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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)


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2 of Avi's children had black hair due to LTT.

No way. The only thing left from LTT is his soul and his memories. There is no DNA left to pass on genetic traits.

Yup you are right... they were fathered after TLB... using Moridin's body.  hehe i didn't think that through.

 

or.... the genes were passed down from Tigraine's line or maybe not even that?  There have been a few dark haired Aiel in the series.

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I didn't see pages 10-13 on this topic, so I apologize if someone mentioned this already, but as for why Rand can't channel after switching bodies, I don't think it has anything to do with him or Moridin getting burned out in the Last Battle.  I've seen people commenting that it's weird because Moridin could channel, but I don't believe that he could.  Ever since Ishamael came back in his new Moridin body, it's been commented by numerous people (other Forsaken) that he has been channeling the True Power for everything.  We never see him use sai'din (that I can remember) after coming back as Moridin.  My guess would be that Rand can't channel now because Moridin couldn't - and with the Dark One sealed away the True Power is as well, leaving him unable to weave anything.... except, perhaps, the Pattern.

 

As far as Artur Hawkwing's discussion with Tuon... I don't know how adamantly opposed to the damane he would be... as I recall he was none too fond of Aes Sedai himself, and was famous for trying to lay siege to Tar Valon.  I think the struggle with the damane is one that arises in a context different from our own world... the question of "How does a society react when some members of its populace are gifted with incredible power?"  On the mainland, those people rule (in practice if not in theory, since even kings bow to the Amyrlin seat), in Seanchan, they were enslaved to keep their power in check.  It creates a sort of yin/yang situation within the world... two different responses to the same question.  In a lot of ways, it's really not all that much different from the culture clash between the Catholic Church and the Hindu caste system.  Understanding is difficult because they're approaching the issue from completely different worldviews.  Those aren't issues that get tidily resolved, and I'm glad.  If a thousand years of worldview where overturned because of an encounter with Egwene, or even Artur Hawkwing, it would stretch the imagination... I think it's for the best that it's an issue left to the future.

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I didn't see pages 10-13 on this topic, so I apologize if someone mentioned this already, but as for why Rand can't channel after switching bodies, I don't think it has anything to do with him or Moridin getting burned out in the Last Battle.  I've seen people commenting that it's weird because Moridin could channel, but I don't believe that he could.  Ever since Ishamael came back in his new Moridin body, it's been commented by numerous people (other Forsaken) that he has been channeling the True Power for everything.  We never see him use sai'din (that I can remember) after coming back as Moridin.  My guess would be that Rand can't channel now because Moridin couldn't - and with the Dark One sealed away the True Power is as well, leaving him unable to weave anything.... except, perhaps, the Pattern.

I am sure someone else can help me out but I have a vague recollection of Moridin having been observed sensing male channeling of Saidin. 

 

I also dug this up from a different forum in the attempt to confirm what I am saying:

 

TITLE: Path of Daggers, CHAPTER: 2 - Unweaving 

 

From behind a screen of white wrought iron, Moridin watched the last of the horses vanish through the gateway, and then the tall young woman and the four Warders. It was possible they were carrying away some item he could use—an angreal attuned to men, perhaps—but the chances were small. For the rest, the ter'angreal, the greatest likelihood was that they would kill themselves trying to puzzle out how to use them. Sammael was a fool to have risked so much to seize a collection of no one knew what, then, Sammael had never been half as clever as he thought.

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Isn't the ability to channel determined by the soul?  I suppose the body has something to do with it, since I seem to recall it was confirmed that whether you're a sparker or a learner isn't based on the soul but varies from rebirth to rebirth.  Like maybe a certain gene or part of the brain or whatever.  Either way it's irrelevant if Moridin has been confirmed to channel saidin.

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I didn't see pages 10-13 on this topic, so I apologize if someone mentioned this already, but as for why Rand can't channel after switching bodies, I don't think it has anything to do with him or Moridin getting burned out in the Last Battle.  I've seen people commenting that it's weird because Moridin could channel, but I don't believe that he could.  Ever since Ishamael came back in his new Moridin body, it's been commented by numerous people (other Forsaken) that he has been channeling the True Power for everything.  We never see him use sai'din (that I can remember) after coming back as Moridin.  My guess would be that Rand can't channel now because Moridin couldn't - and with the Dark One sealed away the True Power is as well, leaving him unable to weave anything.... except, perhaps, the Pattern.

