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Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

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By the end, I meant more the final third/quarter of the book, not literally the last few pags. As for those final pages, I won't say that I wouldn't have liked them to be better, but they were enjoyable and that's ok by me.

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Based on discussion, Rand used the True Power in this book. How he managed to do this without the permission of the DO?

Edited by Inkor

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where the hell did 'Shaisam'(which I can't help but say as Shazzam! like Beyonce says in the last Austin Powers movie) come frm as a name, did it just get established or have I missed in ToM?

 

as far as I can tell it comes out of nowhere

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Just a quick question or 2

 

Did rand reach his goal of the black tower matching the white tower in numbers?

 

An how many Asha'men are 13x13ed?

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We don't get numbers much. But no to the first, maybe a few dozen to the second. WT lost huge numbers, but they kept their Healers, Accepted and novices out of actual fighting. BT's loss in fighting was probably less, but they lost Asha'man due to Turning, Darkfriends. OP did not play as much a part in the fighting as it should have, at least on screen. Only a few WOs mentioned, while there are thousands of them. Neither did the Kin. WFs played a huge part in SG, but not as a fighting force, they protected the soldiers while they defended Thakan'dar.

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Just a quick question or 2

 

Did rand reach his goal of the black tower matching the white tower in numbers?

 

An how many Asha'men are 13x13ed?

 

I think Taim managed to reach the goal of getting enough Asha'man to match the WT nos before the start of the last book.However if you include the novice and dedicated then the no of the WT was still more.

 

No nos given,I would say close to a 100 AM turned.

 

Massive losses on the WT side so the nos of AS are severely gutted.Asha'man lost probably 1/3 of their nos to the Dark One plus loses in actual battle so I would say they are as badly hit in nos as the WT at the end of LB.

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Was Nakomi's identity explained? Can someone possibly spoil that :)

 

Interesting what you have all said about Egwene.  How exactly does her undoing balefire  help Rand?

 

I'm a bit disappointed in the body swap happening. So exactly how did that go down....or is that to much to spoil?

Edited by MauricXe

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By the way, I wanted to state here that the planning for the initial four theaters was pure nonsense. Send all the Aes Sedai to simply keep in the Trollocs at Kandor? Send a pitiful few to Tarwin's Gap? Send none with Elayne at Caemlyn? None of these are sensible ideas. Elayne's plan was to torch Caemlyn anyway. So why not send 200 Aes Sedai, form many circles, and simply destroy the city with the Trollocs inside? Why not have some Aes Sedai head off to Tarwin's Gap, so that the anti-Dreadlord operations there could have some actual teeth? And what under the Light most holy were the Aes Sedai thinking, when they didn't form huge circles fighting Trollocs? What's the need for individual channelers when there are no enemy channelers to molest you?

 

And where were the thousands of Wise One channelers? Some went to Shayol Ghul, but hardly all did. Where were the Asha'man who had gathered at Merrilor? Barring a few that went to the Gap, we hear nothing of them. And what about Sea Folk Windfinders? I can understand a hundred or so rotating with the Bowl of the Wind. Maybe a few more to protect them. Where were the rest? Where were the Kinswomen too weak to do anything, but who could link to provide enormous Gateways?

 

The Aes Sedai and the Asha'man acquitted themselves well enough, but the tactics were so stupid. I understand that the Light was supposed to be reeling after their defeat at the 4 theaters. But the entire setup is lazy. If there had been channelers aplenty on all four fronts, that would have meant channelers from the Shadow had to arrive too (Taim's toadies, the BA, the Aiel Turned). Instead, the Shadow channelers were almost nonexistent, and the Sharan contingent was used to bulk up numbers.

 

As it stood, the Shadow still probably could match the Light, channeler wise. And if the battles had been written better, they'd have been more logical and even more spectacular. I'm really miffed at the stupidity on display by the characters here. Its very unrealistic, and not even in character for many of them.

 

Wait, so does that mean that channelers were not essential part of the war? I was under impression that hundreds of channelers together can destroy entire armies easily. On the other hand, they were not all used to using the One Power in warfare, other than the Ashaman.

