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What things would make you REALLY ANGRY - if they happened in AMOL?


The Fisher King
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Ive seen lots of threads about what we theorize MAY happen in AMOL and lots of topics about what we HOPE happens in AMOL...But, what would really just P!SS YOU *OFF* if it comes to pass in AMOL?

 

For me, if Nakomi turns out to be imaginary I will be ticked.

 

If Rand ''grows himself'' a new hand, I will groan out loud at the utter cheesiness of it.

 

Id Moiraine gets diminished or disrespected in any way in her return.

 

One big thins I will be mad - and I mean REALLY MAD - if it does NOT happen is if Mat does NOT ''General'' much of the Last Battle. I'm most worried about this because it is setting up for Mat to be away from most of the main action and that would be beyond disapointing to me.

 

Oh, also - I'll be Furious Frank if Moiraine and Rand's and Moiraine and Lan's reunion are not all they better be!

 

 

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Lol at Furious Frank. Personally, I'll be really upset if:

 

-anyone sniffs in Rand's general direction

-Mat sends another letter to Elayne (oh wait)

-Androl's arc is longer than 2 chapters

-Min's discovery is trivial

-Logain gets 13x13d

-Tam dies

 

There's more, I'm sure, but off those are off the top of my head. As an aside, I wouldn't hope for much in terms of the reunions unless RJ wrote them...

Edited by ArveduiEreinion
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-Rand lives at the end. Like lives a normal life. I can see transcendance into TAR, that's it.

-Egwene lives.

-If Egwenes death isn't excruciatingly painful for her and Gawyne.

-If Fails dies (I want to see Perrin's line continue) .

-If a body swap occurs. That would be the opposite of straight.

Edited by skalors3
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-Rand lives at the end. Like lives a normal life. I can see transcendance into TAR, that's it.

-Egwene lives.

-If Egwenes death isn't excruciatingly painful for her and Gawyne.

-If Fails dies (I want to see Perrin's line continue) .

-If a body swap occurs. That would be the opposite of straight.

 

Can't a brother catch a break? Or a sister for that matter? :)

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If cadsuane doesnt go out with a blaze of glory and brandon makes her culled in front of egwene or moiraine.

 

moiraine siuan didnt have a proper reunion

 

siuan doesnt get control of a circle/powerful tearangreal at the last battle

 

The aes sedai/green ajah dont get coordinated and get some circles going/ linking with men for the last battle. (seriously the whole point of your ajah is being the battle ajah. The battle is here organise urselves, i hope for something on the scale of what egwene did defending against the seanchan)

 

perrin doesnt die

 

atleast some bad stuff happens to the light before the end, i dont want a one sided last battle, i saw someones theory about demandred taking out the lights generals and mat taking over id love this theory.

 

^ like someone else mentioned mat to general the last battle

 

Mats whole pre memories being filled by the snakes explanation on why he knew stuff about manethern etc.

 

verrin doesnt have a hidden card in play and her letters end up being a let down.

 

demandred doesnt kill rand/think he does

 

malkier doesnt have some sort of comeback.

 

more random aes sedai we havent heard of before pop up (heck use some that are mentioned in new spring that havent been mentioned in ages or any aes sedai we have hundreds we dont need more this late)

 

no word on the shara continent. (there is a last battle occuring and one of the biggest continents fulled with channelers isnt going to be affected? even tho they havent been mentioned much it makes sense)

 

i know alot of these aint going to come true but i can only hope

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- The DO is killed. I don't care who by, Rand would be the most satisfying, but I would still be annoyed. By Fain, I would eat my book. 

 

- Fain replaces the DO. Again, eat my book. 

 

- Rand and Demandred don't meet. It is the greatest rivalry in the series, I would be extremely annoyed if they don't at least meet face to face, in whatever situation. 

 

- If the Forsaken don't do something good. Knowing RJ's treatment of the Forsaken, they are more like lessons in morality rather than real characters. I can just see every single one of them ending up as caricatures. Moridin is defeated by logic - Lanfear dies in a jealous rage - Graendal is killed by her over-indulgence - Moghedien gets tangled up in her own webs - Demandred is finished by someone other than Rand keeping in theme with his "almost first" thing. I hope at least one of them is given a bit of character and does something realistic. 

