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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)

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Logic states that he swapped his own body.... Now that really is interesting. I'm very interested to know how he didn't even have the strength to stand up yet he did something that would require a ridiculous amount of power. I'm also interested to know how, being in a state of mental delirium, he accomplished this. 

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Regarding the body swap:

 

We know Rand and Moridin had some kind of bond from the balefire incident in Shadar Logoth. We know that they could sense each other and that Rand could access the TP through Moridin. It seems quite possible that during the time when Rand was channeling a massive amount of the OP and TP to put the Dark one back outside of time in its prison, that the body swap may have just occurred. I don't think we know that Rand was in his original body when he left the cave. Given the state of delirium and ehaustion that he must have felt, he may have been carrying his own body on autopilot akin to a soldier in battle that picks up his arm after it was blown off. What good is that going to do?

 

I need to read the scene of him exiting the cave again, but I think this fits. It may not have been a deliberate and conscious action on his part. Moridin probably didn't even have a choice considering the flaw in Callandor.

Edited by Rhiadon

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there are no more jenn aiel.

of course there aren't. The pattern was breaking at that time. dead we're walking already so why not dead jenn aiel? Aviendha was after all going to rhuidean.

following your logic, it could have been larine from valan luca traveling circus. the pattern was breaking, so why not? the fact that there's no evidence of the contrary, doesn't make it true. i don't see the point in coming up with far fetched theories involving long dead aiel clan members when the possibility of it being true is so low

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 I don't think we know that Rand was in his original body when he left the cave. Given the state of delirium and ehaustion that he must have felt, he may have been carrying his own body on autopilot akin to a soldier in battle that picks up his arm after it was blown off. What good is that going to do?

I think it is a problem because other people saw that scene.

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there are no more jenn aiel.

of course there aren't. The pattern was breaking at that time. dead we're walking already so why not dead jenn aiel? Aviendha was after all going to rhuidean.

following your logic, it could have been larine from valan luca traveling circus. the pattern was breaking, so why not? the fact that there's no evidence of the contrary, doesn't make it true. i don't see the point in coming up with far fetched theories involving long dead aiel clan members when the possibility of it being true is so low

Not to mention that at no point do the walking dead acknowledge, notice or interact with the living in any way shape or form.

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Logic states that he swapped his own body.... Now that really is interesting. I'm very interested to know how he didn't even have the strength to stand up yet he did something that would require a ridiculous amount of power. I'm also interested to know how, being in a state of mental delirium, he accomplished this. 

 

 

So would I,so would I.

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So what exactly was Slayer's key role in helping Rand succeed? He was formed from Isam and Luc. Luc went to the Blight because of Gitaro's advice. If he hadn't gone, there wouldn't have been a Slayer (presumably, or it would have been just Isam), but I don't see how it would have had any affect on the Light's victory. He kills wolves, battles Perrin a few times, and eventually gets killed, but I don't recall any major "if Slayer wasn't involved, then character X wouldn't have done Y, and the Shadow could have won". Tigraine would have gone to the Aiel Waste anyway and wound up giving birth to Rand. So why was he sent to the Blight?

How else would Perrin have become so adept a Dreamwalker?  His killing of Lanfear was vital, to be at the right place and right time with the right skills to protect Rand he needed the 'schooling' that Slayer provided.

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 I don't think we know that Rand was in his original body when he left the cave. Given the state of delirium and ehaustion that he must have felt, he may have been carrying his own body on autopilot akin to a soldier in battle that picks up his arm after it was blown off. What good is that going to do?

I think it is a problem because other people saw that scene.

Who else saw that scene? I thought it was just Rand and the "random" old Aiel lady that told him this is what he should do. I suspect that Nynaeve and Moiraine and Thom could have been there, but were they stated to be there?

 

Also, even if they were there, why does it matter if they saw? Did Rand say anything to these observers? Why did they not notice the "random" old Aiel lady?

 

I'm at work right now so I don't have my book. It's important to me but I don't carry it with me all the time. :)

Edited by Rhiadon

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Unless there's some discussion of this in the last book, Perrin's leadership abilities aren't a result of his ta'veren nature, but inherent to himself.  It was only his ta'veren nature which brought those qualities to the surface.  Thus, the fact that he may no longer be ta'veren will not affect his abilities as a leader, which were always there within him.

 

As far as Mat's luck is concerned, he himself thinks that it is tied to the Shadar Logoth dagger.  If he's right, the fact that he's no longer ta'veren may have no effect on his luck.

