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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 10


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The battle with the Caemlyn trollocs was terribly written. On page 233 they are still outside Caemlyn refusing to charge, over 50 leagues away.. We then get an Androl and Lan POV and on page 237 they are suddenly outside the woods? Wtf. They charge Perrins harrying force and then somehow follow him for several days as they travel over a hundred miles? How is Perrins force traveling faster than trollocs for days on end without rest? The whole sequence was completely glossed over and frankly, tactically retarded. Did this make sense to anyone?

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 and frankly, tactically retarded. Did this make sense to anyone?

lol A little harsh, but  no, it didn't make much sense to me.

 

Sorry maybe I was a little harsh with that, but it is irritating how rushed the battles seem so far. The idea of leading the trollocs 250 miles to woods to set an ambush just doesn't make sense. Not to mention that the woods weren't even utilized. We had a couple volleys of arrows and then dragons and it was over. Very odd sequence.

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 and frankly, tactically retarded. Did this make sense to anyone?

lol A little harsh, but  no, it didn't make much sense to me.

 

Sorry maybe I was a little harsh with that, but it is irritating how rushed the battles seem so far. The idea of leading the trollocs 250 miles to woods to set an ambush just doesn't make sense. Not to mention that the woods weren't even utilized. We had a couple volleys of arrows and then dragons and it was over. Very odd sequence.

 

Yeah, I was pretty happy with everything up until this point, but at the end of Chapter 10 I felt the need to come here and vent a bit. The whole thing seemed unnecessarily complicated and poorly described (even glossing over distance between Camelyn and the woods). Oh well, here's hoping that was an outlier. 

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I think that it was a somewhat heavy-handed attempt to foreshadow all the secret stuff going on around the command tents....

 

What the heck was the point of having Aviendha be all ninja, sneaking into her own first-sister's camp?

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!

 

I think that's his point. Egwene is randomly awesome at everything to the point where she's become infallible. It's kind of ridiculous. She's an 18 year old farm girl that has had maybe 6 months of formal training and education in the Tower and with the Rebel Aes Sedai, yet she's always the wisest most knowledgable Aes Sedai. It's pretty unrealistic, especially compared to Elayne who has trained her whole life to lead and influence others.

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Is it just me or does it feel like nothing has happened so far.  Ok so I know there are like three battles going on at once right now, but it kinda feels like I'm trudging through all this waiting to get to the good bits.  I'm still waiting for the first major character death and some one on ones like rand/taim, perrin/slayer etc.  I suppose I'm saying that the shocking moments are lacking.  It better pick up soon...

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Is it just me or does it feel like nothing has happened so far.  Ok so I know there are like three battles going on at once right now, but it kinda feels like I'm trudging through all this waiting to get to the good bits.  I'm still waiting for the first major character death and some one on ones like rand/taim, perrin/slayer etc.  I suppose I'm saying that the shocking moments are lacking.  It better pick up soon...

 

I felt the same way through the first half of the book.  It will pick up dramatically.

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I thought the battles were great, I was worried it would be build up, then one massive battle that was the 109 page chapter, then epilogue.  Its kept the true spirit of gore and fighting and how actually un-Honorable it has been so far.

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!

I think that's his point. Egwene is randomly awesome at everything to the point where she's become infallible. It's kind of ridiculous. She's an 18 year old farm girl that has had maybe 6 months of formal training and education in the Tower and with the Rebel Aes Sedai, yet she's always the wisest most knowledgable Aes Sedai. It's pretty unrealistic, especially compared to Elayne who has trained her whole life to lead and influence others.

Basically, this.

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Thinking about the battles more... It is actually an act of world building.  Instead of just the shadow has this army the light has this army they fight and end of story, we get numbers and how they act.  We understand some of the driving forces in how the shadow fights.  We learn how they learn and adapt.   Its defiantly more action packed world building than what we are used to, but its a neat ploy that helps move the story and makes it feel epic.

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!
I think that's his point. Egwene is randomly awesome at everything to the point where she's become infallible. It's kind of ridiculous. She's an 18 year old farm girl that has had maybe 6 months of formal training and education in the Tower and with the Rebel Aes Sedai, yet she's always the wisest most knowledgable Aes Sedai. It's pretty unrealistic, especially compared to Elayne who has trained her whole life to lead and influence others.
Basically, this.

Meh...doesn;t botther me. She goes through fairly intensive training for most of her skills. For instance she worked far more with Siuan on Politics than Rand did with Elayne in Tear(all of a sudden Rand is crediting her in AMoL as being the reason for most of his political smarts). I do get that the ta'veren have a built in mechanism for getting good at everything so quickly that she doesn't have however.

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I always thought Egwenes rise to power and her character was pretty well written.  I feel like it goes a little overboard in the last two books, but I chalk that up as just something we have to forgive a bit with the author change.

 

Egwene is a standard cliche character, but I never had any moments where I sat back and went "oh COME ON, she's good at this too?!"  At least not until we get a new author - he sometimes takes her overboard IMO but I dont think that aspect of his writing is unique to Egwene so I just gloss over it.

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Elayne is the most logical compromise choice (especially with Mat having vanished somewhere) since she's one of the very few people both Rand and Egwene trust at this point, has the necessary training and the other monarchs would've complained if someone of lesser rank than a king or queen was chosen.

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Elayne is the most logical compromise choice (especially with Mat having vanished somewhere) since she's one of the very few people both Rand and Egwene trust at this point, has the necessary training and the other monarchs would've complained if someone of lesser rank than a king or queen was chosen.

 

I dont really agree with that.  I think picking an 18 year old girl who barely won her kingdom was an absurdly unrealistic choice.

