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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)


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It occurred to me that this was a topic that isn't really covered by any of the threads. So, here you go. :)

There's simply so much! First question: How long before the Oath Rod goes away? They elected Cadsuane Amyrlin, and Cadsuane is near her death. If there's anyone who would hear the info on the Oath Rod, and simply refuse to die holding on to it, its Cadsuane. And as Amyrlin, she'll be able to smack sense, liberally. I suspect the OR will be soon gone, and with it, Egwene's stopgap solution for the Kin.

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How long before the peace of the Dragon gives way before natural impulses? I'd say by the first fifty-sixty years there'd be serious low-simmering tensions and then stuff blows up into a big conflagration.

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How long will Rand live now? He cannot channel but he can now make things appear just by thinking about it.So he is now close to the Creator or same as Neo in the matrix.I am guessing he lives for ever till he gets bored and thinks of death which will kill him!!

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How long will Rand live now? He cannot channel but he can now make things appear just by thinking about it.So he is now close to the Creator or same as Neo in the matrix.I am guessing he lives for ever till he gets bored and thinks of death which will kill him!!

He's not the creator. My theory is that he's working based on his understanding that reality is like TAR too. Now that he saw the Pattern from outside, he understands it better. He's like a waking Dreamwalker. Doubt he'll want to live forever, though.

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"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

Tuon frowned. The explosions reflected in her dark eyes. "I'm with child," she said. "The Doomseer has confirmed it."

 

Post-AMoL crack theory: Egwene will be reborn as Mat and Tuon's child.

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How long will Rand live now? He cannot channel but he can now make things appear just by thinking about it.So he is now close to the Creator or same as Neo in the matrix.I am guessing he lives for ever till he gets bored and thinks of death which will kill him!!

He's not the creator. My theory is that he's working based on his understanding that reality is like TAR too. Now that he saw the Pattern from outside, he understands it better. He's like a waking Dreamwalker. Doubt he'll want to live forever, though.

 

I said, "Close to creator" like his right hand man :)

 

Well I think Rand will live as long as he wants.He basically controls reality which means he can control pretty much anything and everything,Life,Death,Wind,Fire name it.

 

I wish they had not put in the last bit about him generating fire by thought.Either they should have burned him out and allowed him to live his life like a normal man or given him back his ability to channel(not sure how he lost it ayway,the burned out theory seems to have holes all over it as he was in a link). But this,a man who controls reality who is in the real world (Rand being the man he is will eventually come back to his consorts like to know how he keeps tht a secret and will want to see his children etc) is very weak.

 

Easiest would have been to kill him off.Rand made his peace with that long back.

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Well I think Rand will live as long as he wants.He basically controls reality which means he can control pretty much anything and everything,Life,Death,Wind,Fire name it.

 

I wish they had not put in the last bit about him generating fire by thought.Either they should have burned him out and allowed him to live his life like a normal man or given him back his ability to channel(not sure how he lost it ayway,the burned out theory seems to have holes all over it as he was in a link). But this,a man who controls reality who is in the real world (Rand being the man he is will eventually come back to his consorts like to know how he keeps tht a secret and will want to see his children etc) is very weak.

This whole end-sequence reminds me of what happens to David Bowman at the conclusion to ."2001 A Space Odyssey."

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I would imagine that Rand will live until the last of Elayne, Min, or Aviendha dies (obviously, Min will die first unless there's some kind of assassination thing). 

 

As I'd expect Elayne or Aviendha to live for several hundred years, and I'd expect Rand to stay alive with them, I'd imagine that any breach of the Dragon's Peace in the next few hundred years will be met by Rand showing up to lay an epic reality-bend smackdown. 

 

I think we got enough glimpses in the way-forward ter'angreal in ToM to know generally how science / society will progress (with the exception that we probably won't get the Seanchan v. everybody wars now). 

 

My big question: It seems at least somewhat logical that Perrin's thought that he and Rand and Mat are no longer ta'veren is actually true. That's going to epically suck for Mat, since his luck is based on his being ta'veren, and I'd imagine that that's going to result in him dying almost immediately, as he jumps into some situation that relies on him being lucky to get out of, except he's not lucky any more. It will also epically suck for Perrin, since Perrin's ability to lead and unite people is based on his being ta'veren, and since he's now king of Saldaea (probably?), that country is going to go to rack and ruin as soon as he gets in charge. As a result, I'm just going to assume that Perrin was wrong there. 

