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I figured they made a scouting gateway some distance away and then used that to see where they could make the larger gateways to send their army through to the maximum effect.  Once you have a clear line of site of the battlefield it shouldn't be hard to aim a gateway properly.

 

@XXX:  huge numbers of channelers just vanished from the light side to make this a contest.  Perhaps the remaining Ashaman were too weak/injured/untrained to be helpful in the fight?  Sometimes it is better to leave an ally home if they could do more harm than good.

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Oh, and a major typsetting screwup: in Egwene's death scene, there's a break from her POV to Rand's, and the first line of Rand's POV is "Egwene was dead." This was printed right at the bottom of the right-hand page. So when you're reading the book two pages earlier, with your eyes at the bottom right, and you turn the page, the first thing your attention is immediately drawn to is the set-off words "Egwene was dead"... before you actually get a chance to read the two pages of Egwene POV explaining how that happened. 

 

THIS! So annoying, possible the worst part of the whole book, I knew she was dead before I read her death scene.

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I haven't seen this typo mentioned:

 

Ch 45 - Tendrils of mist 

Mats POV - He is sureveying the battlefield and approaching Noal and Olver and the audiobook reads the following:

 

 

 

Noal smiled at Rand from horseback

 

I don't have the hardcopy to look this up, so I was wondering if it was a mistake by Michael Kramer, who was reading at the time.

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May not be correct, feel free to enlighten me

 

1- circles. Androl and Pevara form a link and he grabs control of it. Women have to pass control no? Also she says a man must be in control. Another lie. P 101 "yes Pevara said. But when a man and woman link, the man must be in control. You must take the lead". "he eyed her, and she prepared herself to pass control to him. Instead, he somehow seized it."

 

2- circles. Pevara says that a circle can be 2 men and 1 woman. Pretty sure a circle can be 2 women and 1 man, or 1 and 1 but that men can not outnumber women ( having issues finding the quote...)

 

3-AS vs. Ashaman. Pevara over powers 2 Ashaman single handedly. Pretty sure that it's been established that men are stronger in the OP than women (generally) unless women are linked, then even weak women could overpower a man. Seems wrong that she can single hardly take down that many male channelers P 125

 

4-sense channeling. Pevara says that men can sense when a woman was holding the OP. not true is it? Without the aid of terangreal? P101. "It was downright unfair, that a man could tell when a woman was holding the One Power and when she wasn't"

 

5-horn. RJ said that Mat never severed his link to the horn. BS sort of ignored that comment to make Olver work. (on my iPad someone else may have to find the quote on the net or in the knowlgebase)

 

1 and 2 could easily just be Pevara being wrong, we have been shown time and time again if you believe it is true you can say it, regardless of what the objective facts are.  Also the last time we saw a man take control of a link from a woman (Rand from Nyn) It did occur in a similar manner.

 

Also, i think that 1-1, 2-2 and 2 men-1 woman are the only exceptions to the "women must outnumber men" rule.

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I did not make a notation of the where this occurs, (I just tried looking for it and can't find it), but somewhere in the book, there is a typo saying Egwene drew on the True Power, instead of the One Power.  Will look again later when I have more time to try and find the exact page #

 

Are you sure it wasn't the True Source (another name for the One Power)? I can't find this error in the book.

 

I haven't seen this typo mentioned:

 

Ch 45 - Tendrils of mist 

Mats POV - He is sureveying the battlefield and approaching Noal and Olver and the audiobook reads the following:

 

Noal smiled at Rand from horseback

 

I don't have the hardcopy to look this up, so I was wondering if it was a mistake by Michael Kramer, who was reading at the time.

 

Audio error. It's correct in the book. Perhaps they were working from an earlier draft, though.

 

 

Oh, and a major typsetting screwup: in Egwene's death scene, there's a break from her POV to Rand's, and the first line of Rand's POV is "Egwene was dead." This was printed right at the bottom of the right-hand page. So when you're reading the book two pages earlier, with your eyes at the bottom right, and you turn the page, the first thing your attention is immediately drawn to is the set-off words "Egwene was dead"... before you actually get a chance to read the two pages of Egwene POV explaining how that happened. 