 

- Time goes Linear.

 

- If someone other than Rand seals the bore. It has to be him or I will be annoyed. If it is Rand doing something heroic to allow some other guy to seal it, I will be annoyed.

 

-  Rand goes all Dark again. It has already happened, time to move on. (This does not include 13x13, possession because of TP use or the Flaw in Callandor. I mean if he just goes Dark by himself or someone makes him sad.) 

 

- Egwene doesn't screw something up at least once. This isn't a hating on her, but she has hardly put a foot wrong in the last 4 books. Meanwhile, we get Rand, Mat and Perrin screwing up all the time. If she goes through the book flawless and everyone else around her is making mistakes, I will be annoyed - it would just be unrealistic. Even Rand in his new-improved form makes mistakes. 

 

- Moiraine and Rand don't meet for a large portion of the book. I would hate if they meet like a few minutes before sealing the bore where she gives him vital info and they go and win. 

 

- Gawyn kills Rand out of hatred. It would be extremely annoying. The theories surrounding it are good, but I'd be annoyed. I wouldn't mind if he kills Rand because he is 13x13'd or because Rand asks Egwene to do it - but not randomly because of some lingering or re-ignited hatred. 

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- The DO is killed. I don't care who by, Rand would be the most satisfying, but I would still be annoyed. By Fain, I would eat my book. 

 

- Fain replaces the DO. Again, eat my book. 

 

- Rand and Demandred don't meet. It is the greatest rivalry in the series, I would be extremely annoyed if they don't at least meet face to face, in whatever situation. 

 

- If the Forsaken don't do something good. Knowing RJ's treatment of the Forsaken, they are more like lessons in morality rather than real characters. I can just see every single one of them ending up as caricatures. Moridin is defeated by logic - Lanfear dies in a jealous rage - Graendal is killed by her over-indulgence - Moghedien gets tangled up in her own webs - Demandred is finished by someone other than Rand keeping in theme with his "almost first" thing. I hope at least one of them is given a bit of character and does something realistic. 

 

- Time goes Linear.

 

- If someone other than Rand seals the bore. It has to be him or I will be annoyed. If it is Rand doing something heroic to allow some other guy to seal it, I will be annoyed.

 

-  Rand goes all Dark again. It has already happened, time to move on. (This does not include 13x13, possession because of TP use or the Flaw in Callandor. I mean if he just goes Dark by himself or someone makes him sad.) 

 

- Egwene doesn't screw something up at least once. This isn't a hating on her, but she has hardly put a foot wrong in the last 4 books. Meanwhile, we get Rand, Mat and Perrin screwing up all the time. If she goes through the book flawless and everyone else around her is making mistakes, I will be annoyed - it would just be unrealistic. Even Rand in his new-improved form makes mistakes. 

 

- Moiraine and Rand don't meet for a large portion of the book. I would hate if they meet like a few minutes before sealing the bore where she gives him vital info and they go and win. 

 

- Gawyn kills Rand out of hatred. It would be extremely annoying. The theories surrounding it are good, but I'd be annoyed. I wouldn't mind if he kills Rand because he is 13x13'd or because Rand asks Egwene to do it - but not randomly because of some lingering or re-ignited hatred. 

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- Egwene doesn't screw something up at least once. This isn't a hating on her, but she has hardly put a foot wrong in the last 4 books. Meanwhile, we get Rand, Mat and Perrin screwing up all the time. If she goes through the book flawless and everyone else around her is making mistakes, I will be annoyed - it would just be unrealistic. Even Rand in his new-improved form makes mistakes. 

 

Not true IMO. Her blind focus on Mesaana for the deaths in the tower, ignoring Gawyn's/Sleet's evidence, almost cost her her life.

 

But I hear ya

Edited by Finnssss
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 cool thread idea!

Let's see, a few things I really don't want to see.

 

-Any deux ex machina or ad hoc devices. Not in the last book of an epic series please. Don't want no more new weaves, completely unguessable borderlander prophecies, new objects of power that were not in some way hinted at before and so on. Please, no more world building of any kind. not in the last book.

Use what you got already. There is plenty to choose from.

