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What would you do if you were a male channeler in WoT?


Hagazussa
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but what if, say, a woman was stilled before she ever touched the source? Like, a party of chanelers were on the prowl  and discovered some kids with the abilty to learn then stilled them before they were aware of what was happening

 

1. Is this possible?

 

2. Would the victim suffer from fatal depression?

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I would imagine being stilled would be similar to a heroin junkie that never loses the desire for a fix. Thy wouldn't be in full kicking withdrawal mode but they certainly would have it constantly tempting.

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I'm interested in why you get annoyed when they describe how awesome it is.  :tongue:

Because they sound like drug addicts. and the drug is being treated by the story like a good thing

 

And so does getting drunk. The more I was thinking about it, the that channeling is like using a drug (and iirc that was intention by RJ, or have I misread?). You can overdose, and it has a natural side effect in causing tiredness. There is nothing inherently bad about using this drug (unless of course you are religious and don't like the idea of 'mortals' challenging your god *cough* Whitecloaks *cough* ) so I don't see why using it would be a bad thing, unless the person is either stupid, or uninformed about the side effects. Which is why there is the White Tower (and later the Black) to teach these special people about it. To make the 'drug' as harmless to the as possible, which is does. It is addictive, but the Tower makes sure that people don't get 'too' addicted to it. 

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To Emporor Allspice

 

The problem with deciding what I would do as a male chaneler is that I
can't comprehend just how addictive Saidin is. Or how being severed
could cause such misery. I especially can't comprehend the second one.

 

Well in allot of fantasy, science fiction and horror there are bad, or good things that can happen to a character that it is hard to imagine so one just have to go with what is written or shown in the piece of fiction. I can not comprehend what it is like to be turned into a Vampire in the RPG game Vampire the Masquerade, But I can understand the descriptions, I can not comprehend what it is like to be drained of one's life force by a Wraith in Stargate Atlantis but I can accept the descriptions in the fiction that it hurts like hell. I can not comprehend the kind of sick love someone Touched by a Confessor in Sword of Truth feels, I can not wrap my head around it, or how someone could ever be consumed by one emotion like that but I have to accept that in that setting, if you met a Confessor and she Touched you, then your mind would be destroyed by that one feeling of love. One do not need to comprehend just how addictive the One Power is to accept that in Wheel of Time the effect of loosing the ability to channel is devastating and for most is a fate worse than death.

 

what if you had the spark in you but were severed before you ever touched the source? would you die of depression then too?

 

As far as I know you can not sever someone before they first start Channeling, they have a potential to be connected to the Source then but the connection is not there yet. Now in the books none are actually severed before they start channeling consciously, but let us say someone had severed Rand early in the first book when he had no idea of what he was doing what would happen then? Well it would be speculation off course but I think that the individual would always feel that something was missing in their lives, that something was wrong, and off course there is the great pain of the severing itself which is probably rather traumatic, but no I do not think someone who had never channeled consciously would get the same fatal depression, but again this is pure speculation.

 

This have been debated a bit but I think that severing do more damage than just preventing someone from doing something they really, really want to do. Severed channelers are several times in the books described as having a hole in their mind o an emptiness there, and since what several actually do is cut away a piece of a person's soul I think that is rather nasty no matter who you do it to, but if the victim is not also addicted to the One Power it is probably far easier to handle.

 

The issue is that I don't get WHY you couldn't EVENTUALLY get used to
not being able to channel. Yes, I get it based on what's said in the
story, but I can't comprehend it. I can't comprehend something I've
never experienced.

 

A severed channeler can well if not get used to it, then learn to live with not being able to channel, at least for a while. A very small handful manage to find something to live for. The Cadsuane's victims, they survived for allot longer than most gentled male channelers, the one we know of lived for ten years but there might be others who have lived longer, we know they did not live their full lifespan and we do not know how long they lived as short of normal years can mean absolutely anything from ten years to two years shorter than the national average but they did survive for a while. However most severed channelers do not survive, but it is possible to do so, just not likely.

 

I'm sorry. I can't. I can't imagine it being bleak to the point where I
would kill myself. I can imagine it sucking. Sucking a LOT. But not any
moreso than living without your arms or your legs for instance.