 

As far as Artur Hawkwing's discussion with Tuon... I don't know how adamantly opposed to the damane he would be... as I recall he was none too fond of Aes Sedai himself, and was famous for trying to lay siege to Tar Valon.  I think the struggle with the damane is one that arises in a context different from our own world... the question of "How does a society react when some members of its populace are gifted with incredible power?"  On the mainland, those people rule (in practice if not in theory, since even kings bow to the Amyrlin seat), in Seanchan, they were enslaved to keep their power in check.  It creates a sort of yin/yang situation within the world... two different responses to the same question.  In a lot of ways, it's really not all that much different from the culture clash between the Catholic Church and the Hindu caste system.  Understanding is difficult because they're approaching the issue from completely different worldviews.  Those aren't issues that get tidily resolved, and I'm glad.  If a thousand years of worldview where overturned because of an encounter with Egwene, or even Artur Hawkwing, it would stretch the imagination... I think it's for the best that it's an issue left to the future.

 

Rand specifically thought while he was sealing the dark one that the amount of power he held would burn him out the moment he released it, and channeling is connected to the soul, not the body.  So basically it is highly likely that Rand merely burned himself out in order to complete the seal, or perhaps during the body swap.

 

Hawkwing hated Aes Sedai, but it was because of lies that Moridin planted in his head, I personally suspect some form of minor compulsion was used.  His TAR self is probably well aware that he was being manipulated for 20 years by one of the Forsaken, and he probably regrets the actions he took at that time, as they were not truly his own.  I think that Hawkwing would not change Tuon immediately, but that it would help her continue on the path (That she has already begun on it is clear enough after she never stopped Mat from making them call them Aes Sedai).  I half think that if someone explained just how much longer she could live Tuon would channel intentionally - what better way to strengthen the empire than to give it a ruler who is not only nearly unkillable, but who will live for centuries?

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Except the basis of the Seachan empire is the use of the damane as offensive weapons.That is said again and again.Now that she needs to reconquer the mainland she cannot give up the damane. In fact considering that Tuon has no problem in even tearing up the dragon's peace a document she signed for the "good of the empire" there is no way she will let her power be diminished in any way.

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Except the basis of the Seachan empire is the use of the damane as offensive weapons.That is said again and again.Now that she needs to reconquer the mainland she cannot give up the damane. In fact considering that Tuon has no problem in even tearing up the dragon's peace a document she signed for the "good of the empire" there is no way she will let her power be diminished in any way.

 

i agree that she will probably not release the damanes in a near future as they are too much important for the seanchan empire  ... but i was very surprised when she said that she was not bound by the dragon's peace as it is totally opposed at all seanchan's behaviors we had seen previouly ( what they think of oathbreakers + Avi's vision + Tuon not escaping from Mat ) ...

 

for the body swap and the fact that Rand can no more channel , i think that he has done this in the same way he has lit his pipe ... he has thought it was the right thing and then it was done ...

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3. Generic disappointment with Shara being used. Remember joking years ago about thousands of silk clad channelers appearing out of the blue.

Also, given Graendal's connection with Shara, how can she not know about Bao the Wyld?

4. Who on Seanchan is Krisa the assassin-hiring, gray man user? The "usurper" - is she Tuon's sister? Wasn't the entire royal family wiped out?

 

 

3. Myself, I loved the Shara bit. It was incredibly amazing and badass of Demandred to go and get an entire continent on his side. Off screen, fine, but that just made the revelation more awesome. 

4. I assumed that the Gray Men were send by the Shadow, and I seem to have completely missed "Krisa". Like, I don't remember the name being used in the book, at any point.

 

I think Rand will let know Tam he's alive, sooner or later. Maybe even Perrin or Mat, who knows. I kinda felt sorry for Elayne though - now she'scompletely alone, except for Rand popping in every once in a while and her mother (I think. Was Morgase at all in the book?) as Brigitte and Gawyn are dead. It's sad - I foresee Overprotective Mom. Poor kids. 

 

Also, to all of you who complain that the Seanchan storyline wasn't resolved - of course it wasn't. You don't change an entire culture in a few weeks, you need years. That's why RJ planned the outrigger novels, and it would have been kind of foolish to expect the entire situation done with by the end of the book. we're talking something huge here, after all. 

 

I'm freakishly curious about Moghedien - is she going to reveal herself in hope to get some small misure of influence, or would it be too big of a gamble for her? What about her cour'sova (not so sure about the spelling). I'm pretty sure sul'dam burns their damane's old belongings. 

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earlier people speculated that Brigette would be reborn as Elaine' s baby... I was pretty sure that she would be reborn as Mellonie' s baby.  she' s referred to as being really pregnant several times and she isn't' t royalty.

Edited by yllek1
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Hopefully we will get some narrowly directed threads to hash out some of these points with the goal of updating the WOTFAQ now residing at dragonmount.   But for now, I’m going to ignore the pipe-lighting scene, Rand’s expected life-span, etc and speculate post-AMOL per the thread title.