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Sigh... There are a lot of things im happy with, even ecstatic, but so much that is stupid. Particularly the battle plans. You've got the entire WT, the Kin, the Wise Ones, the Seafolk... and they send, what, 4 channeler's to Tarwins Gap?  And the idea of focusing on Caemlyn is ludicrous as well. How about forming a mega-circle with as many sa'angreals as possible and dropping a power hammer on the Waygate? Or the entire city? Instead you divert the biggest set of your forces to hide in the woods 250 miles away? How long would it take the trollocs to cover that distance? At least a week right? So you're sitting there idle when you could have them fighting somewhere else and then travel back later? Its silly. Or if nothing else, lure them out of the city and destroy them with channelers 5 miles out in the open plains. Its kinda driving me nuts, because you have all these great captains and they are making terrible plans. Iteralde continues to rule however.

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!
I think that's his point. Egwene is randomly awesome at everything to the point where she's become infallible. It's kind of ridiculous. She's an 18 year old farm girl that has had maybe 6 months of formal training and education in the Tower and with the Rebel Aes Sedai, yet she's always the wisest most knowledgable Aes Sedai. It's pretty unrealistic, especially compared to Elayne who has trained her whole life to lead and influence others.
Basically, this.
Meh...doesn;t botther me. She goes through fairly intensive training for most of her skills. For instance she worked far more with Siuan on Politics than Rand did with Elayne in Tear(all of a sudden Rand is crediting her in AMoL as being the reason for most of his political smarts). I do get that the ta'veren have a built in mechanism for getting good at everything so quickly that she doesn't have however.

First, execution is not simply a function of quantity of training. It's a product of ability (which is a combination of a few different things) and quality of training/experiences. Elayne has been trained, yes, but in a pretty limited way. Egwene's body of experience--village woman, trained by the White Tower, held as damane, and apprenticed by the Aiel--has made her uniquely suited for the circumstances that faced her (admittedly not as well for running a war, that would have been different). Elayne doesn't have that experience. She was cosseted her entire life and just hasn't done enough during the series. And why the latter hurts her more than Nynaeve is that she doesn't have Nynaeve's character. It's mostly her upbringing (the vast majority of the nobles in Randland act just the case), but she should have learned better over 14 books. But despite all her interactions with other characters and her "love" for Rand, she still puts her own ambitions over EVERYTHING else and doesn't care who dies (Wonka's Eggdicator would certainly reject her as a "bad egg"). Egwene has learned from her experiences and slowly grown over the series; Elayne has learned little to nothing. Talent matters just as much as experience, and certainly more than mere training. Egwene has it. Mat has it (all of those memories would be worthless without it). Rand has it, although under his strain he's basically chose to be a bad leader most of the series. Elayne does not.

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I agree that the Camelyn "ambush" is kinda weird for the reasons stated, but I am enjoying the rest.  As for nothing bad happening yet - the Black Tower group is a mess right now. They certainly appear more "DOOMED" than the rest. And now the dark side has begun rolling out their dreadlords. 

 

Really liking the story, hating my job right now.

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Sigh... There are a lot of things im happy with, even ecstatic, but so much that is stupid. Particularly the battle plans. You've got the entire WT, the Kin, the Wise Ones, the Seafolk... and they send, what, 4 channeler's to Tarwins Gap?  And the idea of focusing on Caemlyn is ludicrous as well. How about forming a mega-circle with as many sa'angreals as possible and dropping a power hammer on the Waygate? Or the entire city? Instead you divert the biggest set of your forces to hide in the woods 250 miles away? How long would it take the trollocs to cover that distance? At least a week right? So you're sitting there idle when you could have them fighting somewhere else and then travel back later? Its silly. Or if nothing else, lure them out of the city and destroy them with channelers 5 miles out in the open plains. Its kinda driving me nuts, because you have all these great captains and they are making terrible plans. Iteralde continues to rule however.

Yep. Agree with all your points. Remember in book 1 when the company couldn't outrun trollocs over a few miles when there was just a few of them? Apparently now an entire army is able to keep ahead of them for 250 miles (they must not sleep or make camp) and it takes 1 page in literary terms to make this transition. Something must happen in Braem wood later and BS was unsure how to get the characters there. There's no way that RJ would come up with this strategy.

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Moiraine's reveal wasn't as dramatic as I'd hoped, but her general schooling of everyone was quite satisfying.

 

Elayne's been pretty boss so far. I was worried Egwene would be given the job and would be randomly awesomesauce at it. But Elayne being the most powerful of the monarchs and appropriately trained works well (though for a second I wondered if Rand would surrender the power to Tuon). And for once her connection with Rand makes sense.

Huh? Egwene has shown her abilities time and again (even if insufferable in doing so). Elayne has shown her incompetence time and again. She's the only ruler there to have lost her capital in the first 100 days of her reign!
I think that's his point. Egwene is randomly awesome at everything to the point where she's become infallible. It's kind of ridiculous. She's an 18 year old farm girl that has had maybe 6 months of formal training and education in the Tower and with the Rebel Aes Sedai, yet she's always the wisest most knowledgable Aes Sedai. It's pretty unrealistic, especially compared to Elayne who has trained her whole life to lead and influence others.
Basically, this.

Meh...doesn;t botther me. She goes through fairly intensive training for most of her skills. For instance she worked far more with Siuan on Politics than Rand did with Elayne in Tear(all of a sudden Rand is crediting her in AMoL as being the reason for most of his political smarts). I do get that the ta'veren have a built in mechanism for getting good at everything so quickly that she doesn't have however.

Egwene's isn't the wisest most knowledgeable Aes Sedai anyway. She just knows to surround herself with good advisors, and to listen to them. She has far fewer moments of ignoring good advice than Elayne, and it shows.

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