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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)


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By wiped out I assumed that Seanchan was a continent not attached to the landmass that held Shayol Ghul. So they destroyed the Shadowspawn that were nesting there and none could replace them because there was no way for them to get there with a sea in the way.

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I'm really curious about how the Seanchan ordeal will be solved. I'm not convinced that the aiel will manage to prevent Aviendha's vision from coming true. At the end of wot, there are two things that have changed from Aviendha's vision. The aiel now have a purpose under the Dragon's Peace and the Wise Ones are aware that war with Seanchan means the obliteration of ji-eh-toh. These are good first steps, but war with the Seanchan is inevitable while the damane problem persists. The Seanchan cannot get rid of damane since the entire strength of the empire rests on the damane. Furthermore they will not value the Dragon's Peace over their own national concerns. Tuon seemed accommodating, but in Aviendha's vision she was assassinated, and I don't see Aviendha or any of the Wise Ones interfering to keep her alive.

It seems to me that Perrin is probably right that they are no longer ta'veren. The lack of colors and pulling is one good sign of this, but also consider. We've been told (I think by Moiraine in one of the earlier books) that the when the pattern is going astray it makes some people ta'veren to force the threads around it until the problem is fixed or something like that. Ta'veren is not for life, and there is absolutely no reason for Rand, Mat or Perrin to remain ta'veren.

Also, I don't think Mat's luck was tied to his ta'veren nature. His ta'veren nature and luck definitely interacted since both forces distort chance around him, but I don't think luck was Mat's manifestation of his ta'veren nature. If it had been, I would guess it would wax as he grew stronger, but that's not what happened. Until he went to the White tower, his luck may have been slightly better than average (he remembers always being lucky), but it was far from supernatural. In the White Tower he suddenly became lucky. For the rest of the series there is no change in his luck even as his ta'veren nature rapidly strengthens.

I'm not sure what to think about Nakomi, but there is something interesting about her appearance:
"A figure kneeling down beside him. 'Yes,' a woman whispered. He did not recognize the voice. 'Yes, that's good. That is what you need to do."
(AMOL)

It seems to me like she is guiding Rand or something. I think this suggests that it was Rand, maybe unconsciously with Nakomi's help, but still Rand who did the body swap.

So yeah, loved the book! Sorry about the long post, but I had a bunch of things to say.

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I have heard elsewhere on the forums that only a portion of the Sharan population was undertaken by Demandred's charms...

 

Can someone give me a link for this?

 

Also, (this is according to the BWB, so the evidence IS flawed) if the Ayyad cull channeling men for mating stock, then how do the Sharan male channelers we see work out?

You'd assume that they would be depressed eunuchs (figuratively...)...

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I have heard elsewhere on the forums that only a portion of the Sharan population was undertaken by Demandred's charms...

 

Can someone give me a link for this?

 

Also, (this is according to the BWB, so the evidence IS flawed) if the Ayyad cull channeling men for mating stock, then how do the Sharan male channelers we see work out?

You'd assume that they would be depressed eunuchs (figuratively...)...

 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: 2013

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)
 
WERTHEAD (23 JANUARY 2013)
Did Demandred take over just a single faction of Sharans, or all of them?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON (23 JANUARY 2013)

Multiple factions, but not all by a long shot.

 

 

 

As for the males, you will notice they are all little more than animals in aMoL. They are not educated and are bred for their genes. Demandred obviously stopped the culling and recruited some of them - however, beyond rudimentary skills, the male Sharan's are basically mindless animals. 

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As for the males, you will notice they are all little more than animals in aMoL. They are not educated and are bred for their genes. Demandred obviously stopped the culling and recruited some of them - however, beyond rudimentary skills, the male Sharan's are basically mindless animals. 

 

True, but for anyone who's seen Walk Like A Man starring Howie Mandel, that doesn't have to be a limitation.

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I'm really curious about how the Seanchan ordeal will be solved. I'm not convinced that the aiel will manage to prevent Aviendha's vision from coming true.

 

Once the damane issue is solved, the Seanchan are no longer a threat.

There is every reason to believe that the damane issue will be resolved (ie forced slavery abolished) because of:

 

Hawkwing meeting with Tuon.

Tuon's agreement with Ewgwene

Mat's (and possibly Min's) influence with Tuon.

 

The purpose of Avi's vision was to alert the Aiel of the problem so that it could be solved.   I see no reason to think that it won't be.