 

In the last scene, Rand is riding off as a wealthy, lone traveler, with the intentions of seeing the world.  He even thinks about doing chores at a farm to earn a night’s rest in the barn.    But how is a lone traveler going to be treated by an average farmer?    How many “travelers” are going to be like Rand and how many are to be like the scavengers we saw on the battlefield?    Rand may find out that it is easy to blend into a crowd in a large city, but not so easy in small villages where everyone knows each other.

 

So what type of cover would let Rand travel anywhere and be easily accepted?    One possibility is to become a merchant aka like Paidin Fain in TEOTW.    Blending the “three on a boat”, Rand’s last thought of finding a ship, and becoming a merchant together leads to the possibility of being a ship owner and traveling from port to port.    Either option would let Rand see the world while blending in.    But the problem with merchant trade would be Elayne’s thought of using the Kin to create gateways and generate revenue for Andor.     I’m sure that the WT and BT will eventually do something along this line….but how long will it take and how thoroughly will they cover Randland?

 

One group that we’ve seen that freely accepts strangers is the Traveling People.   So it’s not so far-fetched to imagine Rand traveling with them to see the world.   This scenario should be appealing for all those whining about finding the Song.

 

My favorite possibility is for Rand to become a glee-man.   He and Mat traveled with Thom early in the series and got some first-hand training.   He played some instrument back then (flute?) and we saw him sing throughout AMOL.   He knows a lot of stories from books, LTT’s memories, and his own.   His pipe-lighting skills should produce some amazing magic tricks.  Best of all, he would be quickly accepted wherever he went.

 

As I’ve said before, anyone who believes that the final pages mean that Rand is going to abandon his girls or his kids should box up their copies of the books and give them to someone with an ounce of imagination.  Rand’s bond with the girls is still active and 2 of them can create a gateway to anywhere at any time.   Look what the four of them have accomplished in saving the world (including the Aiel) by solving problems that existed for thousands of years.  I figure that they can work out the details for “visiting hours”.    

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Not only was Hawkwing's conflict with the Aes Sedai engineered by Ishamael, but it was strongly hinted in the White book that his second  wife, the mother of Luthair and ancestor of Tuon was a channeler, a White Tower initiate not strong enough in OP to become an Aes Sedai. So, yea, I hope that there was a big audience during his little talk with Tuon.

 

Re: societies not changing quickly... well, yes and no. The ta'veren, particularly Rand, did change some societies very quickly indeed during WoT.

 

And even iRL societies sometimes change very quickly. I mean, if you compare political systems and people's ideologies in Europe in 1914 and 1918... yea. Huge, drastic changes.

 

Personally, I was disappointed that Seanchan's faces weren't rubbed into the superiority, both morally and OP-wise of free channelers much more in AMoL. For all you AS haters - don't forget that Seanchan also kill male sparkers. Or, maybe, they still have some copies of the "Sad Bracelets" and know how to produce them now and will start collaring men too, eh?

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1. When Rand was captured whit ad'am he used TRUE POWER to free himself .

 

2. What if Moghedien can  use TRUE POWER also.

 

-  And do you remmeber that TRUE POWER was used first time in "age of legends"  at that moment bore on dark one's prison was created..

 

2+2 = ? :P

 

P.S. this is not theory all those are facts :P

Edited by Detector
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How long will Rand live now? He cannot channel but he can now make things appear just by thinking about it.So he is now close to the Creator or same as Neo in the matrix.I am guessing he lives for ever till he gets bored and thinks of death which will kill him!!

He's not the creator. My theory is that he's working based on his understanding that reality is like TAR too. Now that he saw the Pattern from outside, he understands it better. He's like a waking Dreamwalker. Doubt he'll want to live forever, though.

 

I said, "Close to creator" like his right hand man :)

 

Well I think Rand will live as long as he wants.He basically controls reality which means he can control pretty much anything and everything,Life,Death,Wind,Fire name it.

 

I wish they had not put in the last bit about him generating fire by thought.Either they should have burned him out and allowed him to live his life like a normal man or given him back his ability to channel(not sure how he lost it ayway,the burned out theory seems to have holes all over it as he was in a link). But this,a man who controls reality who is in the real world (Rand being the man he is will eventually come back to his consorts like to know how he keeps tht a secret and will want to see his children etc) is very weak.

 

Easiest would have been to kill him off.Rand made his peace with that long back.

Good point about the children, saving all of existence does not give a man the right to be a dead-beat dad.

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1. When Rand was captured whit ad'am he used TRUE POWER to free himself .

 

2. What if Moghedien can  use TRUE POWER also.

 

-  And do you remmeber that TRUE POWER was used first time in "age of legends"  at that moment bore on dark one's prison was created..