 

THIS! So annoying, possible the worst part of the whole book, I knew she was dead before I read her death scene.

 

Glad it wasn't just me. But it was "Egwene died."

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Sort of recall that channelling near the bore is dangerous (according to Mog & Demandred, I think it included travelling directly there as well), yet Rand, Nyn & Moiraine were channelling near it.

 

Can't remember an explaination for it.

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Sort of recall that channelling near the bore is dangerous (according to Mog & Demandred, I think it included travelling directly there as well), yet Rand, Nyn & Moiraine were channelling near it. Can't remember an explaination for it.

 

I believe it was simply because the DO didn't allow it of them and would punish them for it.

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Registered just for this.

 

Upon close observation, I see what I think to be an extraordinarily major error in the timeline of the book.

 

She opened her mouth to speak, and the sun went out.
Elayne froze, looking upward with shock. The clouds had parted above them—they often did when she was near, one way the bond with Rand manifested— and so she’d been expecting an open sky and light for this battle.
The sun still shone up there, but occluded. Something solid and dark rolled in front of it.

 

Pages 440 - 441, in chapter 24 To Ignore The Omens.

 

This seems to be the same total solar eclipse that starts shortly after Rand and his companions enter the Pit of Doom, which Aviendha sees from Shayol Ghul in page 425 and Lan from somewhere in Shienar in page 439.

 

This would put the start of the Battle of Cairhien in the same day Thakan'dar is invaded by Ituralde's troops. This is significant, because the battle of Cairhien is something that lasts only one day or maybe one day and a half.

 

Fighting against the northern trolloc army starts, Elayne withdraws from the battle out of exhaustion two hours from sunset (page 478), climbs a hill to see that the trolloc force has been encircled (479) and then sees the southern trolloc army approaching one day ahead of schedule. Bashere is relieved from duty under suspicions of being a Darkfriend (481) and Elayne's army is left with an hour to finish the northern trolloc army or they are toast.

 

They actually manage to do this and start maneuvering to face the southern army (499) with battle starting immediately. However, the arrival of Logain's Asha'man (528) and Androl's giant lava gateways (531) gives them a breather to regroup and attack, which results in total victory after a fight described as "swift, but brutal" (559).

 

All this pretty much makes clear that the battle of Cairhien started the day of Rand's arrival to Shayol Ghul and finished either very late the same day or the next day at the latest.

 

How does this contradict the timeline of the book?

 

Well, Min was sent with Rand's letter about the Seanchan arrival to Kandor (388) and Rand claims that this happens the day before the eclipse and the invasion of Thakan'dar (389). Nothing really contradicts this or suggests additional delays.

 

However, the next time we see Min it is said that she has spent a week with Gareth Bryne's troops.

 

It doesn’t really matter, Min thought. She needed cavalry for Bryne. At least she was doing something. She had spent the last week pitching in wherever she found that an extra hand was needed. It was surprising how much there was to do in a war camp other than fighting. It wasn’t work that had required her, specifically, but it was better than sitting in Tear and worrying about Rand . . . or being angry at him for forbidding her to go to Shayol Ghul.

 

Page 488, in chapter 27 Friendly Fire.

 

During the rest of this day, Min is made Tuon's Truthspeaker, Mat leads a succesful cavalry charge against the Sharans and realizes that the battle is about to be lost making him suspect Bryne of being a Darkfriend.

 

Egwene initially refuses to do so, but then remembers that Elayne was going to fight an important battle in this day near Cairhien (543) and sends a messenger. Shortly afterwards, Gawyn returns with news of Bashere being a presumed Darkfriend (544) and that only the unexpected arrival of the Asha'man saved the battle. Realizing that Compulsion is being used against the Great Captains, Bryne is removed and Mat becomes the commander of the armies of the White Tower.