 

Didn`t Demandred utilize the Aiel turned channelers and evil Ashaman in his strategy?

Edited by Lord Melkor

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Was Nakomi's identity explained? Can someone possibly spoil that :)

 

Interesting what you have all said about Egwene.  How exactly does her undoing balefire  help Rand?

 

I'm a bit disappointed in the body swap happening. So exactly how did that go down....or is that to much to spoil?

Nothing about Nakomi is explained. There is something about her at the end. But it's pretty much meaningless so far as I can tell. You might as well wait until you read the book because it's not going to satisfy you anyway.

 

Taim wove a huge amount of balefire using a Callandor level sa'angreal and the Pattern was on the verge of unraveling so Egwene gave enough time for Rand to fix it.

 

About bodyswap, basically, everyone besides his three women assumed Rand died, while he was alive in Moridin's body. He got his own peace. I wish he'd gone out in a blaze of glory and maybe come with the HoV for one last scene. That'd make it more satisfying for me.

 

 

By the way, I wanted to state here that the planning for the initial four theaters was pure nonsense. Send all the Aes Sedai to simply keep in the Trollocs at Kandor? Send a pitiful few to Tarwin's Gap? Send none with Elayne at Caemlyn? None of these are sensible ideas. Elayne's plan was to torch Caemlyn anyway. So why not send 200 Aes Sedai, form many circles, and simply destroy the city with the Trollocs inside? Why not have some Aes Sedai head off to Tarwin's Gap, so that the anti-Dreadlord operations there could have some actual teeth? And what under the Light most holy were the Aes Sedai thinking, when they didn't form huge circles fighting Trollocs? What's the need for individual channelers when there are no enemy channelers to molest you?

 

And where were the thousands of Wise One channelers? Some went to Shayol Ghul, but hardly all did. Where were the Asha'man who had gathered at Merrilor? Barring a few that went to the Gap, we hear nothing of them. And what about Sea Folk Windfinders? I can understand a hundred or so rotating with the Bowl of the Wind. Maybe a few more to protect them. Where were the rest? Where were the Kinswomen too weak to do anything, but who could link to provide enormous Gateways?

 

The Aes Sedai and the Asha'man acquitted themselves well enough, but the tactics were so stupid. I understand that the Light was supposed to be reeling after their defeat at the 4 theaters. But the entire setup is lazy. If there had been channelers aplenty on all four fronts, that would have meant channelers from the Shadow had to arrive too (Taim's toadies, the BA, the Aiel Turned). Instead, the Shadow channelers were almost nonexistent, and the Sharan contingent was used to bulk up numbers.

 

As it stood, the Shadow still probably could match the Light, channeler wise. And if the battles had been written better, they'd have been more logical and even more spectacular. I'm really miffed at the stupidity on display by the characters here. Its very unrealistic, and not even in character for many of them.

 

Wait, so does that mean that channelers were not essential part of the war? I was under impression that hundreds of channelers together can destroy entire armies easily. On the other hand, they were not all used to using the One Power in warfare, other than the Ashaman.

 

Didn`t Demandred utilize the Aiel turned channelers and evil Ashaman in his strategy?

Oh, channeler played their parts on both sides but it was not reflected as a huge part of the battle. They probably played a big part off-screen because that's what's reasonable but reading the book you just don't get that sense. It seemed common soldiers did more, which should not be the case. Warfare tactics is not the strongest point of this book. Individual channelers played big parts though.

Edited by Cem Önal

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Was Nakomi's identity explained? Can someone possibly spoil that :)

 

Interesting what you have all said about Egwene.  How exactly does her undoing balefire  help Rand?

 

I'm a bit disappointed in the body swap happening. So exactly how did that go down....or is that to much to spoil?

Nothing about Nakomi is explained. There is something about her at the end. But it's pretty much meaningless so far as I can tell. You might as well wait until you read the book because it's not going to satisfy you anyway.