 

Since this is a full-spoiler forum... 

 

Perrin's leadership abilities have absolutely no bearing whatsoever in aMoL; Perrin's role in aMoL is 100% tel'aran'rhiod-based. 

 

And if Mat's luck is tied to the Shadar Logoth dagger, well, he's equally screwed since that dissolves and disappears from the world. 

 

Point being, I think if Perrin's statement that they're no longer ta'veren is accurate, Mat's battle luck is gone, and far from just losing at dice, he's going to take a gamble on the battlefield and lose, badly, pretty early on in the Seanchan consolidation. Therefore, I'm just going to assume that Perrin was mistaken in that, and that it was only the colors-swirling-in-the-head thing that was gone -- after all, that didn't become a thing until long after they were already ta'veren.

I disagree with this. What you are not taking into account is the battle experience Mat has from all the memories he recieved. While his luck may not be as strong as it was while Ta'veren, he still posseses the combined military experience of hundreds of generals. He will probably continue to be a very good battlefield commander. Edited by Aposar01

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Three thoughts:

 

Gaidal Cain could be the baby Logain handed back to it's mother after saving the refugees at the ruins in the Field of Merrilor. I've always thought it was Grady's son after the mention of how ugly the kid is though.

 

I think that Rand swapped bodies with Moridin sometime during the use of Callandor after the vision fest with the Dark One. "All that he is can be seized..." It was Rand carrying his discarded body out of the pit, he needed it to pull off his "death".

 

Nakomi could be a Hero of the Horn. It is unclear if Aviendha was in TAR when she met Nakomi on her way to Rhuidean, and the worlds as Shayol Ghul have always been blurred, the horn had been sounded so she could easily have been there in that fashion also. And when Avi asks Bair about it Bair says that Nakomi is an "ancient" name. Like out of a story perhaps?

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there are no more jenn aiel.

of course there aren't. The pattern was breaking at that time. dead we're walking already so why not dead jenn aiel? Aviendha was after all going to rhuidean.

I think I saw someone speculate that the columns in Rhuidean ARE the Jenn Aiel, transformed in a process like Egwene and M'Hael were transformed.

 

Now all someone has to do is create access keys to tap the power embedded in the Egwene and M'Hael crystals and, volia, we have the two great sa'angreals for the coming age.

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Few pages back someone brought up Hawkwing talk with Tuon, which is by the way one of the thing I'd pay  to read, but it occurred to me that  Hawkwing can't simply tell her to stop leashing Chanelers because she will immediately assume it's a trick by one of the Aes sedai, honestly,  I'd think that myself.

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Wow, one of the better Q&A's we've seen in a along time.

 

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/brandon-sandersons-wheel-of-time-answers-from-torchat

 

Some great stuff there, just some of the examples.

 

 

Not even Brandon knows what’s going with Rand’s pipe-lighting at the end of A Memory of Light. “I put it in as RJ instructed, and I know nothing more about it than fandom does, I’m afraid.”

 

Regarding Nakomi: “With all of the homages to global myths/legends in WoT is it fair to consider Nakomi as a Wandering Jew/Jenn?” Brandon’s response: “That’s a very clever question that nobody has yet asked me. I’m not going to say more, however.”

 

Cadsuane does end up being the next Amyrlin.

 

The Oath Rod is still used by the Aes Sedai as their organization heads into the Fourth Age. The male channelers do not use it and should not be considered Aes Sedai, as per Jordan’s notes, but a gender-united Aes Sedai will come again someday.

 

 

Rand doesn’t know the Song and the Tinkers wouldn’t accept anything he taught them anyhow.

Robert Jordan specifically noted that the Tinkers would not find their Song by the end of the series and that the Ogier song of growing is not the Tinkers’ Song. The Song is “a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.”

 

There were no substantial notes left about doing a new series focused in Seanchan, and Brandon further feels that to do such a series would be exploiting RJ’s legacy.

 

On the offscreen conversation between Tuon and Hawkwing: “It was interesting, I’ll tell you that much.”

 

 

Moiraine’s prophecied purpose during the Last Battle was to stop Egwene and Rand from going to The Last Battle separately instead of together.

 

Taim was recruited by the Forsaken, so his becoming a Darkfriend happened after the Forsaken were freed from the Bore.

Edited by Suttree

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Wow, one of the better Q&A's we've seen in a along time.

