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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)

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Egwene deciding to just die because she would be burned out otherwise irritated me.  Stilling had been cured at this point.  Same with Annoura's sacrifice: yeah, she burned out.  But it wasn't as terrible of a thing anymore.

If egwene decided not to die and just be burned out. She'll definitely die the moment she release the source, there are hundreds of ayyad around her.

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Egwene deciding to just die because she would be burned out otherwise irritated me.  Stilling had been cured at this point.  Same with Annoura's sacrifice: yeah, she burned out.  But it wasn't as terrible of a thing anymore.

 

I didn't think burning out could be Healed, just stilling?

It is quite likely burning out can't be healed. Stilling one must reconnect the "cut" to make the connection to the source active again. People can still sense the source once they've been stilled. When you are burned out the connection is gone, much like not being able to heal Rand's missing hand.

 

Ah, thanks for clarifying.  I always thought that Stilling was when someone did it to them, whereas Burning Out was when they did it to themselves.  Same effect, different ways it was accomplished.

I certainly wouldn't take that as a fact. There was any any indication that being burned out did anything different to the connection than stilling. In the AoL, they just called it severing, rather than having different names.

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unless i missed one here are the 7 amyrlin seats since the first book

1-Tamra Ospenya (Blue Ajah)

2-Sierin Vayu (Gray Ajah)

3-Marith Jaen (Blue Ajah)

4-Siuan Sanche (Blue Ajah)

5-Elaida a'Roihan (Red Ajah)

6-Egwene al'Vere (None)

7-Cadsuane Melaidhrin: Green Ajah. amol

 

 

Isn't this a trick question?  Is the 'first' book first in publication order, chronological order, and does the chronological depend on the time frame of the majority of content in the book?

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A few things I like to imagine happening that touch on multiple posts in this thread: I think Birgitte is reborn as one of Melaine's children. They constantly mentioned how close to term she is whereas Elayne is months away from pregnancy. I like to think that Hawking's conversation with Tuon will influence the Seanchan to abandon collaring people. Is it ever stated that the body of Moridin had the ability to channel saidan? I thought he was exclusively using the true power? Do you necessarily have to be able to channel saidan in order for the Dark One to grant you access to the true power? As far as Rand being in the body of one of the Forsaken, if he can will the Pattern to light his pipe couldn't he just will his appearance to change as well? He could bend the Pattern to look however he wants. This one is more of a stretch but I like to imagine the woman outside the cavern is Nakomi and that is Rand's mother. She somehow appears as the veil between life and death and the Pattern is thin right as the Bore/cavern is closing. Her words of "that's good, that's what you need to do" echo those of Tam's farewell and the "you did well". Also, Rand's words after she disappears about how we choose our fate even though the Aelfinn told him what he needed to do mirrors that Tigraine ultimately chose to leave for the Waste even though she was foretold to. (I had already decided to interpret Nakomi as Tigraine from ToM)

I think the soul affects if you can channel or not, the body has nothing to do with it.  Every dead forskaen who was brought back could still channel.  Since Ishy never was burnt out or stilled before he died he can still channel as Moridin.  He just decided to use the true Power almost exclusively. 

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It was never determined if a burn out could be healed.  I guess they found out the day after the battle was done, I'm sure Annoura wasn't the only one to burn herself out.

 

However, a burnout cannot sense the source, this was stated in the book a couple of times.  Severed channelers could still sense it.

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I think that the AS rand stilled when he escaped dumais wells, where actually burned out from the effort to contain him  and some kind of backfire when he broke their seald. There is no reference in LOC that he used a severing weave, when he got out his guards were already passed out. All these AS where healed by Damer Flinn. For the case of Annura, maybe is taxing to the healer and with all the wounded at the time they coudnt spare the strength, they barely keep Galad in life, or non present had the particular talend and knowledge.

 

EDIT: In SR Siuan after her stilling states that she feels an emptiness, nothing. Setalle, known burnout says something similar to Mat. Also Siuan never says that she sensed the source, when she put moghedien's adam on she senses her but cant control her, there isnt any other experiment of this nature with a burn out person that states different. So nor the stilled nor the burned ones can feel the source.

Edited by tsoxt

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unless i missed one here are the 7 amyrlin seats since the first book

1-Tamra Ospenya (Blue Ajah)

2-Sierin Vayu (Gray Ajah)

3-Marith Jaen (Blue Ajah)

4-Siuan Sanche (Blue Ajah)

5-Elaida a'Roihan (Red Ajah)

6-Egwene al'Vere (None)

7-Cadsuane Melaidhrin: Green Ajah. amol

 

 

Isn't this a trick question?  Is the 'first' book first in publication order, chronological order, and does the chronological depend on the time frame of the majority of content in the book?

the time frame of the majority of content in the book?

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:mellow:

 

I..I am torn between wanting to laugh hysterically and being appalled.  And for some reason I heard Morgan Freeman's voice in the last sentence.  I can't unhear it.