 

Taim wove a huge amount of balefire using a Callandor level sa'angreal and the Pattern was on the verge of unraveling so Egwene gave enough time for Rand to fix it.

 

About bodyswap, basically, everyone besides his three women assumed Rand died, while he was alive in Moridin's body. He got his own peace. I wish he'd gone out in a blaze of glory and maybe come with the HoV for one last scene. That'd make it more satisfying for me.

 

By the way, I wanted to state here that the planning for the initial four theaters was pure nonsense. Send all the Aes Sedai to simply keep in the Trollocs at Kandor? Send a pitiful few to Tarwin's Gap? Send none with Elayne at Caemlyn? None of these are sensible ideas. Elayne's plan was to torch Caemlyn anyway. So why not send 200 Aes Sedai, form many circles, and simply destroy the city with the Trollocs inside? Why not have some Aes Sedai head off to Tarwin's Gap, so that the anti-Dreadlord operations there could have some actual teeth? And what under the Light most holy were the Aes Sedai thinking, when they didn't form huge circles fighting Trollocs? What's the need for individual channelers when there are no enemy channelers to molest you?

 

And where were the thousands of Wise One channelers? Some went to Shayol Ghul, but hardly all did. Where were the Asha'man who had gathered at Merrilor? Barring a few that went to the Gap, we hear nothing of them. And what about Sea Folk Windfinders? I can understand a hundred or so rotating with the Bowl of the Wind. Maybe a few more to protect them. Where were the rest? Where were the Kinswomen too weak to do anything, but who could link to provide enormous Gateways?

 

The Aes Sedai and the Asha'man acquitted themselves well enough, but the tactics were so stupid. I understand that the Light was supposed to be reeling after their defeat at the 4 theaters. But the entire setup is lazy. If there had been channelers aplenty on all four fronts, that would have meant channelers from the Shadow had to arrive too (Taim's toadies, the BA, the Aiel Turned). Instead, the Shadow channelers were almost nonexistent, and the Sharan contingent was used to bulk up numbers.

 

As it stood, the Shadow still probably could match the Light, channeler wise. And if the battles had been written better, they'd have been more logical and even more spectacular. I'm really miffed at the stupidity on display by the characters here. Its very unrealistic, and not even in character for many of them.

 

Wait, so does that mean that channelers were not essential part of the war? I was under impression that hundreds of channelers together can destroy entire armies easily. On the other hand, they were not all used to using the One Power in warfare, other than the Ashaman.

 

Didn`t Demandred utilize the Aiel turned channelers and evil Ashaman in his strategy?

Oh, channeler played their parts on both sides but it was not reflected as a huge part of the battle. They probably played a big part off-screen because that's what's reasonable but reading the book you just don't get that sense. It seemed common soldiers did more, which should not be the case. Warfare tactics is not the strongest point of this book. Individual channelers played big parts though.

Thanks, were the turned male Aiel channelers utilized as well? 

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A book store at my contry Accidently sold "Mmory Of Light" since 25/12.

I'm proud to say that I have finished it. probably the first one in the world.

that is one hell of A book :)

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One thing I noticed is that the concept of scale was hugely disproportional to what was actually happening. There were, at the very least, hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the side of the Light alone. Hell, the Seanchan by themselves brought at least 150-200k, if not more than that. The Sharans, hundreds of thousands, the Trollocs should have easily surpassed a million in order to have some of the numerical advantage they were said to have. None of this, and I mean absolutely none of it, came through in the text, it's like this was a battle that encompassed 150-300k(on both sides altogether). But I guess this goes back to the way the strategic level of the battle was not well written whereas the smaller individual aspects were knocked out of the park.

 

And I know I said it before, but I'll repeat it. Demandred was the man in this book...hell, he was perhaps the only Forsaken to not have been foiled by stupidity but by a legitimate character flaw(namely his desire to prove himself the best which was why he fought duels when he should have fried Lan's ass). And his interactions with Taim, that was pure awesome.

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Thanks guys! Another quick question about Thom does the warder bond (as moiraine said in ToM she was honing to make him her warder) sort his gamy leg at all? And does he carry a sword?