 

I can imagine depression to the point of wanting to die. I can also imagine depression to the point of being nearly catatonic. I have never experienced it myself but my hubby have, and I would gladly suffer physical pain or be crippled rather than that kind of mental pain, If I had the choice between loosing an arm and getting a deep, clinical depression I would happily hold out my arm to have it cut off. Perhaps this is why I find severing in Wheel of Time such a disturbing concept, which at times have made me have to put the books away for a while, for while the reason for the depression in the books are fiction and fantasy, that kind of extreme depression is very much a possibility, and that is a very, very bad thing even before one have to imagine any loss of magickal ability or any other fantasy elements into it.

 

The story, (maybe it's the writing, maybe it's just me) didn't do a good
enough job establishing WHY Saidin is so 100% intrinsic to a chaneler's
life. And honestly, I get annoyed whenever they describe how awesome it
is.

 

Well let us have a look at what channeling is. Basically the channeler use a part of their own souls to draw in the very essence that drives the world. In effect they do magick by manipulating the life blood of the universe itself. I can fully imagine that such an ability would not be easy to loose. Also I think one have a bit about that being their nature, fish need to swim and channelers need to channel.

 

Because they sound like drug addicts. and the drug is being treated by the story like a good thing

 

I have never really seen the drug comparison. I could be because I have never done drugs myself, I do not even drink alcohol. What I see a parallel to and how I understand how channeling feels is more like a religious experience. Now just one point for Atheists and others who might be annoyed that I bring up a religious point, please bare with me, I am not claiming anything or saying that I am right. I am just saying how I understand the concepts of these books from my own world view and faith. Now in many religions followers speak of a religious revelation, the faith can be different. Christians speak of finding Christ, Wiccans can feel the caress of the Goddess and the God, Yogis experience their Kundalini awakening and so on, the concepts are different but often the description of such a moment of enlightenment are very similar. A moment of perfect happiness, when the world seam more real, the colors are brighter, sounds clearer, suddenly one feel awake as if the rest of one's life one is half asleep, like if you have suddenly stepped outside and viewed nature in all her glory when earlier you had just looked out through a dirty window and not even known it. And through it all there is this intense feeling of love, and life and just this connection with the Divine that fills you with awe and purpose. For one perfect moment everything is so clear and so fantastic that you may weep with joy. Now many religious people on various paths have experienced this and it is a proud and life changing experience. Now I imagine channeling in Wheel of Time and being able to call forth the pleasure and feelings of such an experience at will, to hold it and keep it for as long as you desire and work with it regularly and in addition you get access to magick and I can imagine how that would be extremely addictive. Now like I said I am religious but if you are not then I am not claiming anything, I am just saying how I understand the concept of how channeling feel in the books from my religious world view and experiences.

Edited by Hagazussa
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I would probably just hide up in some area like the mountains of mist or the spine, where no one would find me. I would play around with it for a while, and if I didn't die before I went crazy, at least there would be no one around when I did.

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The problem is that once crazy thee would be nothing stopping you from just walking down to the nearest down or village, pick of a good piece of mountain, floating it over said populated area and letting go. Sure there is a chance you would just be wandering around up in the mountains tossing weaves left and right until you rotted alive and died, but you could also decide to go somewhere and create some death and destruction without having much idea about what you where doing, think Hannibal Lecter with fireballs.

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Well perhaps but could you not use Earth to make steps out of the walls to get out? Though when totally batshit crazy that might be a bit more control needed than you have, so it might work.

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I would probably go to a stedding.  I would try and find out if the power to prevents channeling, and also prevents the taint from effecting men, can be copied, and built into some sort of te'angreal.  If you could wear a necklace that prevents you from touching the true source, or even sensing, and protected you from the taint, men would be able to channel only when they needed to and keep from going mad. 

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A Stedding do not protect a male channeler from the taint, not channeling do that. Inside a Stedding channeling do not work and the problem is that it do not matter if you could have that effect in a piece of jewelry and carry it with you, eventually you would remove that necklace when the need to channel got to great. But let us say you had such a necklace and only channeled when you absolutely had to, once a week perhaps to keep the sense of loss and need to channel at bey, you would go insane then as well, only a bit more slowly.

