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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)


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The Sharans have been part of the series since book 1, they have been mentioned in every book since, there were Seanchan spies in Tear at an Inn and they reacted startlingly when they overheard another trader saying Silk comes from worms (this was a Jordan book KoD If I remember, not Sanderson). 

According to Ideal Seek neither Shara or Sharans is referenced in tEotW. Nor are they mentioned in every book after. Although there could be non named references I would like to see why you believe the above? Regardless it most certainly came out of nowhere and threatened to overhwlem the Light v. Shadow aspect. In fact the LB was largely the Light v. Shara which is a problem on a number of levels.

 

People seem to think that Sanderson was "Making" stuff up.  STOP IT... at least read what Sanderson says... he was working directly from the notes, he only used scenes that were in the notes, if he had more room he would have put in more scenes from the notes, not made stuff up. 

You are entirely wrong about this. The notes were not that robust and Sanderson had to creat large portions of the book from scratch. He had to make a number of plot decisions. Keep in mind RJ only had 200 pages worth of written material to spread across these three books. By Brandon's own admission the notes looked like this and he had to create over 50% of the material from scratch without guidance:

 

Brandon

'Well, I am either going to do this, this, or this. I was thinking of this, but it could be this.'

People attack Sanderson for how he wrote Mat, but Sanderson had to get Mat to where he acted like he did in the last 50K words.  You really would have been pissed if he stayed the same till the last 50k words then BAM!!!  Funky PIMP Matt!! 

 

Well even Brandon agrees with this critique so not sure why you would attempt to dispute it. I'll let him say it best.

 

Brandon

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him.

Edited by Suttree
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The soultrap would still work as usual, and Shadowspawn would still live... remember they only dropped dead when the DO was "KILLED" in one of the alternate reality.  The DO still exists, but can no longer directly attack the pattern.

 

2 of Avi's children had black hair due to LTT. He had black hair. Rand was fully integrated at the point he concieved the quads. 2 are Rand's and 2 are LTTs.

Edited by Craig Jarvis
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2 of Avi's children had black hair due to LTT.

No way. The only thing left from LTT is his soul and his memories. There is no DNA left to pass on genetic traits.

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For me there is one big gap, but maybe I read over it or missed/forgot something somewhere.

 

Rands bodyswap occured, and the 3 bonded girls know he is not dead through the bond...

 

How does Alivia know that Rand is still alive? 

I am under the impression that there is an obvious answer, as Rand knows Alivia helped him slip away silently, but I fail to see it...

 

 

 

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About many of the bad parts there's something good about them, for example I liked the body-swap but I didn't liked that we didn't see the details of it or that they didn't let Mat, Perrin, Tam, Nynave or Lan know about it.

 

The part after the last battle chapter felt stressed with the Fain part and no details about the body swap and how did Alivia know?

 

Other things that disturbs me:

 

Rand carried Moridins body out, did they just swap then lying on the ground? Flnn said both were dead. 

 

Logains attitude irritates me, he wasnt not like this before but maybe he was just under stress or sth.

 

Who commanded the trollocs when the 4 captains were under compulsion? Grandael did that too? Maybe she was just multitasking as Demandred must have done.

 

How does Demandred for etc commands the trollocs, commands the sharans and on the same time channels and fight and overviewing the battlefield...?

 

I didnt like how Moridin was waiting for Rand in the cavern, it would have been better if he showed up when Rand started to fight the DO, he could have been a huge asset for the shadow until then. 

 

How big army did the seanchan have? How did they transport the whole army from ebou Dar? I guess they don't link. so the ad'ams must have made many small gateways? 

there must been like 300-500k people in that army? I assume they should basically be as strong as the sharans so I don't understand why Mat just hide them when they should have been the biggest part of the lights army. 

 

Pity Nynave and Moiraine didn't get more screentime. 

 

Everyone was looking forward for Moiraine/Rand/Cadsuane reunion, huge dissapointment there.

 

Moiraine didn't feel so important as I would have expected.