Edited by Drawwod

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Wow! These spoilers make my waiting time is more excruciating lol. Several questions from me:

 

1) Does the book mention Joline, Teslyn and Edesina?

 

2) Is there any new DF revealed, someone with close connection with Rand (one of the Wise Ones, Berelain, or other not-so-minor character)?

 

3) Does the Seanchan attack the White Tower while Egwene is at FoM? How does the battle go? Any AS captured?

 

Thank you guys!

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And I know I said it before, but I'll repeat it. Demandred was the man in this book...hell, he was perhaps the only Forsaken to not have been foiled by stupidity but by a legitimate character flaw(namely his desire to prove himself the best which was why he fought duels when he should have fried Lan's ass). And his interactions with Taim, that was pure awesome.

 

Really nice to hear about Demandred. Did Taim receive some development as well?

 

Can we imply from this book how the relations between the Ashaman and Aes Sedai are going to look like in the future? Was any official policy adopted with respect to Ashaman and Aes Sedai bonding each other?

Edited by Lord Melkor

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Teslyn reappears in a way that I didn't see coming but leaves me happy. Also, there really is no resolution to long-running issues like that in my opinion. When people say that the book ends abruptly, they're not kidding.

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One thing I noticed is that the concept of scale was hugely disproportional to what was actually happening. There were, at the very least, hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the side of the Light alone. Hell, the Seanchan by themselves brought at least 150-200k, if not more than that. The Sharans, hundreds of thousands, the Trollocs should have easily surpassed a million in order to have some of the numerical advantage they were said to have. None of this, and I mean absolutely none of it, came through in the text, it's like this was a battle that encompassed 150-300k(on both sides altogether). But I guess this goes back to the way the strategic level of the battle was not well written whereas the smaller individual aspects were knocked out of the park.

 

And I know I said it before, but I'll repeat it. Demandred was the man in this book...hell, he was perhaps the only Forsaken to not have been foiled by stupidity but by a legitimate character flaw(namely his desire to prove himself the best which was why he fought duels when he should have fried Lan's ass). And his interactions with Taim, that was pure awesome.

 

Lan had a foxhead medallion and was good enough that ANY attempt to play with indirect damage from the One Power would have led to instant death for Demandred and he knew it.   He was on Demandred before the man could react and from there, it was on.  Re-read that duel again.

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And I know I said it before, but I'll repeat it. Demandred was the man in this book...hell, he was perhaps the only Forsaken to not have been foiled by stupidity but by a legitimate character flaw(namely his desire to prove himself the best which was why he fought duels when he should have fried Lan's ass). And his interactions with Taim, that was pure awesome.

 

Really nice to hear about Demandred. Did Taim receive some development as well?

 

Can we imply from this book how the relations between the Ashaman and Aes Sedai are going to look like in the future? Was any official policy adopted with respect to Ashaman and Aes Sedai bonding each other?

 

The possibility of a mass orgy is significant in my opinion.

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A book store at my contry Accidently sold "Mmory Of Light" since 25/12. I'm proud to say that I have finished it. probably the first one in the world.

 

Not hardly.

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When I finished the book I contemplated never reading the series again. I love the books, Ive read most of them 50+ times over the years as my go to "nothing to read, read WOT!" since the mid 90s.

 

That said I got the feeling that Mr. Jordan might weirdly agree with my sentiment. I can't really explain it.

 

I think unfortunately we have to accept that BS wasn't dealt a full hand for the books. I mean we spend upwards of 1000 (over many books) pages with Luca\Menagerie\The Kin and they have nary a mention. It was almost like Ila and Raen were meant to encompass all of those kinds of characters we spent so much time with but were ultimately little more then scenery.

 

 

But yes, I tend to agree with most on the idiocy of Light Channelers\Lack of where they are. 500 Shaido WO can channel, 6000 channelers. But that is just the series. Rand creates a DeathlotusCloudofDeathBlackHole in TSR and you're telling me he couldn't just make\teach how to make that weave to counter the shadowspawn?

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