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I would imagine that Rand will live until the last of Elayne, Min, or Aviendha dies (obviously, Min will die first unless there's some kind of assassination thing). 

 

As I'd expect Elayne or Aviendha to live for several hundred years, and I'd expect Rand to stay alive with them, I'd imagine that any breach of the Dragon's Peace in the next few hundred years will be met by Rand showing up to lay an epic reality-bend smackdown. 

 

I think we got enough glimpses in the way-forward ter'angreal in ToM to know generally how science / society will progress (with the exception that we probably won't get the Seanchan v. everybody wars now). 

 

My big question: It seems at least somewhat logical that Perrin's thought that he and Rand and Mat are no longer ta'veren is actually true. That's going to epically suck for Mat, since his luck is based on his being ta'veren, and I'd imagine that that's going to result in him dying almost immediately, as he jumps into some situation that relies on him being lucky to get out of, except he's not lucky any more. It will also epically suck for Perrin, since Perrin's ability to lead and unite people is based on his being ta'veren, and since he's now king of Saldaea (probably?), that country is going to go to rack and ruin as soon as he gets in charge. As a result, I'm just going to assume that Perrin was wrong there. 

 

Good points especially the one with Mat.Perrin has enough help to run Saldea,doubtful if he will be fighting any more wars. Mat on the other hand is going to live in the Seachan culture with assasinations all over the place.

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Unless there's some discussion of this in the last book, Perrin's leadership abilities aren't a result of his ta'veren nature, but inherent to himself.  It was only his ta'veren nature which brought those qualities to the surface.  Thus, the fact that he may no longer be ta'veren will not affect his abilities as a leader, which were always there within him.

 

As far as Mat's luck is concerned, he himself thinks that it is tied to the Shadar Logoth dagger.  If he's right, the fact that he's no longer ta'veren may have no effect on his luck.

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Unless there's some discussion of this in the last book, Perrin's leadership abilities aren't a result of his ta'veren nature, but inherent to himself.  It was only his ta'veren nature which brought those qualities to the surface.  Thus, the fact that he may no longer be ta'veren will not affect his abilities as a leader, which were always there within him.

 

As far as Mat's luck is concerned, he himself thinks that it is tied to the Shadar Logoth dagger.  If he's right, the fact that he's no longer ta'veren may have no effect on his luck.

 

Since this is a full-spoiler forum... 

 

Perrin's leadership abilities have absolutely no bearing whatsoever in aMoL; Perrin's role in aMoL is 100% tel'aran'rhiod-based. 

 

And if Mat's luck is tied to the Shadar Logoth dagger, well, he's equally screwed since that dissolves and disappears from the world. 

 

Point being, I think if Perrin's statement that they're no longer ta'veren is accurate, Mat's battle luck is gone, and far from just losing at dice, he's going to take a gamble on the battlefield and lose, badly, pretty early on in the Seanchan consolidation. Therefore, I'm just going to assume that Perrin was mistaken in that, and that it was only the colors-swirling-in-the-head thing that was gone -- after all, that didn't become a thing until long after they were already ta'veren.

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I should clarify.

 

In tDR, Mat notes that his luck didn't manifest until after he was separated from the Shadar Logoth dagger.  Something about that dagger changed him, even after he was no longer connected to it.  If Mat is right, neither the fact that he is no longer ta'varen nor the fact that the dagger has been destroyed will have an effect on his luck.  Moreover, much of Mat's skill on the battlefied comes from his memories of old battles, so unless those are gone too he is still a force to be reckoned with, even without his luck.

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This is why I am such a roleplaying geek.  You can play out all sorta of different scenarios.  And because of this alone, I'm glad there are things left unfinished. :D

 

Anyways, I predict the Seanchan slowly fading into obscurity, then to myth, then forgotten altogether.  Will damane still exist?  In a sense.  But I see it as a form of punishment for channelers for crimes that don't warrant stilling or death.  Also raises a question.  Can a'dams be used on men by other men or only women?  I know if a man tries to control a woman it kills them both, but it's never been tried with two men that I know of.  Anyways, I see the Seanchan(The ones in Randland anyway) intergrating into the other cultures and the land they currently control eventually becoming seperate again, albeit different than they were pre-return.

 

I akso see the Children of Light regrowing into a virtuous organization, perhaps even merging Mayene, and becoming something people love instead of fear.