 

In summary, as I read it:

 

Rand decides to send Min with Egwene the day before Eclipse Day.

In Eclipse Day, Rand's forces invade Thakan'dar and Rand enters the Pit of Doom. Aviendha sees the eclipse from Shayol Ghul, Lan from Shienar and Elayne from Cairhien.

The battle of Cairhien is fought during the rest of Eclipse Day.

Min spends a week with Gareth Bryne's troops, then the whole thing with Mat and the Seanchan happens.

Egwene receives the reports about the battle of Cairhien in the same day it happens, realizes the Compulsion angle and removes Gareth Bryne from command.

 

There is a hole in there of eight or nine days (because of the ten days week) that seems impossible to justify, unless I have overlooked something.

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Registered just for this.

 

Upon close observation, I see what I think to be an extraordinarily major error in the timeline of the book.

 

There is no timeline. Repeat that to yourself for an hour or two before you attempt to reread the last three books. :wink:

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There is no timeline. Repeat that to yourself for an hour or two before you attempt to reread the last three books. :wink:

 

There is enough of one that at least something can be done with both ToM and TGS.

 

This one, however, has only two possible rationalizations:

 

1) Elayne's eclipse is not the same eclipse from Shayol Ghul and Shienar (which would be unspeakably weird).

 

2) After announcing that they were invading Shayol Ghul the next day, Rand in the last minute decided to delay for seven plus days despite knowing that the Shadow had the last Seals and no such thing being noted in the text.

 

It is, I think, the biggest timeline fumbling I've seen in the series, though perhaps that's because these events were so critical to the plot and with four parallel plots it was easier to keep track of everything.

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Fair enough. The timeline drives me crazy, but partly that's because it's not useful to theorists any more because so much is up in the air, and some of the things that have been fixed call other things into question (for example, can we count on the sky clearing in Rhuidean as a significant timestamp, considering that the same detail was botched in other plotlines?) so I find it easier to ignore it. I figure if Steven Cooper gave up then I should probably give up too. :smile:

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It's not conclusive because Min sees viewings around non-channelers too. She also said nothing about viewings of Birgitte when she first met her in Salidar, but when she saw her again in WH she had more viewings than she'd ever seen around anyone else.

Of course Min sees viewings around non-channelers. But she detects Moggy here by seeing that she has the constant barrage of viewings she sees around channelers. Which makes no sense, if she didn't manage it once before.

 

Birgette... that's interesting. I'd forgotten Min had met her before WH. 

Didn't want to read the rest of the thread, but saw this so not s ure if anyones mentioned it...

But doesn't Min have to directly look at someone, to see the viewings? And, since Moggy was pretending to be a servant, why would she look dirctly at her?

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It's not conclusive because Min sees viewings around non-channelers too. She also said nothing about viewings of Birgitte when she first met her in Salidar, but when she saw her again in WH she had more viewings than she'd ever seen around anyone else.

Of course Min sees viewings around non-channelers. But she detects Moggy here by seeing that she has the constant barrage of viewings she sees around channelers. Which makes no sense, if she didn't manage it once before.

 

Birgette... that's interesting. I'd forgotten Min had met her before WH. 

Didn't want to read the rest of the thread, but saw this so not s ure if anyones mentioned it...

But doesn't Min have to directly look at someone, to see the viewings? And, since Moggy was pretending to be a servant, why would she look dirctly at her?

She was looking at everyone present purposely to try and find out who was a darkfriend.

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Edit: Sorry, forgot. This is from the TOR version, Canada.

 

Errors I noticed:

 

1) Page 681. This whole section was written from Silvia's PoV, but it shifts to Egwene's suddenly for one paragraph.

 

Egwene was aghast. How dare Silviana even suggest this? But, then, she was a Red - and they concerned themselves little with warders. Silvia did not know what she was asking

 

As a side note, that dash is completely unnecessary. But since the paragraph's entirety should be changed to Silvia's PoV anyway, it seems silly to bother changing just this.