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A Stedding do not protect a male channeler from the taint, not channeling do that. Inside a Stedding channeling do not work and the problem is that it do not matter if you could have that effect in a piece of jewelry and carry it with you, eventually you would remove that necklace when the need to channel got to great. But let us say you had such a necklace and only channeled when you absolutely had to, once a week perhaps to keep the sense of loss and need to channel at bey, you would go insane then as well, only a bit more slowly.

I was under the impression that steddings greatly lessened the effects of the taint, and allowed men to stay sane much longer than normal.  

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A Stedding do not protect a male channeler from the taint, not channeling do that. Inside a Stedding channeling do not work and the problem is that it do not matter if you could have that effect in a piece of jewelry and carry it with you, eventually you would remove that necklace when the need to channel got to great. But let us say you had such a necklace and only channeled when you absolutely had to, once a week perhaps to keep the sense of loss and need to channel at bey, you would go insane then as well, only a bit more slowly.

I was under the impression that steddings greatly lessened the effects of the taint, and allowed men to stay sane much longer than normal.  

It prevents them from channeling, which protects them from becoming further tainted. 

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I was under the impression that steddings greatly lessened the effects

of the taint, and allowed men to stay sane much longer than normal.

 

Like Jedman said, all a Stedding do is prevent someone from channeling, so some male channelers during the Breaking sought them out an stayed for as long as they where able to keep themselves from channeling, the Stedding however do nothing for the taint itself. Look at it like this, let us say you live at my house and I decide to poison you so with every meal I add a bit of poison to it. If you go to live somewhere else for a while and then stop getting getting sicker it is not because you new apartment protect you from poison but rather that you stop eating my poisoned food, simple as that. A male channeler trying to stay in the Stedding is not protected from the taint, but as long as he is not channeling he is not getting any more of it, so if he have good self control and manage to stay for a while he will naturally then last longer than one that is out in the world happily channeling left and right.

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I was under the impression that steddings greatly lessened the effects

of the taint, and allowed men to stay sane much longer than normal.

 

Like Jedman said, all a Stedding do is prevent someone from channeling, so some male channelers during the Breaking sought them out an stayed for as long as they where able to keep themselves from channeling, the Stedding however do nothing for the taint itself. Look at it like this, let us say you live at my house and I decide to poison you so with every meal I add a bit of poison to it. If you go to live somewhere else for a while and then stop getting getting sicker it is not because you new apartment protect you from poison but rather that you stop eating my poisoned food, simple as that. A male channeler trying to stay in the Stedding is not protected from the taint, but as long as he is not channeling he is not getting any more of it, so if he have good self control and manage to stay for a while he will naturally then last longer than one that is out in the world happily channeling left and right.

i'm not staying at your house anymore :P

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I still find it hard to believe that in the history of the world, there isn't a SINGLE male with the willpower to live without the power and have it not be that agonising

But there has been. Again Cadsuane has a come up with a method of treatment that integrates them back into society and allows them to live an almost normal life span.

 

Further we haven't seen any males who have been "burned out" like Setalle Anan on screen. They very well could end up just like her given a reason to live.

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Become the best healer ever!  Then create a moral dilemma for whatever Aes Sedai that comes my way claiming: Gentling me will do more harm then good

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(growls at the name "Cadsuane". Of course Jordan's pet had to come up with a treatment for that. It can't just be the man himself, oh no. Can't have that)

Well, I view it as a serious mental issue or depression. You aren't necessarily going to come up with the solution yourself. You need outside help.

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I still find it hard to believe that in the history of the world, there isn't a SINGLE male with the willpower to live without the power and have it not be that agonising

 

In addition to what Sutt said, I imagine that men didn't receive the same type of support some woman may have. They're dragged back to the Tower in a cage, put in shock, and then viewed with pity and maybe disdain in their life afterwards. That, in addition to having just been cut off from the source, probably made for some really steep depression.

 

Also, there's not a single known case. I'm not saying men did, but I suspect any man who did try and make a living afterwards would be viewed like a sex criminal in today's society, and would probably try to ditch any association he had with his past life.

Edited by Agitel
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That's the thing I have a hard time comprehending. I know all the technical reasons. But I have a hard time believing that NO ONE has ever overcome True Source withdrawl on their own

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