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Veracohr

Moiraine was cut off from the source?

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The truth is we do not know how Lan reacted when she entered the Tear doorway. For all we know she made preparations ahead of time to stop Lan from going on a bender. But we do know however that she specifically changed her bond to compel him to go to Myrelle should anything ​happen to her. So any lapse in her bond would severe it totally rather than merely force it to go into standby mode.

 

As for her loss of power, that is to me a lot easier to explain. In a way if you take the whole "burning out." part coupled with the hightening limits of how much power one person can handle before they are destroyed or burnt out. Then its simpler to think of a channeller in the same sense as a candle or a lantern(One that doesnt decay or reduce unless they overuse it.) then if the Finns fed off her power at the maximum energy she could hold without allowing her to release it, then she would steadily reduce her capacity as her ability slowly burned away.

 

After all, all channellers can hold the source, but its how much they can hold in their fuel tank(only work i can think of other than reservoir or capacitor) that determines how powerful they are. And if your fuel tank is smaller then overfilling it will make you go boom or force your engine to stop.

intersting. I was wondering if given enough time and rest, mo's ability to channel would "grow back".

Also, Lanfear was killed when the 'finns fed off her power too quickly. They fed off her power because she 'wished' to be stronger than the most powerful AS of that time, not realizing that she was the most powerful female AS in history; they 'granted' her wish by 'eating' her ability to channel to reduce it to just above the highest (dont know if Nyn is considered AS for this purpose) but that is why Cyndane is considerably weaker than Lanfear was.

 

Think of the bond as a string connecting them. In tear, she closed the door on the string, but it didn't break. At the docks, the door was set on fire which burned through the string causing it to break

Actually, when the terangeal doorway broke, the entire link to Randland was destroyed. The Tear doorway shattered at the same time; there is no other explanation for why Mat and Co found the Tear doorway broken in ToM.

The ToG is not a link, per se, rather its a different portal that, much like the portal stones, with the proper knowledge can be used to enter the world of the 'Finns.

The link and the doorways must have been made by AS in the AoL under the terms of a contract with the 'finns. Perhaps the ToG itself was built by the finn's when they first entered into Randland; no doubt they were as confused by the rules of the world as humans are confused by the 'finns realm.

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intersting. I was wondering if given enough time and rest, mo's ability to channel would "grow back".

 

That is an interesting question, if someone's connection to the Source have gotten damaged but not completely broken, for example someone who nearly burn themselves out but not completely, or if someone have almost been severed but the weave did not cut all the way through, what would happen then? Would it lessen their ability? And if so will the damage heal with time or not?

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People there is a quote from Brandon saying the bond severed due to that portal breaking. What caused the bond to snap is exactly what I described in my first post.

It isnt clear what the actual cause is.  Just because it is related to the "severing of the link" doesn't mean the severing is the cause.  The severing of the worlds was caused by the arch breaking, and (if) the bond broke because of the arch breaking, then they would be related, but not one caused the other.

 

If Brandon comes back and says definitively that it was the severing of the link that did it, then that is that.  But then I want the mechanics of the Warder Bond. 

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People there is a quote from Brandon saying the bond severed due to that portal breaking. What caused the bond to snap is exactly what I described in my first post.

It isnt clear what the actual cause is.  Just because it is related to the "severing of the link" doesn't mean the severing is the cause.  The severing of the worlds was caused by the arch breaking, and (if) the bond broke because of the arch breaking, then they would be related, but not one caused the other.

 

If Brandon comes back and says definitively that it was the severing of the link that did it, then that is that.  But then I want the mechanics of the Warder Bond. 

 

Interview: Mar, 2000Paul Ward
Possible question: Why did the ter'angreal doorway burn down when Lanfear and Moiraine passed through?
Robert Jordan
When Moiraine and Lanfear went through the ter'angreal, it burned in part because both were channeling, and the world on the other side of the doorway has a radically different set of natural laws. The odd optical effects witnessed in that other world are not artificially produced artifacts. (complete answer)

That is what caused the red stone to break.

 

In addition we have the quote from Brandon earlier stating that...

 

It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

If you can come up with a different explanation than the one I provided in post 11 by all means let's hear it. But the link between worlds severing is by far the easiest explanation and it is pretty clear given the info we have. Not really seeing the reason to split hairs here?

 

 

Edited by Suttree

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People there is a quote from Brandon saying the bond severed due to that portal breaking. What caused the bond to snap is exactly what I described in my first post.

It isnt clear what the actual cause is.  Just because it is related to the "severing of the link" doesn't mean the severing is the cause.  The severing of the worlds was caused by the arch breaking, and (if) the bond broke because of the arch breaking, then they would be related, but not one caused the other.

 

If Brandon comes back and says definitively that it was the severing of the link that did it, then that is that.  But then I want the mechanics of the Warder Bond. 