Edited by peasant007

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unless i missed one here are the 7 amyrlin seats since the first book

1-Tamra Ospenya (Blue Ajah)

2-Sierin Vayu (Gray Ajah)

3-Marith Jaen (Blue Ajah)

4-Siuan Sanche (Blue Ajah)

5-Elaida a'Roihan (Red Ajah)

6-Egwene al'Vere (None)

7-Cadsuane Melaidhrin: Green Ajah. amol

 

 

Isn't this a trick question?  Is the 'first' book first in publication order, chronological order, and does the chronological depend on the time frame of the majority of content in the book?

the time frame of the majority of content in the book?

The majority of the book took place in the last 2ish years since Rand and co. left the Two Rivers at which time Siuan was Amyrlin.

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Well, just finished the book and the last Rand scene was great. I too think that it's like he's a dreamwalker in the "real" world as aiel always talk about it being a dream (kind of makes sense to me personally). Anyways, there is SO many questions i would love to see answered regarding post-LB that I don't know where to begin (and to be honest a little bit overwhelmed by the book, as only finished it 5 minutes ago). My hope is that Encyclopedia will answer some questions. 

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I just finished reading through the first time. I'll admit I was reading pretty fast and probably missed some stuff, but here are my thoughts.

 

Rand was not burned out. This has already been expanded. Severing can be healed, being burned out cannot - not in this lifetime or any other. If Rand (or more importantly his soul) has lost the ability to channel forever, the world is screwed at the next turning.

 

I don't know Rand's future...but I can't see him as the type of guy not being present for the birth and childhood of his children. So he has about 3 months to split wood for a hay loft before his and Elayne's children are born.

 

The Aiel are done, they are over. Here's the thing...whether they go from Peace keepers, to those that bring peace, to 'Dai'shain Aiel' OR get exterminated by the Seanchan, the Aiel as we know it are finished. One path is more palatable than the other though.

 

The mechanisms that will end damane have begun turning. The moment that Tuon agreed to allow damane that want to be free to move to Randland and also allow her people to go to Randland nations and try to convince girls to submit to being damane, the genie was let out of the bottle. Freedom and liberty are contagious and will quickly spread through the Empire.

 

On Rand's life span. I don't if I buy this or not, but I think it has some evidence. Rand has a normal non-channeller's life span now. In Avi's vision of the future, Rand won. If he won, his soul was transfered to Moridin's body. If he lived a normal channeller's lifespan, Rand would be alive and still quite young when the war is grinding to an end between the Seanchan and Aiel - with the Aiel loosing. There is no way that Rand would stand aside and let this magnitude of slavery and genocide occur. So he must have had a normal life span and passed away long before that point.

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I

The mechanisms that will end damane have begun turning. The moment that Tuon agreed to allow damane that want to be free to move to Randland and also allow her people to go to Randland nations and try to convince girls to submit to being damane, the genie was let out of the bottle. Freedom and liberty are contagious and will quickly spread through the Empire.

 

 

Pretty sure Tuon didn't agree to set free Damane that wanted to be set free.  She was trying to get her to say it, and she wouldn't

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Ah but you see the logic to Egwene's agreement with Tuon is not the Damane. Its the Sul'dam they are allowed to choose to leave Seanchan lands and learn to channel and it will happen and the more it happens the more the whole Damane-Sul'dam system will fall apart.

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Ah but you see the logic to Egwene's agreement with Tuon is not the Damane. Its the Sul'dam they are allowed to choose to leave Seanchan lands and learn to channel and it will happen and the more it happens the more the whole Damane-Sul'dam system will fall apart.

I disagree. Yes, the Seanchan system of controlling channellers will eventually fall apart, but not because the Sul'dam leave the Seanchan lands to become channellers of their own initiative. The sul'dam regard channelling as a crime. They really believe that.

 

I'm pretty sure the solution will be provided by Seta and Bethamin. Mat send them to the WT with the command to find a way for channellers to live openly and freely in the empire without destroying it and they'll succeed. I'd say RJ planned for them to come back in the outriggers.

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Did anybody else think that the Mistress of the Kitchens at the WT, Laras was either a darkfriend or a Forsaken in disguise?

A few things I can remember her doing:
1/ Helping Suain and Leane escape post stiling - spreading chaos?

2/ Trying to get close to Elmindreda "Min" - saying she did this because she 'reminded her of herself'. Min pointedly wonders how such a large ordinary woman sees any of herself in Elmindreda (Who was designed by Suain to be a disguise with nothing in common with Min). Maybe one of the Forsaken. Everyone always comments on how she's so light on her feet for a large woman. People also make this observation about the fat merchant woman Lanfear impersonates in the waste.
 

3/ When Egwene is succeeding in undermining Elaida with her passive resistane, the Shadow decides she's becoming too competent/dangerous. Shortly after this Lara's offers to help her escape her imprisonment through a tunnel in a storage room in the kitchen. I remember being very scared for Egwene that if she got into that box she'd never get out

4/ She was present in aMoL at the supply area directly before Faile ended up in the blight. I think Faile, a non-channeler thought the Aes Sedai who died managed to weave a gateway, but possibly it was just Laras. There was no other female channeler there to see the weaves or their origin.