 

2) Page 731. Teslyn is reintroduced to us, but she talks normally. I think she was an Illianer, but I recall her still speaking almost like a Seafolk before (I remember, for example, when she was with Mat her saying something along the lines of 'Master Cauthon, I do be needing to talk to ya'). Regardless, she just doesn't SOUND like Teslyn when she's shown in this part.

 

3) Page 753. Briefly switches from Olver's PoV to Faile when it says She added, more to herself, "Light. How are we going to reach Mat?. I can't see Olver being perceptive enough to know she "added, more to herself". That's clearly her own thinking there.

 

4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

As a side error, when in the HELL did Mat suddenly become comfortable with his memories and his randomly jumping into the Old Tongue without realising he had done so? Even at the end of ToM, he was still uncomfortable with the old tongue thing, then suddenly in this one he just uses them all over the place to help him? I'm not saying that they weren't of great use - they were. But so were Perrin's wolves, and it took him the whole bloody series to realise THAT. You expect me to believe Mat, being at LEAST as stubborn as Perrin is, just suddenly woke up one day and said "Meh, these memories are pretty cool, I guess"? 

Edited by aguyuno
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There is no timeline. Repeat that to yourself for an hour or two before you attempt to reread the last three books. :wink:

 

There is enough of one that at least something can be done with both ToM and TGS.

 

This one, however, has only two possible rationalizations:

 

1) Elayne's eclipse is not the same eclipse from Shayol Ghul and Shienar (which would be unspeakably weird).

 

2) After announcing that they were invading Shayol Ghul the next day, Rand in the last minute decided to delay for seven plus days despite knowing that the Shadow had the last Seals and no such thing being noted in the text.

 

It is, I think, the biggest timeline fumbling I've seen in the series, though perhaps that's because these events were so critical to the plot and with four parallel plots it was easier to keep track of everything.

While it does seem like a big fumbling, it's at least one that can be quickly fixed. All they have to do is remove Min's line about being there for a week, and the problem is pretty much solved, no?

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There is no timeline. Repeat that to yourself for an hour or two before you attempt to reread the last three books. :wink:

 

There is enough of one that at least something can be done with both ToM and TGS.

 

This one, however, has only two possible rationalizations:

 

1) Elayne's eclipse is not the same eclipse from Shayol Ghul and Shienar (which would be unspeakably weird).

 

2) After announcing that they were invading Shayol Ghul the next day, Rand in the last minute decided to delay for seven plus days despite knowing that the Shadow had the last Seals and no such thing being noted in the text.

 

It is, I think, the biggest timeline fumbling I've seen in the series, though perhaps that's because these events were so critical to the plot and with four parallel plots it was easier to keep track of everything.

While it does seem like a big fumbling, it's at least one that can be quickly fixed. All they have to do is remove Min's line about being there for a week, and the problem is pretty much solved, no?

 

Mostly solved, at any rate, in terms of the Egwene - Elayne timeline difficulties.

 

The eclipse is not mentioned in the Kandor front sequences IIRC and the timeline there is sufficiently vague that if the mention of Min staying a week is removed I think you could compress things into a workable arrangement.

 

However, that leaves the problem of Ituralde.

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There is no timeline. Repeat that to yourself for an hour or two before you attempt to reread the last three books. :wink:

 

There is enough of one that at least something can be done with both ToM and TGS.

 

This one, however, has only two possible rationalizations:

 

1) Elayne's eclipse is not the same eclipse from Shayol Ghul and Shienar (which would be unspeakably weird).

 

2) After announcing that they were invading Shayol Ghul the next day, Rand in the last minute decided to delay for seven plus days despite knowing that the Shadow had the last Seals and no such thing being noted in the text.

 

It is, I think, the biggest timeline fumbling I've seen in the series, though perhaps that's because these events were so critical to the plot and with four parallel plots it was easier to keep track of everything.

While it does seem like a big fumbling, it's at least one that can be quickly fixed. All they have to do is remove Min's line about being there for a week, and the problem is pretty much solved, no?