 

-Any more introductions of totally flat new minor characters instead of using old developed ones. Don't want to see any more Kerts or Reeds, Narg take them all.

 

-Land of the Madmen is mentioned even once.

 

-Shara plays more than a perfunctory role

 

-Nakomi turns out to be one of the Jenn Aiel who lived in secret from the other Aiel for thousands of years.

 

-Tuon is not punished in some way for her attitude to turning people into animals.

 

-Any Forsaken turn back to the Light. None of them deserve  redemption.

 

 

@Barid   I have written up a post a while ago  arguing that a number of things you fear (linear Time, Rand or Fain killing or replacing the DO will not happen). So I think you are mostly safe there.

Edited by herid
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Finssss: Yeah, a fair enough point, still, not really enough of a mistake for me. All of the TR 5 apart from Egwene have made major mistakes. Rand with a heap, topping the list being the neglect of the BT, his reluctance killing women, Darkness Rand. 

 

Perrin with Aram, Masema, the whole Faile-obsession (which includes the former) - always doing other stupid things and not accepting responsibility. 

 

Mat with the Dagger, getting messed around by the Finns (although it turned out good, still, a stupid thing to do)  always avoiding responsibility like Perrin. Miscellaneous other stupid things. 

 

Nynaeve - Captured a few times for being silly. Makes small stupid mistakes regularly until ToM, Sea Folk bargain, the whole Moghedien thing with Birgitte etc... 

 

 

Egwene though, she hasn't done anything wrong for like 4 books. The ToM incident was a logical mistake. It wasn't her being stupid or just screwing up, she just got something wrong. Even her being captured wasn't her being stupid, rather it was more because she was betrayed. 

 

I would just like to see her to get something plain wrong. Act on her emotions and do something irrational. I would like her more for it, even if it screws up things temporarily. (It wouldn't really get me angry - I would just be exasperated. Who likes a hero who doesn't do something stupid once in a while? I would love to see a bit of tDR Egwene come out when she lashes out at the Whitecloaks approaching Tar Valon. Something like that.) 

 

 

Herid: yeah, that is basically why I would hate for them to happen, because it would be against the whole WoT concept. 

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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The ones that I expect to happen that will annoy me.

 

- It's not clear to all the AS and Egwene that Rand deftly manipulated her into doing exactly what he wanted.

 

- And following on from that, she dances away from publicly having to admit Rand was right and she was wrong about the Seals.

 

The ones that will probably happen that would annoy me.

 

- No '2nd tier' character dies - one of Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, Moraine (permanently), Avi, Min, Faile, Suian, Gawyn, Galad, Fortuona, Loial kicks the bucket. Now I like a few of these, but hello Last Battle.

 

- And even more if AT LEAST two '3rd tier' characters don't die - Amys, Melaine, Bair, Sorilea, Rhuarc, Lan, Cadsuane, Logain, Tam, Leanne, Bashere, Bryne, Ituralde, Gaul, Bain, Chiad. It's the Last Battle, time for someone other than red-shirts to die.

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Hrm....  So many possibilities...

 

-If Lan, Moiraine & Thom are alive at the end, I will be annoyed.  They are the "parental" figures of this story, and its time they die so the heroes can grow up

 

-If the Wheel keeps on Turning the same as before.  I personally am one for linear time, but doesn't necessarily have to be that, per se.  There is a reason RJ chose this specific turning of the Wheel to tell his story in, and if at the end, the Wheel keeps turning the same, I'll be annoyed.

 

-Rand is alive at the end.  His whole battle with possibly turning to the Dark is basically whether or not he can accept dying to save the world.  Well, if he has accepted it, his sacrifice NEEDS to be dying to save the world.  Does he deserve to have to peace and happiness after all he's gone through?  Yes.  But that's why his ultimate sacrifice will be so meaningful.  He really DOES sacrifice himself.  If he comes back to live at the end in any way, that cheapens that sacrifice, IMO

 

-if the Spring Pole from Emond's Field in tEotW doesn't play some important or significant role in the story.  Every time I re-read tEotW, it just seems to stick out more and more to me. It's GOTTA MEAN SOMETHING!

