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Mat`s luck

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^ Haha bluntly put, yea.

 

Other than that...is the luck actually taveren based? I never bothered to wonder at that. Just took it as it was.

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Other than that...is the luck actually taveren based?

 

Yeah, that's how I interpreted it.

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I've always taken it to be something like what Kaznen said. Each of the three ta'veren seem to have one special skill/feature. Mat's just happens to be luck and those dice in his head :)

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I don't think any of the boys' powers is related directly to them being ta'veren. There are many other characters who have special skills but who are not ta'veren such as Egwene's dreamwalking, Nyneave's healing, Min's viewings, and Elayne's skill with ter'angrel

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Then why would Rand's being in a room/city with a coin toss result in it landing on its edge (insert unlikely large number here) times in a row?

 

Perrin is just as lucky, think of the chances of meeting the one man in the world (elyas) who could introduce him to the wolves, and is sane enough to do it. Obscenely small, I'd venture.

 

Look at the stories about Hawkwing, he had some of each the 'types' of things we've seen, but they would wax and wane and change from story to story.

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Then why would Rand's being in a room/city with a coin toss result in it landing on its edge (insert unlikely large number here) times in a row?

 

Perrin is just as lucky, think of the chances of meeting the one man in the world (elyas) who could introduce him to the wolves, and is sane enough to do it. Obscenely small, I'd venture.

 

Look at the stories about Hawkwing, he had some of each the 'types' of things we've seen, but they would wax and wane and change from story to story.

 

I don't think that's so much luck as the Taveren twisting of the pattern. Mat's obscenely lucky in that he wins at gambling etc other lucky thinks that happen such as the board creaking in Ebou Dar may have simply been Taveren twisting at work. Having said that we really don't see Rand and Perrin gamble much so maybe they are lucky!

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I'd say Rand is very lucky, he gambles just not for gold. Look at how he deals with the systems of government around him. Arrogance and luck. Look at his sword fights with Ishy, and then again his tangle with Fain in Far Madding. There are dozens of instances where he gets really lucky to come out of someting alive. The problem is how much is luck and how much prophecy, or is there any such thing as luck if the prophecy has fore-ordained and outcome in your favor?

 

Hawkwings Taveren abilities extended to turning dice rolls and coin tosses, and with his attitudes I doubt he was healed ever, so as to avoid overlap with Mat's history. I'm pretty sure it was Moiraine or Verin who pointed this out, and I'd say that makes extreme luck a form of taveren.

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Having things turn out how you want isn't necessarily luck e.g people popping out with things they wouldn't usually have said- more a Taveren making the pattern give them what they need/want.

 

We need to remember Taveren force the pattern- if they want something enough it will probably happen.

 

I agree with Rand being lucky in that he comes out alive where others would surely have died (perhaps it's prophecy working there), it's just that he and Perrin don't have gambling to show just how lucky they are.

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mmm dont think that they are so lucky,

in the 2/3th book it say that taerven maybe be extremly lcuky somtimes, bot somtimes they dont have any luck at all (the give hawking as an exmple of a man that some times when he rool the dice everyithng he wented was shown).

perrin and rand some times have really good luck and somtimes really bad lack its changes they are rearven and they change the pettern for the best and for the worst.

i think mat changes it for good most of the times.

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Perrin's luck and taveren abilities (which I combine because he is lucky insofar as what he wants is what the pattern needs from him) tend more towards dealing with people and loyalties (see Aliandra(sp) swearing to Perrin, or coming across Elyas when he did (just because the pattern needed him to find the wolves doesn't make him finding Elyas any less lucky), then there's all the politics that fell into place while he was chasing the shaido, and dealing with masema. Taveren doesn't just include luck with dice, it includes luck with people, and getting the unexpected, ALL 3 if which Artur Hawkwing had if in turns. There are the unexpected perks like people falling off roofs and not having a bruise, or someone tripping over thier shoelaces (or whatevers on hand) and breaking thier neck, or bubbles of Evil popping up around you 6 months before they are seen anywhere else.