 

I also see a large alliance between Andor and the Borderlands.  We got one already with Saldaea and Andor/Cairhien via Perrin, and with Malier reforming, no doubt the other borderlands will follow them, and with Ny being from the TR, she is likely to to strike an accord with Elayne and the others would follow suit.

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The POWER of the DR was beyond the Creator and Shai'tan at one point, able to destroy Shai'tan.  Now he can bend reality to his will.

 

I was surprised at how easily he toyed with Shai'tan at the end. 

 

 

I hope we see a few novels set 20-100 years from AMOL, I would love to read them. 

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I doubt there will be any.  It's possible they might change their minds, but I doubt it.  But it doesn't matter to me.  I got a few friends on an RP site and we come up with some pretty exciting stuff.

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On the issue of thinking the pipe lit etc, there are a couple of explanations:

 

  1. Madness.  There is no pipe!
  2. The pattern and/or creator decided this guy did his job and did it well, so essentially every day should be March 14th for him from here out, insofar as he wishes for it.
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Here's a somewhat bizarre theory......

 

Nakomi was the woman that met Rand as he carried Moridin out of the Pit of Doom.

 

I think everyone assumes it's Alivia, but Rand describes the woman as old, gray hair, wearing Aiel garb, and having a voice he did not recognize.

 

In ToM, Aviendha describes Nakomi as having graying hair, wearing normal Aiel clothing.

 

I think Rand would recognize Alivia's voice, and Alivia is described as having yellow hair with threads of white running through it.

 

How did the body swap come about?  Wouldn't it take someone of fairly supreme power to be able to do that?  Maybe like, the Creator?

 

Perhaps Nakomi was the Creator made flesh?  Odd things happened at Aviendha's meal (coal on the fire appearing out of nowhere, the meal being the most delicious she'd ever had, etc etc.)

 

Nakomi pushes Aviendha to see things a little differently regarding the Waste vs. the "wetlands" and also, I think, is the seed planted that lets Aviendha realize that the Aiel cannot be left out of the Dragon's Peace -- they must continue serving the Dragon to survive.  In a sense, this was the first step in saving the Aiel from obliteration, as seen in the Pillars.

 

Aviendha askes Nakomi which sept is here, and Nakomi responses, "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all.  Perhaps IT is far from ME.  I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

And when she leaves, she says, "If you'll excuse me, I need to see to nature."  A simple explanation is going to the bathroom.... but "see to nature".....  Suggestive, no?

 

Anyway, I know this is a wacky theory..... 

 

Thoughts??

Edited by Sarlic
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Imagine the end of a movie, where you have the still images of characters and "what happened to the them next" text, and here are my speculations:

 

  • Lan and Nynaeve refound Malkier and have loads of babies, who one day are sent to train as warders, Ashaman and Aes Sedai before marrying with other royal houses, such as that of...
  • Faile and Perrin, take the throne of Saldaea, so Perrin can't be in charge of the Two Rivers or Elayne will throw a fit, so Tam stays in charge until one of Rand's offspring can take over
  • Elayne names her children with Rand after Gawyn and Egwene
  • Emarin/High Lord Algarin and Lord Baldhere find true love, whereupon the Tairen finds out exactly where his boarderland counterpart got his name.
  • Cadsuane re-establishes order and working with Logain integrates the Black and White Towers, though her reign is short...
  • Once she dies and Logain decides he finds the administrative aspects of leadership boring the groups elect a single leader, and thus Narishma follows after
  • Knotai is the only ta'veren left, and the Empress, may she live forever, decides its high time to go back to Seanchan and restore order.  She leaves Berelain in charge of the Seanchan controlled territories in the Westlands, which she rules with help from Galad, Beslan and of course...
  • Min stays behind, or else how can she take up it with her Wanderer? Interesting how she alone didn't get pregnant... RAFO, folks
  • Moghedien and Suffa enjoy long walks together
  • The King Mattin is restored to the throne of Illian, and he and Darlin occasionally rattle their swords to drum up political support, but they don't really mean it anymore, and its just not the same
  • King Roederin, feeling like he didn't really make the most of out of the Last Battle, contemplates leaving Murandy for leaderless Shara, since that turned out to be a better plan, but instead just eats away his pain
  • Loial, reflecting on his first draft, observes that the whole Fain story arc really lost its steam after book 9, and just writes a very brief ending to close it out, almost as though it were an inconvenient  after thought
  • Dannil lives a life of regret, becomes a thrill seeker, and jumps off some sea folk cliffs, but sadly chooses the lowest one in a fit of panic at the last minute
  • Cenn Buie thatches roofs, until there are no more roofs to thatch.  He never adapts his business model to incorporate new roof technologies and dies poor and miserable
Edited by kivo
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Imagine the end of a movie, where you have the still images of characters and "what happened to the them next" text, and here are my speculations:

 

  • Moghedien and Suffa enjoy long walks together

 

I about died laughing at this...