 

-1 of the Forsaken or Fain don't turn back to the Light at some point.  If they don't, then why the hell does the saying of "No one can stand so long in the Shadow that they can't come back to the Light." even exist?!  I mean, that has been mentioned WAY too many times to not have import.  Asmodean, Verin, & Ingtar don't really qualify for this.  Asmodean would have, except he was forced to, Verin never really stood in the Shadow, and same with Ingtar to a degree. Somebody BIG from the Shadow has got to Turn back, or I will be somewhat annoyed. (On a side note, I don't WANT Fain to turn back to the Light, but he is the only other character who has stood far enough in the shadow to qualify for this quote besides the Forsaken, IMO.  Mmmmmaaaayyyybbbeee Daved Hanlon (sp?) from the White Lions would count too, but he seems destined to be killed by either Birgitte, Aviendha, Elayne, or Galad, I think)

 

-If someone whom I don't really expect/want to die doesn't die.  This is the last book ever of WoT.  I want some surprise moments, and I want some tears to flow.  I want to feel something similar to the first time I read through tFoH where it looks like Moiraine, Mat, Asmodean, and Aviendha all bite it in very quick succession at first.  I was mad at the book at the time, but it also caused real emotions on my part while reading it, and for this, I want some real emotion.

 

-Find out about the ALL CAPS VOICE FROM TEOTW.  I have suspected that this might have been an early book error by RJ, but I am soooo damned curious about that voice, I want to know who it was

 

-Seanchan society towards slavery/damane stays the exact same and they look to be the pre-eminent civilization post-TG.  That would annoy me a lot.  After all these books, and after going through all of this, you are telling me that evil still wins?!?!?!?!  Really?!?!?!?!  I'd much rather have the DO win it all than have the Seanchan be poised to conquer all by using slaves to do it.  I don't need complete abolishment of damane and slaves, or the destruction of Seanchan as whole, but there better be some signs that change is a happening...

 

-Aviendha's vision looks to be the probable future.  I really don't think it is going to happen, but I'd be annoyed if it did, and so makes the list

Edited by DaoineSidhe
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-Moiraine dying. Or left without an important role post-TG. 100x the anger if she's disrespected and takes it.

-Gawyn living happily ever after. Extra anger if he's an OP learner and lives 400yrs of it.

-Logain's glory coming with a nasty twist.

-Tuon coming to admire or like Egwene. Reluctant allies and no more please. 

-No happy ending for Nyn. Worse, if she's the only one.

-Egwene never realizing that at 18 she can be a woolhead too sometimes.

-Rand dying via assisted suicide. Extra anger if he begs for it.

-Min or Elayne dying, and worse if Rand lives on without either.

-A Molly Weasley moment.

 

 

Inevitable, I know, but will be pissed anyways and sniff very loudly:

-Tenobia and Bashere dying for Perrin and Faile to take the crown. Expected and boring.

-Not a single one of the main six dying permanently.

-No huge changes to borders/nations/institutions as Randland isn't completely and utterly devastated during TG.

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Hrm....  So many possibilities...

 

-If Lan, Moiraine & Thom are alive at the end, I will be annoyed.  They are the "parental" figures of this story, and its time they die so the heroes can grow up

 

Moiraine dieing again would give me little feeling toward her character. She was suppose to be dead for the last 7 books we already accepted that she died, even tho it was heavily foreshadowed otherwise. Why would you want moiraine to come back and then just die again? seems pointless. Its like getting gandalf killed at the battle helms deep we already thought he died why kill him again? it feels odd to me that so many people want her character to die.

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Hrm....  So many possibilities...

 

-If Lan, Moiraine & Thom are alive at the end, I will be annoyed.  They are the "parental" figures of this story, and its time they die so the heroes can grow up

 

Moiraine dieing again would give me little feeling toward her character. She was suppose to be dead for the last 7 books we already accepted that she died, even tho it was heavily foreshadowed otherwise. Why would you want moiraine to come back and then just die again? seems pointless. Its like getting gandalf killed at the battle helms deep we already thought he died why kill him again? it feels odd to me that so many people want her character to die.