 

Interview: Mar, 2000Paul Ward
Possible question: Why did the ter'angreal doorway burn down when Lanfear and Moiraine passed through?
Robert Jordan
When Moiraine and Lanfear went through the ter'angreal, it burned in part because both were channeling, and the world on the other side of the doorway has a radically different set of natural laws. The odd optical effects witnessed in that other world are not artificially produced artifacts. (complete answer)

That is what caused the red stone to break.

 

In addition we have the quote from Brandon earlier stating that...

 

It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

If you can come up with a different explanation than the one I provided in post 11 by all means let's hear it. But the link between worlds severing is by far the easiest explanation and it is pretty clear given the info we have. Not really seeing the reason to split hairs here?

 

 

Ive stated my explanation.  Im not arguing what caused the doorway to break.  I understand that and assumed that when I read it the first time.  I am saying that it is a side effect of the ter'angreal breaking, not the link between the worlds breaking.  They happen to be the same thing, but if moir had happened to be in the central hall when the doorway was destroyed, then the bond wouldn't have been broken, or the same effect is possible from the destruction of the doorway ter'angreal without actually being on the other side.

 

As for the "splitting hairs," there is no reason to question anything here at all, as we know the end result.  Most things here come down to "splitting hairs".

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"Splitting hairs" to me is differentiating between the door frame ter'angreal and the link between worlds. To me they are one and the same. Maybe that is where the confusion came in. She couldn't have made it to the central hall as there channeling is what destroyed it and then that is what severed the link.  To be clear if she had gone through safely and then something had destroyed the gateway once she was on the other side I don't think the bond would have severed. When I say "link severed" I basically meant the red stone doorway being destroyed as they passed through and it's all bundled together for me. The same effect most certainly would not be possible had she not passed through. Think we are actually pretty close here but were just hung up on how I worded things.

Edited by Suttree

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Yeah, I realize that what I quoted you saying pretty much exactly says the same as I was.. Sorry, its been one of those days...

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So, what about when Rand backed out of the Tear doorway holding a sword of flame?  How did that not break the link, or cause the doorway to break apart?  

 

Maybe it is the quantity of power.  If simply channeling while walking through the doorway would cause the break, then Aes Sedia would know that from their study of the Tear doorway.  When Egwene was told of why people go naked into the Accepted test ter'angreal, she is told that at first women entered with strong wards to protect them, and always died or were burned out.  I imagine they would have entered the Tear/Mayene doorway similarly protected, and so would have strongly suggested to any future channelers not to channel while entering.  But Moiraine said no such thing to Egwene.

 

So, it wasn't channeling in general, it was the types of weaves they were using that interacted with the doorway in a disastrous way.

Edited by Whizbang

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 When Egwene was told of why people go naked into the Accepted test ter'angreal, she is told that at first women entered with strong wards to protect them, and always died or were burned out

This does not explain why they go in naked, it merely explains why they dont channel or ward themselves. We see from Nyns POV that the accepted terangreal is similar to TAR - the only way she could have forced the arch to reappear was to 'know' it was there.

 

I wonder why RJ has so many naked women in the WoT vs. men? All the WT ceremonies have some nudity involved - i suspect, for the Accepted Test specifically, to make the novice feel more vulnerable, that she has no defense except her own mind, will and courage. Prob the same for the AS test. But there seems to be plenty of gratitious nudity throughout the series.

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I was less concerned with the naked part and more concerned with the "strong wards" part. THe naked part is easily explained by the fact that many secret ceremonies and societies in the real world have nudity as part of it. I only mentioned the nakedness while entering the Accepted Test in order to reference the scene that supported my argument. I don't care about the nakedness itself, as it has nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

For the purposes of arguing that merely channeling while going through the doorway caused the ter'angreal to be destroyed, the fact that Aes Sedai first try strong wards before using/entering strange ter'angreal implies that, if true for the Doorway Ter'angreal, Moiraine should have known that channeling while entering the doorway would cause trouble, and therefore would have warned Egwene when she told her of the doorway in Tear. Not telling her would lead to disaster, since the doorway was in a dark room and to assume that Egwene would bring a lamp or extinguish a glowing ball before entering the doorway is a huge risk. Therefore, it was not known that channeling while entering the doorway would cause trouble. The reason it was not known, despite years of AS study while the doorway was in Mayene, is because the mere act of channeling doesn't cause trouble. Something specific that Lanfear or Moiraine was channeling while entering triggered the event, rather than merely the act of channeling.

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IIRC Moiraine grabbed the angreal ,or tried to grab the angreal off Lanfear as they fell through. Plus they were both channeling.

Two channelers having a go at the same time might blow fuses. Or Lanfear / Moi/ both catastrophically losing the Source might.  Or one of them threw a specific weave that damaged the doorway as said above.

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Much like stilling, I am curious as to know whether or not Moiraine could have some of her power restored through healing.

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