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Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.  So my dream of seeing Bao the Wyld's heroic quest to fulfill prophecy and lead the Sharans to the Last Battle rests on a knife edge.

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Here's a somewhat bizarre theory......

 

Nakomi was the woman that met Rand as he carried Moridin out of the Pit of Doom.

 

I think everyone assumes it's Alivia, but Rand describes the woman as old, gray hair, wearing Aiel garb, and having a voice he did not recognize.

 

In ToM, Aviendha describes Nakomi as having graying hair, wearing normal Aiel clothing.

 

I think Rand would recognize Alivia's voice, and Alivia is described as having yellow hair with threads of white running through it.

 

How did the body swap come about?  Wouldn't it take someone of fairly supreme power to be able to do that?  Maybe like, the Creator?

 

Perhaps Nakomi was the Creator made flesh?  Odd things happened at Aviendha's meal (coal on the fire appearing out of nowhere, the meal being the most delicious she'd ever had, etc etc.)

 

Nakomi pushes Aviendha to see things a little differently regarding the Waste vs. the "wetlands" and also, I think, is the seed planted that lets Aviendha realize that the Aiel cannot be left out of the Dragon's Peace -- they must continue serving the Dragon to survive.  In a sense, this was the first step in saving the Aiel from obliteration, as seen in the Pillars.

 

Aviendha askes Nakomi which sept is here, and Nakomi responses, "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all.  Perhaps IT is far from ME.  I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

And when she leaves, she says, "If you'll excuse me, I need to see to nature."  A simple explanation is going to the bathroom.... but "see to nature".....  Suggestive, no?

 

Anyway, I know this is a wacky theory..... 

 

Thoughts??

 

It seems to me that Nakomi either did the swap herself, or assisted him.  But either way, he knew what he was doing carrying Moridin out and mumbling to her about his questions and choice and being a puppet.

 

I am also glad that not all questions were answered.  It makes the ending more real, like the world goes on turning and not everything is tied up in a neat little bow.

 

I had hoped for more "blaze of glory" endings tho,  more people survived that mess than they should have.  Faile for one.......

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In her time as Amyrlin, Egwene:

1) Opened the novice book to all who could channel, regardless of age or ability (of course, they must still pass tests for Accepted and Aes Sedai)

2) Postulated the idea that Aes Sedai could retire, forswear their Oaths and their right to the honorific, and live out a long retirement under the authority of the Knitting Circle.

3) Persuaded a reluctant Hall to send Accepted to the Sea Folk and the Wise Ones for training, in return for training Sea Folk and Wise One apprentices, all three groups having the right of return after no more than 2 years.

4) Argued with Fortuona from a position of personal experience, and in so doing was able to crack the Childlike Empress' certainty about the rightness of collaring women who can channel.

5) Dragged the Hall, kicking and screaming, into politicking in the open rather than doing backroom deals.

 

How many of these things will Cadsuane also champion, or at least allow to continue? I suspect that she will have some difficulty with 1, a lot of difficulty with 2, and will lack the the direct experience necessary to negotiate with strength and so will be unable to prosecute 4. She will probably be content with 3, though, based on her personal experience of Wise Ones. I'm sure she will actively promote 5 as a policy.

 

Cadsuane is certainly a remarkable person, but I think that in electing her to the Amyrlin Seat, the Hall will have harmed its long-term survival. Perhaps that is as it should be. There will come an Age when the Hall does not exist. That said, if not Cadsuane then who else would have the necessary political skill and personal strength to do the job? Nynaeve is too erratic, Elayne has a kingdom to rule, Moiraine has ascended to the rarified heights of the demigods. Who else do we know of who could fill the voluminous seat so recently vacated by Egwene's equally-expansive posterior?

Edited by Rand the Plumber
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