 

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/brandon-sandersons-wheel-of-time-answers-from-torchat

 

Some great stuff there, just some of the examples.

 

 

 

Ah, at least that clarifies the Broken Wolf. I have a feeling Nakomi is like Tom Bombadil- an intentional mystery that will never be solved -_- unlike TomBom though there isn't much proof in the text to disprove some of the theories discussed. I'm off to re-read those dark prophecies!

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It is too bad that there are several important points that BS does not have the permission to answer :(

 

At the very least we will have Rivers of Soul, though!

Edited by esvath

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So the general topic of Nakomi is far beyond interesting. Made more interesting by the fact that Brandon has been forbidden from talking about it. Does it warrant it's own thread of discussion? There seem to be several threads of discussion going on in this thread and it's gets a smidge jumbled. I'm not allowed to make a thread or I'd do it myself.

 

Particularly, I'd like to start talking about the obvious similarities to the Song of Hiawatha. There's more than just the name Nokomis/Nakomi. It might help dredge up clues if we start laying them out.

Edited by Rhiadon

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Hopefully the subject of Nakomi will be covered in the Encyclopedia.  There is just no reason not to tell fans after all of this time, especially if they never plan to publish more books.

 

 

But about that...  This is one thing that has me miffed.  I totally understand wanting to respect RJ's wishes.  I have the utmost respect for the man myself; he has changed my life over the 17 years I've been reading this series. But do you REALLY think there won't be more books in the future? 

 

 Let's be real, people. Put it this way...  George Lucas said there would never be another Star Wars sequel trilogy.  Guess what?  We're getting another Star Wars trilogy (like it or not).   Fandom (demand + money) eventually wins out, every time. 

 

 It will probably be years, until the movies or TV series' are eventually made.  It might even have to wait for whomever inherits the estate someday from Harriet. But eventually someone is going to write more Wheel of Time books.  They don't have to be in RJ's "voice". They can be written by supplemental authors. I'll take it either way.

 

 But my point is, this is a franchise, and after 24 years, just like Star Wars, the Wheel of Time belongs to the fans, now. 

 

 Feel free to disagree. Think there will NEVER be more stories in the WoT universe?  ;-)

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There never will and there never should be. The WoT is far above Star Wars or D&D type shared world dross. This was a living, breathing universe. It had depth, it had high quality prose, it was richly detailed and one could fully immerse themselves in the story. Those qualities have already been sacrificed enough in these last three books. Respect his wishes and protect his legacy, don't ever let the quality of writing drop as it inevitably would. It would be just a terrible idea all around.

 

RJ was the Creator, there is no source material and he didn't want anyone else writing in his world. He was very clear about that in numerous interviews and Team Jordan has made the right call here. It wasn't until the very end that he even consented to give us the ending despite his misgivings. The man gave us his life's work and we should all repay that goodwill by respecting his wishes.

Edited by Suttree

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I'm sorry if this seems out of place, but I was responding to the question of the "Big Un-noticed thing" that  Sanderson mentioned after MOL..

 

   I think  that there may actually be two" big un-noticed things". Remember when Artur Hawkwing said that Mat had died twice and was saved by Rand, but the second time he hadn't noticed it? Remember, that the fact that he had died that second time  was crucial because that was why Olver was able to sound the horn?  Well, way back in  TSR Mat gets hanged and Rand saves him..That's the first time he dies (and everyone remembers that one), but Hawkwing said that it didn't count; that it was the second death that was crucial. That had me wracking my brains trying to remeber a second time  that Rand saved Mat in such a way that it went un-noticed and thenit struck me, the attack by the darkhound...Remember that Mat had been drooled on and that it had been itching., but stopped after Rand balefired the hound? Well, if memory serves, Moraine mentioned in passing that without the balefire Mat would have been dead, but because the balefire had ben so strong, it destroyed the hound before it had  bitten/drooled on Mat...That was the second , unoticed time that severed Mat from the horn.

 

At least that make sense to me..I hope..

 

tud 

Edited by Tud

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Does anyone else think that if Sanderson had to do the three billy goats Gruff thing with Demi, that the third swordsman should have been Tam killing him with either Justice or a quarter staff? Why else have the comments from Dem about Gawyn needing to be the sword, Rand giving Justice to Tam, then the scene with how Tam was a new level of Oneness with the void. Seemed like a total waste.

Edited by Logun

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