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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Chekhov's gun


skalors3
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Sorry this theory is presented so dirty, but the simple becomes difficult on a kindle.

 

My true investigations is to prove that Roderan is simply a Proxy for Dem (good luck, I know. I have had Roderan as Dem since WH). It is just my gut.

 

Anyways, I digress. During my research into the aforementioned topic I came across what I believe to be a fantastic candidate for the gun in TDR.

 

Again sorry for the lack of excerpts, it is difficult and I always lose my posts.

 

Shara is the gun.

 

TDR CH 39 Mentioned in passing by Egwene. Connected to Cairhairen (sp?) But it isn't really necessary.

 

In addition, it certainly has been hanging around.

 

LoC CH 6 and 17

WH 28

 

That is just a few I know of off of the top of my head.

 

I still maintain that Dem is in Shara and Roderan is a proxy.

 

Anyways, short and sweet.

Edited by skalors3
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LOL that is because I am an idiot. Edited to include Shara is the gun.

 

I had two beautiful posts on this and one was lost while switching to a book for an excerpt and the other lost because of these attacks on DM.

 

So I just tossed this together.

Edited by skalors3
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I don't think Shara was lampshaded. I think it is there for world building purposes, and RJ made an effort to make sure it was ruled out by the 'it is too far away from the centre' comment.

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Not sure what to say to that. Considering that it was Sammaels opinion (and possibly foreshadowing) and that Shara borders the blight I would disagree with the assessment.

 

The only other purpose would be outrigger novels RJ had originally planned.

Edited by skalors3
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the only way Shara is mentioned in TDR, ch 39 is as follows.

 

 

Much of Cairhien’s wealth had been built on the trade in ivory and perfumes and spices and, most of all, silk, from the lands beyond the Waste. ... According to Verin, not only had Cairhien’s trade across the Waste ended with the war, but those Cairhienin who ventured into the Waste now vanished. Verin claimed they were said to be “sold as animals” in the lands beyond the Waste, but not even she understood how a man or a woman could be sold.
There is absolutely nothing of Demandred in this. The only thing that might qualify a Chekov's gun here is if we'll see a person who's been sold into slavery in Shara. I don't think we've seen any yet and it would be a decent Chekov's gun if one does show up. I actually rather like this idea the more I think about it. Most other suggestions that I've seen would not be Chekov's guns in a strict sense. This one would though. Edited by herid
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@Herid As I said earlier it wasn't a well articulated post. I spent about 40 minutes on a fantastic post that was lost. So this is what I had to give afterwards.

 

That being said, I wasn't using this as evidence for Demandred being in Shara. I was simply explaining why I even came across this passage ; and that was because I was investigating a hunch that Dem is in Shara. I have no evidence for that.

 

The intent was to present a theory that Shara is the gun. Something about Shara. I spent a long time looking at these chapters after BS made that original tweet and I never came across this. However, Shara seems like the best option I have seen anywhere.

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Not sure what to say to that. Considering that it was Sammaels opinion (and possibly foreshadowing) and that Shara borders the blight I would disagree with the assessment.

 

The only other purpose would be outrigger novels RJ had originally planned.

 

Or the novels grew so large that, whatever RJ's original plan, he may have just thought it would be too much to involve Shara.

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That could be possible too. However, if that was the case it is my opinion that it would have sufficiently been written out the story in LoC chapter 6. Yet it was mentioned again in, at least' WH.

 

Also Herid, it was also mentioned again in that same chapter a few paragraphs before of after your quote.

Edited by skalors3
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@Herid As I said earlier it wasn't a well articulated post. I spent about 40 minutes on a fantastic post that was lost.

I'm sure it would have been a post for the ages :) Seriously, I've ran into such problems too after the DDOS attack started (is it still going on?) and I now always copy everything to the buffer before hitting "post".

So this is what I had to give afterwards.

 

That being said, I wasn't using this as evidence for Demandred being in Shara.

sorry, my mistake.

 

I was simply explaining why I even came across this passage ; and that was because I was investigating a hunch that Dem is in Shara. I have no evidence for that.

 

The intent was to present a theory that Shara is the gun. Something about Shara. I spent a long time looking at these chapters after BS made that original tweet and I never came across this. However, Shara seems like the best option I have seen anywhere.

 something about Shara is too amorphous. BS was clearly referring to something rather specific that's first mentioned somewhere in TDR ch 30-40. Some Cairhienin sold into slavery in Shara showing up in AMOL would qualify.

 

That could be possible too. However, if that was the case it is my opinion that it would have sufficiently been written out the story in LoC chapter 6. Yet it was mentioned again in, at least' WH.

 

Also Herid, it was also mentioned again in that same chapter a few paragraphs before of after your quote.

I just reread that chapter and I don't see anything else Shara related there.

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Pardon my asking, but I don't remember when they first mention that the Aiel send male chanelers into the blight. Was it in DR? That was a "chekov's gun" but not sure if it is the one Brandon is refering to.

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@Herid I am on a kindle and those attacks time out my shitty browser.

 

Here is the other obscure reference.