 

And how the hell did they create Callandor it makes no sense that it can be a sa'angreal for the the true power, The DO controls how much of the TP people can channel, so when they made Callandor they must have been able to use TP with the DO's permission and they must have been able to channel more than sufficient for it to be a Sa'angreal and that makes no sense in my eyes.. 

 

I thought Demandred was a badass aswell but I don't like the fact that the it was almost impossible for us to figure it out. 

Loved that therez being wrong thou. :)

 

Good parts:

 

Androl

 

Lan

 

Graendal

 

Mat

 

Rand

 

Egwene - didn't like that she died though.

 
Edited by Jeck
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Ah they had to let one of the main characters go to lessen the hollywood-effect. Should be a shame when it was one of the ta'veren...

 

So after gawyn's dead, I felt this coming. It sucks, she would have been a great amyrlin!

 

But as I read, there is indeed a mystery concerning how Alivia knew... Damn!

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My body-swap theory:

 

When the DO was resealed Moridin was holding the TP at that moment. The sealing caused the TP to be stripped away from Moridin which caused his sould to be stripped from his body at the same time. Rand, being bonded to Moridin, had his sould stripped from his body into Moridin's body at the same time - kind of a flow-on effect. Nynaeve couldn't understand why Rand's body was dying. This was because there was no sould in the body - it was just a shell that couldn't survive without it's soul.

 

The only problem with this would be that Nynaeve would have sensed something wrong with the body. Just like Verin did when she touched the Ogier who had been soul-sucked by Machin Shin.

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The Sharans have been part of the series since book 1, they have been mentioned in every book since, there were Seanchan spies in Tear at an Inn and they reacted startlingly when they overheard another trader saying Silk comes from worms (this was a Jordan book KoD If I remember, not Sanderson). 

According to Ideal Seek neither Shara or Sharans is referenced in tEotW. Nor are they mentioned in every book after. Although there could be non named references I would like to see why you believe the above? Regardless it most certainly came out of nowhere and threatened to overhwlem the Light v. Shadow aspect. In fact the LB was largely the Light v. Shara which is a problem on a number of levels.

 

 

Have to agree with Suttree here. I just don't like the Sharans appearing out of nowhere. If we had heard of a person (Bao) establishing order after news of the Dragon tore apart Shara (in book 3 I think), prior to aMoL I wouldn't object as much.

 

Also, I seem to remember the Sharan in Tear (that spoke of silk worms) having a very musical tone while talking. The description of Sharans in aMoL had them as very monotone. Am I missing something?

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I have seen some mention of the Finns being at the LB (hinted at when Perrin is fighting Slayer), and the theory that the location of the Tower of Ghenjei being near Mantheren/Shadar Logoth is not a coincidence. Is it believed that the Finns had a motivation in helping Mat to ensure he would be able to kill Fain and prevent Mordeth/Mashadar from getting into the spaces between worlds?

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The Sharans have been part of the series since book 1, they have been mentioned in every book since, there were Seanchan spies in Tear at an Inn and they reacted startlingly when they overheard another trader saying Silk comes from worms (this was a Jordan book KoD If I remember, not Sanderson). 

According to Ideal Seek neither Shara or Sharans is referenced in tEotW. Nor are they mentioned in every book after. Although there could be non named references I would like to see why you believe the above? Regardless it most certainly came out of nowhere and threatened to overhwlem the Light v. Shadow aspect. In fact the LB was largely the Light v. Shara which is a problem on a number of levels.

 

Have to agree with Suttree here. I just don't like the Sharans appearing out of nowhere. If we had heard of a person (Bao) establishing order after news of the Dragon tore apart Shara (in book 3 I think), prior to aMoL I wouldn't object as much.

 

Also, I seem to remember the Sharan in Tear (that spoke of silk worms) having a very musical tone while talking. The description of Sharans in aMoL had them as very monotone. Am I missing something?