 

2+2 = ? :P

 

P.S. this is not theory all those are facts :P

 

 

You forgot one very important fact.....the Bore is closed and TP is no longer accessible.

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1. When Rand was captured whit ad'am he used TRUE POWER to free himself .

 

2. What if Moghedien can  use TRUE POWER also.

 

-  And do you remmeber that TRUE POWER was used first time in "age of legends"  at that moment bore on dark one's prison was created..

 

2+2 = ? :P

 

P.S. this is not theory all those are facts :P

 

 

You forgot one very important fact.....the Bore is closed and TP is no longer accessible.

 

 

True, but she is alive, and theoretically could had been put into that position to let her be a player for the Outrigger stories (whether they are written or not).

Edited by Carteeg_Struve
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1. When Rand was captured whit ad'am he used TRUE POWER to free himself .

 

2. What if Moghedien can  use TRUE POWER also.

 

-  And do you remmeber that TRUE POWER was used first time in "age of legends"  at that moment bore on dark one's prison was created..

 

2+2 = ? :P

 

P.S. this is not theory all those are facts :P

 

 

You forgot one very important fact.....the Bore is closed and TP is no longer accessible.

 

Wait... the Dark One took all the TP in the world with him when he went?  So he did win a victory of sorts after all... don't shake hands with anyone from that world...

 

 

Sorry, I'm feeling a bit whimsical this evening.

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I can't remember, did Elayne ever realize that her mother was still alive and did Morgase survive the Last Battle?

Some have posited that Morgase died. That she was the blond haired woman thrown over the horse that Mellor sent to the Andor troops to make them think Elayne was dead. While Mellor kneeled over her ready to cut out her babies, Elayne looked at the blond haired woman and thought "Oh no".

 

It doesn't sit well with me that Morgase would be killed in such a trivial way and with no further explanation, but maybe?

Even if Morgase was alive, she was not as critical to Elayne as Birgitte.

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I would imagine that Rand will live until the last of Elayne, Min, or Aviendha dies (obviously, Min will die first unless there's some kind of assassination thing).

 

As I'd expect Elayne or Aviendha to live for several hundred years, and I'd expect Rand to stay alive with them, I'd imagine that any breach of the Dragon's Peace in the next few hundred years will be met by Rand showing up to lay an epic reality-bend smackdown.

 

I think we got enough glimpses in the way-forward ter'angreal in ToM to know generally how science / society will progress (with the exception that we probably won't get the Seanchan v. everybody wars now).

 

My big question: It seems at least somewhat logical that Perrin's thought that he and Rand and Mat are no longer ta'veren is actually true. That's going to epically suck for Mat, since his luck is based on his being ta'veren, and I'd imagine that that's going to result in him dying almost immediately, as he jumps into some situation that relies on him being lucky to get out of, except he's not lucky any more. It will also epically suck for Perrin, since Perrin's ability to lead and unite people is based on his being ta'veren, and since he's now king of Saldaea (probably?), that country is going to go to rack and ruin as soon as he gets in charge. As a result, I'm just going to assume that Perrin was wrong there.

I think they retain their taveren gifts or something. Rand's reality bending now refined and perrin is still pretty much wolfy-ish
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I'm wondering about Tam, his history, his skill with a sword, his knowledge of the void, his ability to lead men. Who was he, entrusted with Rand?

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I'm wondering about Tam, his history, his skill with a sword, his knowledge of the void, his ability to lead men. Who was he, entrusted with Rand?

It wasn't really written in full but Tam fought in the Aiel war, got a Heron marked blade and found Rand at the base of Dragonmount when Tigraine turned Maiden gave birth. I thought he was a warder of some sort, but coming from Two Rivers he might be someone as the books say, a good warrior and leader.

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I'm wondering about Tam, his history, his skill with a sword, his knowledge of the void, his ability to lead men. Who was he, entrusted with Rand?

 

I think that this was one of the planned prequels. However, Tam's fever-talk from Eye of the World gives us the answer to your question. He talks of trying to get away from the stench of death and decay by traveling up the slopes of Dragonmount (probably after a battle). He came across Tigraine, who'd fled up there to give birth, and Rand. Tigraine was dead, but she'd wrapped Rand with her cloak, and it sounds like Rand was near death and was blue with cold. Tam took the child to save him; I don't think he'd decided to keep him yet. Other fever-talk seems to replay his conversation with Kari, saying how they'd always wanted children (and we can assume that they'd been unable to have any up to this point). He wasn't entrusted with Rand, he found him.

 

Anyway, Tam served with Illian's Golden Company. I assume that he was brought out of the Two Rivers by news of the Aiel War. No doubt, as a young man, he wanted some adventure.

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