 

I can remember thinking this at other times, but these were the examples that most come to mind.
 

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Well in the end every character who died in Last Batle is going to be reborn again :-D then how long before Egwain and co. are back ??:-)

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I think that Rand and the Dark One proved that you can't have reality without the Pattern itself. If the Dark One destroys the Wheel of Time, it destroys the Pattern and all of reality is destroyed as well. There is no way to win when you can't not destroy the Pattern. The Dark One doesn't have the power to create a new version of the Pattern either I don't think.

 

Umm. Destroying pattern and all the reality is the DO's goal. Why DO can't destroy those? He doesn't need the power to create new version of the Pattern as that's not what he wants it. He wants it gone. Destroyed. Reality into nothingness. Not even dead reality with dead rocks. Just nothingness.

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Morbid curiousity, but I wonder what percentage of the Light army survived, and what were the general numbers among the different groups. For instance, it sounds like the Aes Sedai didn't really get off well, considering alot of them were in the thick of the fighting.

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What about the Chekov's Gun thing? Has it been determined what that was?

I could be wrong, but I think it was the giant pack of Darkhounds.

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She is Padra, daughter of the Dragon Reborn and a Maiden. She and her three siblings, brothers Alarch and Janduin and sister Marinna, hold the One Power constantly and channeled since early childhood.5 Alarch has his looks from his wetlander side and has dark hair.6

 

This is what Aviendha seeing during her Rhuidean visit. Notice that her daughter has dark hair.... I think this shows that Rand does not actually abandon Elayne, Aviendha or Min or his kids.. This vision might not hold true now, but it comes really close to the future where Rand actually wins and the Dragon Peace is enacted. The only thing different in this future arc probably would be the Aiel future....

 

So I think Rand will roam around a bit but will constantly be in touch with his 3 lovers and his children.

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I just finished reading through the first time. I'll admit I was reading pretty fast and probably missed some stuff, but here are my thoughts.

 

Rand was not burned out. This has already been expanded. Severing can be healed, being burned out cannot - not in this lifetime or any other. If Rand (or more importantly his soul) has lost the ability to channel forever, the world is screwed at the next turning.

 

I don't know Rand's future...but I can't see him as the type of guy not being present for the birth and childhood of his children. So he has about 3 months to split wood for a hay loft before his and Elayne's children are born.

 

The Aiel are done, they are over. Here's the thing...whether they go from Peace keepers, to those that bring peace, to 'Dai'shain Aiel' OR get exterminated by the Seanchan, the Aiel as we know it are finished. One path is more palatable than the other though.

 

The mechanisms that will end damane have begun turning. The moment that Tuon agreed to allow damane that want to be free to move to Randland and also allow her people to go to Randland nations and try to convince girls to submit to being damane, the genie was let out of the bottle. Freedom and liberty are contagious and will quickly spread through the Empire.

 

On Rand's life span. I don't if I buy this or not, but I think it has some evidence. Rand has a normal non-channeller's life span now. In Avi's vision of the future, Rand won. If he won, his soul was transfered to Moridin's body. If he lived a normal channeller's lifespan, Rand would be alive and still quite young when the war is grinding to an end between the Seanchan and Aiel - with the Aiel loosing. There is no way that Rand would stand aside and let this magnitude of slavery and genocide occur. So he must have had a normal life span and passed away long before that point.

Burn out can be healed, the sisters holding rand captive in LOC where burnout from the backfire of the broken seald. When Setalle put Joline's adam on and takes a few steps with her starts to feel Joline's pain, the same as Siuan feels Moghedien but can do nothing with her. So if Setalle(Burn out) is the same with Siuan(stilled) and the red sisters healed from Damer Flin, burn out can be healed!

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Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.

 

harriet is a dirty word.  at least lucas had the stones to let other authors continue to expand his world.. she's only hurting the fans.

I think it works much better by leaving it up to the readers' imaginations. Jordan himself said that he would leave a lot of questions unanswered because of this.

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I like to think that not only is Matt's luck gone... but that he owes an enormous cosmic debt to even out all the good luck he racked up. So he spends the next couple years muddling through rotten luck with his usual dash and humor.

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I finished reading with the feeling that Rand or one of his girls will let Tam know that he's OK.  Even if they don't say it outloud, I suspect he will talk to Min and she will betray something.  In fact, almost anyone who cares about Rand is going to come to the same conclusion after interacting with the girls.

This was how I pictured it. I think Rand will eventually visit each of his friends one at a time and have nice reunions, after he goes off and does his own thing for a bit.

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I finished reading with the feeling that Rand or one of his girls will let Tam know that he's OK.  Even if they don't say it outloud, I suspect he will talk to Min and she will betray something.  In fact, almost anyone who cares about Rand is going to come to the same conclusion after interacting with the girls.

This was how I pictured it. I think Rand will eventually visit each of his friends one at a time and have nice reunions, after he goes off and does his own thing for a bit.

I hope so.  I think it would be against Rand's character to not let his friends know eventually.  Ditto not being there for his kids.

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