 

MCauthon: Mat exploits his taveren abilities a bit more openly than do the other two, seeing as how he allows it to fund his bankroll, as well as pull his bacon off the fire in a battle he wanted no part of. I think the dice are the pattern trying to curb some of his more exuberant tendencies toward luxury and opulence.

 

Wonga: Taveren dont force the pattern, the pattern forces them. Remember Loial's Talk with Rand in the first few books, and I think Fel may have mentioned it too.

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I don't exactly remember where, (I'm re-reading by listening to the audiobooks out of order as I get them) but from one of Mat's POVs, he tries to remember when his luck started becoming extravagantly good at gambling and figured it was After his visit to Shadar Logoth and then having the dagger removed by the Aes Sedai. I think it was then that he figured his luck ran best at "random" things. He didn't think much more on where his luck came from then that... so infer as you will.

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The luck that Rand, Perrin and Mat experience related to people, events and matter of life and death is likely because they are ta`veren. Mats luck is different, since it effects gambling, which has no importance to the Pattern. Which means that being ta`veren he would just increase the chance of winning ten in a row, or loosing ten in a row.

 

The fact that it has been mentioed that he got the Dark Ones luck seem to be important. His luck started after his visit to Shadar Logoth, but I believe that when he was healed, he accidentally became the luckiest man alive, like a side effect.

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The fact that it has been mentioed that he got the Dark Ones luck seem to be important. His luck started after his visit to Shadar Logoth, but I believe that when he was healed, he accidentally became the luckiest man alive, like a side effect.

 

I agree.(with his luck being a side effect of the healing from the dagger) But that would mean it had nothing to do with the dark one. And the saying "the Dark Ones own luck" is just that, a saying.

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O.K., sorry but you're right it was a side effect of being healed from the Shaddar Logoth Dagger.

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Or perhaps his luck was "activated" when his Ta'Veren powers came into being. There was obviously a point where they started, because nothing strange had been happening in the Two Rivers (And would, with 3 Ta'Veren around).

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Actually it's a side effect of the dagger period. Mat discovered his luck with gambling in Fal Dara against the shienarins right after he got the dagger. He was recognized as Ta'Veren before they even left Two Rivers, that's why Moiraine brought Mat and Perrin along.

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Are you sure they were recognized as ta'avern then? The first time that ta'avern was introduced at all was in Caemlyn when Rand meets Loial. I am not exactly sure when Moiraine figured that all 3 were ta'avern, but I don't think she knew which one was the Dragon Reborn at the time she met them. I may be wrong because I haven't reread it since I read it the first time and later events would clarify. I thought she brought all three because she wasn't sure exactly which one it was to be.

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Well she probably didn't know who the dragon was going to be but she definatley knew somethinga bout Mat, Perrin, and Rand. Why else give them and only them the coins, and try to get just them out of town after the trolloc attack. I think that she knew they were Ta'Veren. Wether or not it says it in any of the books I don't know that is just a personal opinion of mine.

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She knew Rand was the prophecied one late in her stay (probably after/during the Trolloc raid) as per the info from New Spring and when Nynaeve told the boys that she had been asking about them and where they were born.

She knew enough right away to give Rand, Perrin and Mat silver marks with tracking weaves as opposed to the silver pennies she gave everyone else.

 

 

Being taveren wasn't obvious to anyone else until Rand told Loial thier story, although at that point it was mostly small change compared to how crazy the Taveren-ness gets later on (circa TDR).

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I don't think she knew for sure til the end of the Eye of the World cuz she told Rand after the battle at the eye that she should have guessed who it was when Bela had no need of healing or whatever it was. She kept repeating I should have guessed.

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She knew it was between 1 of them because they were all born within that small time frame. That was when they were asking about why only they had seen the Fade. She said something because they were born within like 2 weeks of each other and the other people were half a year apart or something to that effect.

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