 

There was rumored war in Shara at some point in the series. We can infer that it has to do with Demandred. We could have done with a few more mentions, though. I think if there was ANY mention of prophecies being fulfilled over there people would have instantly put two-and-two together and unmasked Demandred too early, so it would have to be far vaguer than that. Prior to AMoL, I was wary about including the Sharans this late in the game. It didn't bother while reading AMoL, though. I actually thought it was kind of cool.

 

As for Alivia, it's clear that Rand planned on the body-swap. That was no surprise for him. We should have been given a hint that he'd met with Alivia though. Sometime in ToM or even this book. Don't include the conversation, but have a POV character find him ending a conversation with her. In the epilogue we could infer what it was about. Even so, Alivia knew because Rand planned it with her. That's the only logical explanation. Rand wasn't surprised by the body-swap, and Alivia knew. 

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@Vels

 

Problem with that theory is that at the funeral pyre, Rand states that Moridin is beeing buried with full honors. If the body that was beeing burnt didn't have Moridins soul, why would he think that is was him?

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The Sharans have been part of the series since book 1, they have been mentioned in every book since, there were Seanchan spies in Tear at an Inn and they reacted startlingly when they overheard another trader saying Silk comes from worms (this was a Jordan book KoD If I remember, not Sanderson).

According to Ideal Seek neither Shara or Sharans is referenced in tEotW. Nor are they mentioned in every book after. Although there could be non named references I would like to see why you believe the above? Regardless it most certainly came out of nowhere and threatened to overhwlem the Light v. Shadow aspect. In fact the LB was largely the Light v. Shara which is a problem on a number of levels.

 

Have to agree with Suttree here. I just don't like the Sharans appearing out of nowhere. If we had heard of a person (Bao) establishing order after news of the Dragon tore apart Shara (in book 3 I think), prior to aMoL I wouldn't object as much.

 

Also, I seem to remember the Sharan in Tear (that spoke of silk worms) having a very musical tone while talking. The description of Sharans in aMoL had them as very monotone. Am I missing something?

There was rumored war in Shara at some point in the series. We can infer that it has to do with Demandred. We could have done with a few more mentions, though. I think if there was ANY mention of prophecies being fulfilled over there people would have instantly put two-and-two together and unmasked Demandred too early, so it would have to be far vaguer than that. Prior to AMoL, I was wary about including the Sharans this late in the game. It didn't bother while reading AMoL, though. I actually thought it was kind of cool.

Why would we infer Demandred when it was Graendal stealing the rulers that threw the country into chaos and started it all?

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We don't know that it was Graendal that threw the country into chaos. She likely contributed to a vacumn in power there and maybe Damandred took advantage of it or maybe he was already there manipulating them when Graendal grabbed some of their leaders. Damandred and Graendal did not like each other and did not work together and Damandred had more favor with the DO than Graendal. He kept his plans secret so that likely only the DO and Moridin knew. For me this was awesome. He subjugated a whole country and no-one else found out.

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One thing that bothers me is that as far as everybody except the Harem, Alivia, and Cadsuane knows, Rand is toast and Moridin is the DO's right hand. Suddenly, Moridin up and walks away. Wouldn't he instantly become the #1 fugitive in Randland? Shouldn't all channelers in the world receive orders to blast Morandin on sight with extreme prejudice?

Edited by probe907
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@wintermute

 

To add to the Rand = Creator

 

1) Everyone in WOT knows that the creator created and sealed the DO in his prison at the moment of creation. What Rand did

2) WoT uses a lot of twists and changes to our myths and histories because the Wheel turns. In Genesis, God wills light into being, "Fiat Lux". Rand also wills light into being, to light his pipe. Who knows, in 3000 years, people may believe the Creator's first act is 'Let there be light', instead of 'let my pipe be lit.

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I think that it was Shaidar Haran that led the Shadows forces against the four generals, and Moridin killed Shaidar Haran on the DO's orders just as Rand saw him in the Pit of Doom

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We don't know that it was Graendal that threw the country into chaos.

Yes we do. It was her throwing off the divine "seven year" cycle by stealing the rulers that started it all.