Edited by Hondo
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We saw Tuon after Hawking met her, and during her meeting with Egwene she was, umm as bitchy as we've ever seen her. We have no reason to suspect that they will just release whoever wants to be released, not only because it would put Mogy back in the world, but Elaida and any of the Sharaan nasties that were captured, along with a couple hundred asshole Shaido Wise Ones...ummm, I kind of want them to keep who they have and leave it at that, as much as I abhor them, they have some pretty nasty people tied up there.

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I'm really curious about how the Seanchan ordeal will be solved. I'm not convinced that the aiel will manage to prevent Aviendha's vision from coming true.

 

Once the damane issue is solved, the Seanchan are no longer a threat.

There is every reason to believe that the damane issue will be resolved (ie forced slavery abolished) because of:

 

Hawkwing meeting with Tuon.

Tuon's agreement with Ewgwene

Mat's (and possibly Min's) influence with Tuon.

 

The purpose of Avi's vision was to alert the Aiel of the problem so that it could be solved.   I see no reason to think that it won't be.

I'm not so certain. Tuon is relatively open-minded. That said, it would be an incredibly foolish act for her to release the da'mane and she knows it. She's willing to listen to arguments, but even if she was convinced that da'mane are morally wrong (which would be no easy feat), I don't see her putting that above the needs of Seanchan.

Furthermore, in Avi's vision Tuon was assassinated fairly quickly. While this was only a possibility, the books imply that the vision is a very likely possibility, and in the Seanchan assassination culture, the loss of Tuon will not be overly surprising. The Wise Ones are the only ones who know about the visions, so they have the best chance to change it, yet it seems like most of the discussion among Aiel Wise Ones is how to give the Aiel purpose. The da'mane problem was never addressed or even acknowledged except as a reason that the Aiel would eventually go to war.

 

Finally, even if I'm completely wrong and Tuon turns out to be amenable and has a long life ahead of her as empress, I'm skeptical that even she'd have the political power to abolish the da'mane system. While the empress seems to be above the law in Seanchan, I doubt she can overcome a thousand years of propaganda before tensions erupt on both sides.

 

As for Avi's vision, it was a warning about a future the Aiel need to prevent. There's no guarantee that they'll successfully change it.

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As for Avi's vision, it was a warning about a future the Aiel need to prevent. There's no guarantee that they'll successfully change it.

It's strongly implied that they already averted going down that path. Maybe the encyclopedia or a Q&A will confirm.

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I asked Brandon who Nakomi is, if she is the same person that helps Rand out of the Pit of Doom and he said he could not answer it...  This is the only thing i'm curious about.

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As for Avi's vision, it was a warning about a future the Aiel need to prevent. There's no guarantee that they'll successfully change it.

It's strongly implied that they already averted going down that path. Maybe the encyclopedia or a Q&A will confirm.

True, but it begs the question exactly how. So- did anything Avi did affect Tuon meeting Hawking etc. The way the Aiel behave will change, but has anything happened yet to affect the Seachan differently- ie, did all of the things happen in Tuon's court the same way in Avi's orginal vision. I would suggest yes, and its up to the Aiel and whoever they can work with to influence the Seanchan down the road.

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As for Avi's vision, it was a warning about a future the Aiel need to prevent. There's no guarantee that they'll successfully change it.

It's strongly implied that they already averted going down that path. Maybe the encyclopedia or a Q&A will confirm.

I don't know, it seems to imply to me that avoiding that fate is possible, but not probable (which means if an outrigger were ever based in the fourth age, they'd definitely avert it).

 

On a slightly unrelated note, in Avi's vision we see most nations retain their national identity from the end of the third age (at least for a couple of generations), but we also have the fourth age excerpts which come from countries never mentioned in the book. I don't have my books with me, so does anyone know about how long after the last battle these excerpts are supposed to be written? Does this have anything to do with a supposed Raven/Dragon empire or some other unrest?

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I think it would have been interesting for a Seanchan vs Shara war for the outriggers if RJ would have still lived, considering their opposite stances on channelers.

 

But yes the men ayyad if you call them ayyad were described as shirtless with baggy pants and tattooed so they are probably similar to how a damane is seen by seanchan.

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I wish we could have seen the meeting between Hawking and Tuon. Does Hawking still hate the Aes Sedai? He essentially went to war with them during his reign, even besieging Tar Valon. MIght he actually approve of the leashing of channelers? Or has he changed somehow in the after-life. His hatred of Aes Sedai was the result of Ishmael's evil counsel. Maybe the ghost version of Hawking is a new man?