 

I hate that Gandalf came back, and continued to live and be such a pivital character in LotR.  One of JRR Tolkien's biggest mistakes in writing LotR IMO.  So yes, I would have LOVED to see him bit it at the battle of Helms Deep, or at some other point in the story.  The problem with saying "Moiraine was dead and gone for 7 books" is that we were given hints almost immediately that she'd be back.  Did anyone really think she was gone for good?  She has some important final bits to give to Rand before the end, but in the end, her time is past, and its time for her to go, IMO.

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-Rand gets "happily ever after" in any form.

-DO gets killed and anyone or anything replacing DO.

-If some major characters dont go down in a blaze of glory. Not meaningless deaths, but meaningful sacrifises on their part as well. I don't think anyone really sacrifised much throughout the entire series except for Rand, Mat and Moiraine.

-Please please please no more dead forsaken coming back to life again.

-OP is gone after LB.

-Body swap. I've seen the theories and some have a lot of merit in them, but this whole concept jars me big time.

-If Rand is controlled someway and forced to kill his loved ones(again). Just kill the guy please.

-Tuon or Mat dies. I really hope this doesn't happen.

-Straightening the skirts (ok I cant really see a WoT book without this bit still :) )

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@Barid

 

- Egwene doesn't screw something up at least once. This isn't a hating on her, but she has hardly put a foot wrong in the last 4 books. Meanwhile, we get Rand, Mat and Perrin screwing up all the time. If she goes through the book flawless and everyone else around her is making mistakes, I will be annoyed - it would just be unrealistic. Even Rand in his new-improved form makes mistakes.

 

I think this has more to do with plot than personality.

 

 

Not a spoiler - but possibly off topic, so I'll hide it :)

 

 

This is one thing I think hasn't annoyed me (don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater, but I don't like her (personality, as a leader she's great)). In the position she's in she couldn't have made any mistakes since becoming Amrylin, if she had made any she'd have become a puppet. Consequently her leadership has gone fairly smoothly, but even so there were a couple of mistakes (imo).

 

She left the rebels alone too long while captive in the Tower and underestimated the damage her absence was doing there.

 

Additionally she massively misjudged the testing for Nyn and probably should have seperated herself from administering the test in the first place. Her second addition was added in as the last of the weaves, I doubt that it was this that made the test the worst the AS had ever seen (including ones that killed the tested). This is of a similar nature to spying on Avi's dreams when learning to be a dreamwalker or that scene in TAR with Nyn (or indeed jockeying for position with Nyn in tDR)

 

So although she hasn't made massive mistakes, she doesn't have the benefit of being taveren so couldn't afford to make them, (if she had then the story would (by default) have become much more Eg focused, and although could have made an interesting story it would have taken even longer to finish, and wouldn't then be about Rand as much). Even so, the story has allowed her to make the mistakes it's possible for her to make and not become a puppet - it's possible that now she's united the Tower and has marginally more stability that the story can allow her to make more mistakes, but it's really not had the leeway to do this in the recent few books.

 

Plus what Finnsss said about Mesanna

 

 

 

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Any of linear time, the DO dying, Fain replacing the DO, etc.

 

If Fain plays an overtly Gollum role at the end.

 

Rand doesn't die.

 

More than one main character doesn't die.

 

Elayne doesn't die. Seriously, we've been forced to endure chapter after chapter of her being a bad leader and person who doesn't put their own ambitions below the Last Battle. I demand recompensense!

 

We don't get some sort of tie back in with what happened at the end of TEOTW (the voice of the Creator) and TGH (the battle over Falme). (RJ knew the ending when he wrote those--why should we assume they are "early bookisms"?)

 

A handful of other tropes have been overdone at this point: winning over orgs by sheer logic, the Supergirls foolishly falling into a trap (unless they die, then it's cool), Rand captured, Rand unable to hurt women.

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I will echo others by saying the body swap would really be a jarring tonal shift, and though I maybe would forego eating my book because of it, I would roll my eyes.

 

If it turns out this turning of the wheel is essentially nothing special, and we can expect an infinite number of Rands in the future doing similar stuff, I would be disappointed.

 

I agree there should be some death, along with some palatable sense of danger. I would like to see someone major die early, so we really do not know who makes it through. And please let major deaths be obvious, and on screen. Sammael's death still frustrates me.

 

If Seanchan wins. If the plight of damane is essentially unchanged. If Elayne takes a bath.

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