 

" Much of Cairhien’s wealth had been built on the trade in ivory and perfumes and spices and, most of all, silk, from the lands beyond the Waste."

 

I did not say it was important, I was simply saying it was there.

 

Also, the gun didn't have to be someone selling a person into slavery, it could be the slave population as a whole. They acknowledge that there are slaves in Shara. Later it is referenced that there is war in Shara for the first time and thanks to RJs notes we know that the majority of the population are slaves. Sounds like a brain -washed country easy to control with a large mass of people that can be discarded for war.

 

@Centauri. I will try and find out when that was mentioned.

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A piece of advice. Write your theory on notepad, wordpad, Mircosoft Word or whatever offline program you have at your disposal. Save your theory, then copy the text & paste it here on this board. It'll limit the time you'll have to spend online & even if your browser fails, all you have to do is try to paste it again.

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I'm really sorry, but I don't quite get where you're going with this. I'd be really grateful were you able to prepare this theory in full detail.

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getting back to the topic, there is a definite Chekov's gun in TDR ch 25. This is outside of the range of chapters given by BS so he clearly meant something but it's still interesting.

 

One of the ter'angreal stolen by Linadrin and her group is six spotted dice, joined at the corners. It's supposed to alter chance and Nyn that Mat would like it. Every other item discussed in that scene showed up later. I'm sure this one will too. Most likely Mat and his luck somehow will have to duke it out with whoever has this ter'angreal.

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I re-read the chapters today and I came across something I'd noticed before but never thought of in this context.
ch 34 - Perrin speaks to an Aiel for the first time (although he had seen one before)- he rescues Gaul and introduces himself formally - as a blacksmith.

We know that blacksmiths are particularly respected by the Aiel; you can't start a feud with one, killing one is as bad as killing a child or a WO, in certain circumstances even a roofmistress will take orders from one, you're supposed to show proper courtesy when addressing one... etc.
But, we don't know why. We don't know if there are additional privileges and responsibilities that go with being a blacksmith.
Maybe this is all just because it's a valuable skill, necessary to the Aiel's survival and there is nothing more to it.
But, maybe, at some point Perrin will find himself with more authority, resources or responsibility than he realizes he has.

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I read most of tDR yesterday and I did ponder on subject. I felt confident bout Mat's luck as it certainly has helped but it hasn't been vital that much - Till tower of Ghenjei, which debunks the idea I suspect.

 

Another thing that bugged me on those chapters is whole mountains of mists being unlucky - it was refered also in first book and while horn of Valere wasn't there like Faile suspected, it was logical assumption. I remember boys bragging to Thom for being there and the whole unlucky being reason for it in the first book. But I can't see a way to use that in last book for anything.

 

Ps. I am likely trying to figure it out again tomorrow, forgot my book home today.

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Mat's luck, specifically where it came from:

 

"The luck had come once he took the dagger from Shadar Logoth."

 

this has been discussed earlier. BS's quote says that the Chekov's gun in question is not a very big one, smaller than the 13x13 turning for sure. If the issue of the origins of  Mat's luck comes back it has to come back in a meaningful way. For example, it might turn out that Mat's link with the dagger was not fully severed. This has  been hinted it in TDR, ch 19 when Mat wakes up after being Healed and thinks of the dagger and the ruby. But this is outside of the range of the chapters listed by BS (chapters 30-40) and also, it would be a pretty big thing if it turns out that Mat is still tied to the dagger and it has some plot relevant effects on him. And if his luck has a connection to the DO then it would be an even bigger deal IMO. So I don't think Mat's luck can be what BS meant.

Edited by herid
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Mat's luck, specifically where it came from:

 

"The luck had come once he took the dagger from Shadar Logoth."

 

this has been discussed earlier. BS's quote says that the Chekov's gun in question is not a very big one, smaller than the 13x13 turning for sure. If the issue of the origins of  Mat's luck comes back it has to come back in a meaningful way. For example, it might turn out that Mat's link with the dagger was not fully severed. This has  been hinted it in TDR, ch 19 when Mat wakes up after being Healed and thinks of the dagger and the ruby. But this is outside of the range of the chapters listed by BS (chapters 30-40) and also, it would be a pretty big thing if it turns out that Mat is still tied to the dagger and it has some plot relevant effects on him. And if his luck has a connection to the DO then it would be an even bigger deal IMO. So I don't think Mat's luck can be what BS meant.

The severing is mentioned in Chapter 19, but the quote I gave, where Mat figures out that his luck is somehow tied to his time with the dagger, is in Chapter 30, and thus in the range of the chapters listed by Brandon.

 

Even if the revelation in question is a big one, that doesn't necessarily mean that the effect will be a big one.  Having Mat's luck actually tied to Shadar Logoth or the Dark One may seem like a huge deal, but how it ultimately bears on the plot may be relatively small.  It may, for example, simply play into how the Light-side manages to overcome some obstacle thrown at them by the Dark One or Forsaken.  It's almost the reverse of the Ashandarei situation.  That was a relatively minor revelation that had major results for the plot.

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