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I wish we could have seen the meeting between Hawking and Tuon. Does Hawking still hate the Aes Sedai? He essentially went to war with them during his reign, even besieging Tar Valon. MIght he actually approve of the leashing of channelers? Or has he changed somehow in the after-life. His hatred of Aes Sedai was the result of Ishmael's evil counsel. Maybe the ghost version of Hawking is a new man?

Ishy's compulsion that turned him against AS would not carry over into another life. Hawking had numerous AS as governors and in positions of power before he came along.

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I wonder if the White and Black Towers will unify under an Amyrilian like in the Age of Legends. The Black Tower is potentially dangerous because the men are not limited by the 3 oaths.

The title wasnt Amyrlin in the AoL. The individual was called "First Among Sevants". Brandon has said they will not join anytime soon but will eventually. Edited by Suttree
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We saw Tuon after Hawking met her, and during her meeting with Egwene she was, umm as bitchy as we've ever seen her. 

Wasn't Egwene dead by the time the Horn was sounded?

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The Seanchan situation can be "explained away" with Tuon speaking to Hawkwing and us assuming that she listened to whatever he said because her entire nation's purpose was to follow him. However, that's a bit of a cop-out, and I was a bit disappointed that we didn't see the actual encounter.

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The Seanchan situation can be "explained away" with Tuon speaking to Hawkwing and us assuming that she listened to whatever he said because her entire nation's purpose was to follow him. However, that's a bit of a cop-out, and I was a bit disappointed that we didn't see the actual encounter.

Even if Brandon wanted to leave the details open, it'd be nice to know if she would BELIEVE it was actually him, or if she'd rationalize him away by saying he's no longer really HER Hawkwing and she speaks for those wishes. Just needed a reaction shot of them first seeing each other really. Then Brandon could have closed the door. Religionus fervor can make some people quite willfully blind even to the most obvious things. I actually suspect she did not take it well and probably didn't let it change her opinion. Which makes Tuon the worst female character IMO. The whole Omens stuff and stubbornness despite evidence. She's ridiculous. But of course Egwene is the terrible one right?! amirite?
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Not sure what thread to put this in, so...

 

 

I have been thinking about the way Egwene went and the "Flame of Tar Valon". And it makes sense, in my eyes. Firstly, the Flame of Tar Valon is the white half of the ancient Aes Sedai symbol. Egwene, as the Amyrlin Seat over channeled and made a huge crystal spire (or whatever it was) marking where she died, with that weave. This mirrors the Dragon when he over channeled and made Dragonmount to mark where he died, using balefire (at least that is what it appears to be), and mirrors the fact that Egwene was always really Rand's opposite. 

 

Which makes me think - the black part of the ancient Aes Sedai symbol is called the Dragon's Fang, which interestingly is something you could call Dragonmount itself. A fang sticking out the earth, created by the Dragon. This led me to think that balefire could alternatively be called the Dragon's Fang. Though this is entirely dependent on how Dragonmount is created, if it is balefire or not (the description seems to fit). 

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Though this is entirely dependent on how Dragonmount is created, if it is balefire or not (the description seems to fit).

We know that LTT didn't use balefire when DM was created.

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He didn't? I couldn't tell, at least from rereading the Prologue to EotW. Is it explained somewhere else?

 

I mean, the prologue says:

 

The air turned to fire, the fire to light liquified. The bolt that struck from the heavens would have seared and blinded any eye that glimpsed it, even for an instant. From the heavens it came, blazed through Lews Therin Telamon, bored into the bowels of the earth. Stone turned to vapor at its touch. The earth thrashed and quivered like a living thing in agony. Only a heartbeat did the shining bar exist, connecting ground and sky, but even after it vanished the earth yet heaved like the sea in a storm.

 

I can clearly see that he got the earth to quake there, and it appears that it was lightning ("bolt") but the effects appear like balefire, especially the "turned to vapor". I can't see lightning doing that, though if it is specifically stated somewhere else then it I'll take it as just being ridiculously powered lightning (since I can't think of any other weave similar).

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Interview: Nov, 1993                                                         
Trinity College Q&A (Paraphrased)

                                            

Robert Jordan                                          

 

Specific questions: Lews Therin Telamon's suicide was emphatically not balefire, but an overload of the Power.

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