Perrin asked about it, he basically just got told, "because, it is." There seemed to be no real explanation as to why, and Perrin did it about a billion times later in close succession and he seems fine.

 

Is it just a stupid superstition potentially created by Forsaken during AOL and one of the "facts" that survived the Breaking, or is Perrin somehow immune due to him not being a channeler?

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Another thing that maybe I missed, but why is it bad to enter TAR in the flesh? All throughout the series everyone from the Wise Ones to Aes Sedai have said its bad, you lose a bit of yourself, etc etc. Yet when Perrin asked about it, he basically just got told, "because, it is." There seemed to be no real explanation as to why, and Perrin did it about a billion times later in close succession and he seems fine.

 

Is it just a stupid superstition potentially created by Forsaken during AOL and one of the "facts" that survived the Breaking, or is Perrin somehow immune due to him not being a channeler?

 

Ya I always wanted an answer to this as well.  I kind of assumed that it was just an old wives' tail, but a firm answer would have been nice.

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Another thing that maybe I missed, but why is it bad to enter TAR in the flesh? All throughout the series everyone from the Wise Ones to Aes Sedai have said its bad, you lose a bit of yourself, etc etc. Yet when Perrin asked about it, he basically just got told, "because, it is." There seemed to be no real explanation as to why, and Perrin did it about a billion times later in close succession and he seems fine.

 

Is it just a stupid superstition potentially created by Forsaken during AOL and one of the "facts" that survived the Breaking, or is Perrin somehow immune due to him not being a channeler?

 

Wasn't that alluded to in the early books?  Something about how you "lose a bit of yourself" that way?  Though that does sound a bit like a wives tale. 

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Jesus Christ if I have to read one more thing about the heartbeat vs. Darkfriend-sensing debate I'm going to lose it. Who cares? I haven't been paying attention to the authors of these posts, but I really hope it's the same two people, because if this website is made up of an entire community of people who just nitpick ad infinitum, I'm giving up. Take it to personal messages or something, because you're just quoting the same parts of the book over and over again. 

 

And someone else brought this up, but no one else seemed bothered by it. Who was the fake Sammael moving Shadowspawn through the Ways? That was such a causal aside thrown out by Moridin and it really floored me, but was never mentioned again. 

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Another thing that maybe I missed, but why is it bad to enter TAR in the flesh? All throughout the series everyone from the Wise Ones to Aes Sedai have said its bad, you lose a bit of yourself, etc etc. Yet when Perrin asked about it, he basically just got told, "because, it is." There seemed to be no real explanation as to why, and Perrin did it about a billion times later in close succession and he seems fine.

 

Is it just a stupid superstition potentially created by Forsaken during AOL and one of the "facts" that survived the Breaking, or is Perrin somehow immune due to him not being a channeler?

 

Wasn't that alluded to in the early books?  Something about how you "lose a bit of yourself" that way?  Though that does sound a bit like a wives tale. 

I think there were real dangers, but they weren't necessarily spelled out by the people saying it was dangerous. We did see Perrin be adversely affected by the level of sheer physical exhaustion of the time difference between TAR and the real world, and I think the nourishment requirements would also create problems. But I think the "unnaturalness" thing likely stems from the use of TAR by the Forsaken in the flesh, something the wolves and the Wise Ones were keenly aware of. Or maybe they just wanted to keep non-Dreamers out. 

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