 

Mostly solved, at any rate, in terms of the Egwene - Elayne timeline difficulties.

 

The eclipse is not mentioned in the Kandor front sequences IIRC and the timeline there is sufficiently vague that if the mention of Min staying a week is removed I think you could compress things into a workable arrangement.

 

However, that leaves the problem of Ituralde.

Which problem?

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Which problem?

 

I do not know of the other battlefields, Elyas sent, and we wolves stay far from the two-legs. We fight, here and there, at the edges of the battle. Mostly, we have attacked the Twisted Ones and Neverborn from the other side of the canyon, where there are no two-legs except those strange Aiel. It is a grueling fight. Shadowkiller must do quick work. We have stood five days, but may not last many more.

 

This is when Perrin encounters Elyas in page 524, chapter 30 The Way of the Predator.

 

In the next page, Perrin figures what is being done to the Great Captains after seeing Graendal do her stuff in T'A'R and asks Elyas to give warning, before a disaster happens.

 

As I noted in my previous post, the battle of Cairhien can be pretty solidly dated to the same Eclipse Day in which the occupation of Thakan'dar begins and Rand enters the Pit of Doom. Bashere is believed a Darkfriend and removed from command. In the Egwene side of things, they get news that same day of this and realize that Compulsion is also being used against Gareth Bryne.

 

According to Lanfear (page 414), temporal distortions near Shayol Ghul mean that every day in Shayol Ghul is three or four for the rest of the world. Meaning that if Elyas and the wolves reached Thakan'dar more or less at the same time as Rand and his troops, those five days Elyas mentions in the quote above represent fifteen to twenty days beyond the Blight. Moreover, Ituralde's own POV (539) confirms that his troops managed to hold the entry pass into Thakan'dar for "days" before the wolves took him out of the equation.

 

Either way, that's more than enough time for word to reach the north (which remained in contact with the other battlefronts) about the Great Captains being targets, before Perrin gives his warning to Elyas.

 

So the problem is that apparently the revelation of the four Great Captains being victims of Compulsion was supposed to happen simultaneously or nearly so in all fronts.

 

The timeline for Lan's troops and Agelmar is non specific enough that there is no problem here.

The timeline for Elayne's army and Bashere is very specific in terms of it happening in Eclipse Day.

The timeline for Egwene's army and Bryne is contradictory because of the thing with Min spending a week with them and supposedly this happening at the same time as the battle in Cairhien. This can be solved at least in part by getting rid of Min's mention of spending a week there.

However, the timeline for Rand's army and Ituralde happens a number of Shayol Ghul days (meaning many days for the rest of the world, if we believe Lanfear) after Eclipse Day. And this one I think cannot be solved without some hefty re-writing of the sequence.

 

Now, it is possible that I have overlooked things and am wrong about this, but as far as I can see the Great Captains being identified as victims of Compulsion more or less at the same time is not compatible with the timeline as presented.

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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

 

Not the right interpretation, I think.

 

Rather than him suddenly realizing that Noal is Jain (which would contradict the death scene in ToM), I think Mat is thinking "This guy is Jain Farstrider, famous badass and totally awesome adventurer, who died a brave death to let us escape from the Tower. It makes sense for him to be a Hero of the Horn."

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4) Page 863. Mat "learns" Noal is Jain Farstrider. Except... he was there when Noal TOLD them that's who he was, just before the snakes/foxes killed him. I know Mat has memory problems, but this seems a little stretched.

 

On 863 Mat realizes that Noal was a hero of the Horn not that he was Jain, which he did already know.

 

"Noal.  One of the heroes of the Horn.  It bloody made sense.  Jain Farstrider himself."

 

Not the right interpretation, I think.

 

Rather than him suddenly realizing that Noal is Jain (which would contradict the death scene in ToM), I think Mat is thinking "This guy is Jain Farstrider, famous badass and totally awesome adventurer, who died a brave death to let us escape from the Tower. It makes sense for him to be a Hero of the Horn."

But he already HAD that reaction, at the end of ToM. Did he not?

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