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We don't know that it was Graendal that threw the country into chaos. She likely contributed to a vacumn in power there and maybe Damandred took advantage of it or maybe he was already there manipulating them when Graendal grabbed some of their leaders. Damandred and Graendal did not like each other and did not work together and Damandred had more favor with the DO than Graendal. He kept his plans secret so that likely only the DO and Moridin knew. For me this was awesome. He subjugated a whole country and no-one else found out.

The chaos from their leaderss turning up missing might of started the chaos that let demandred to appear and start fulfilling prophicies.  As the Aiel alway said the sharans lie about everything so they had no way of knowing if the rumors of fighting in Shara were even true or not. 

 

The Sharans being the main army sort of botherred me too.  I liked the sharans showing up but did seem to focus a bit too much on them.  Where were the DF's rising up, where were the shadowspawn appearing in the southern nations and fighting.  All of Rands trapping waygates was for nothing.  Just seems like half of Randland was left out of the war and the southern nations are a lot better off now then the northern nations.

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Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.  So my dream of seeing Bao the Wyld's heroic quest to fulfill prophecy and lead the Sharans to the Last Battle rests on a knife edge.

 

Actually, your dream will probably come true: it is confirmed that the POV in the deleted scenes from AMoL, that WILL be featured in the book UNFETTERED, is Demandred's. I imagine his quests will be exactly what we'll read about. :)

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We don't know that it was Graendal that threw the country into chaos. She likely contributed to a vacumn in power there and maybe Damandred took advantage of it or maybe he was already there manipulating them when Graendal grabbed some of their leaders. Damandred and Graendal did not like each other and did not work together and Damandred had more favor with the DO than Graendal. He kept his plans secret so that likely only the DO and Moridin knew. For me this was awesome. He subjugated a whole country and no-one else found out.

The chaos from their leaderss turning up missing might of started the chaos that let demandred to appear and start fulfilling prophicies.  As the Aiel alway said the sharans lie about everything so they had no way of knowing if the rumors of fighting in Shara were even true or not. 

 

The Sharans being the main army sort of botherred me too.  I liked the sharans showing up but did seem to focus a bit too much on them.  Where were the DF's rising up, where were the shadowspawn appearing in the southern nations and fighting.  All of Rands trapping waygates was for nothing.  Just seems like half of Randland was left out of the war and the southern nations are a lot better off now then the northern nations.

Shara in the maps is as big as the wetlands and the waste together if we make the assumption that they have same population density, they would be slightly more than the armies of light. With the trolocks giving the sure advantage. The Seanchan was very small boost numberwize, cause their armies were mainly the locals from altara, amadicia etc. The only good was that the damane equalize the numbers of channelers the light had against the Sharans and the darkfriends. As for the darkfriends the biggest part remain as spies in the light. For example the guards who betrayed Caemlyn and Aravine and they gave some very strong blows!

Edited by tsoxt
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One thing that I would LOVE to  know is how some our most knowledgeable posters could have been so wrong on their predictions that Nynaeve would pull Rand out of TAR after a death. Were the foreshadowing used for that prediction so ambiguous? Also the predictions that Nynaeve would heal someone thats been dead 3 days

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One thing that I would LOVE to  know is how some our most knowledgeable posters could have been so wrong on their predictions that Nynaeve would pull Rand out of TAR after a death. Were the foreshadowing used for that prediction so ambiguous? Also the predictions that Nynaeve would heal someone thats been dead 3 days

We've known for over a decade that "he who is dead yet lives". The two most common theories were always:

1) Fake Rand's death

2) Nyn kicking him out of TAR like Brigette

 

At most, only one of those could be correct.

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One thing that I would LOVE to  know is how some our most knowledgeable posters could have been so wrong on their predictions that Nynaeve would pull Rand out of TAR after a death. Were the foreshadowing used for that prediction so ambiguous? Also the predictions that Nynaeve would heal someone thats been dead 3 days

 

A good author will of course foreshadow what he's going to do, but for major things like this it's probably-wise to throw out some red-herrings. No doubt we were supposed to suspect some of these other things, otherwise it would have been too straightforward.

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