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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
bigdoug1971

Things we're tired of hearing about.......

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I check a lot of the websites including the one on Facebook just hoping for intelligent discussion about one of my favorite topics: The Wheel of TIme series.  I'm certain everyone is tired of hearing and seeing certain predictions, posts, and theories that just WILL NOT DIE.

 

One I'm really tired of seeing and hearing about is one of the Forsaken turning back to the light before the end of the books..........  That makes me say "C'mon!" everytime I have to look at that idea.  I'm sorry, but the Forsaken are evil, have done evil deeds, have openly followed and inflicted the Dark One's will on people.  We're talking about the equivilant of SATAN in Randland.  Parents have used their names for thousands of years to frighten children.  Who, on the side of the Light, is going to say to any of the Forsaken, "Allright.  If you want to come back to the Light and fight for us we can really use your help."  Puh-lease!

 

How about the possibility that they could actually make a DECENT movie or series out of the Wheel of Time.  Seriously.  We've all seen this one too.  Does anyone really, in their heart of hearts, think this is a true possibility?  Not that they can make a movie or series, but that anyone would come forth with a budget, good actors, and the willingness to slash the books to nothing to fit them in a timeslot? 

 

 

Anybody else got a few things to add to these?

Edited by bigdoug1971

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Olver = Gaidal Cain.

 

Saidin was tainted because the female AS were not present during the SaSG.

 

All the hate directed at Cads(mainly because she is a big meanie) when she has done more than just about anyone else to help Rand.

Edited by Suttree

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  • Avi's visions in Rhuidean might actually come to pass. Not a snowball's chance in hell this will happen but is still discussed quite often.

OP will disappear after the Last Battle. Totally disproved but still comes up fairly regularly.

Rand will channel TP in sealing the Bore.  Another pretty popular theory with absolutely zero chance of being true.

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Not exactly "tired of hearing about" anything mainly because many of the things, ideas, speculations, and predictions I've thrown out there drew a few cringes from more knowledgeable fans.

 

But I do wonder sometimes about any of the Foresaken surviving the LB. I don't think the pattern will allow it. That said Foresaken's first task would be to reopen the DO's prison. The knowledge that the Bore was drilled seems to be one piece that must disappear.

 

"Logical Rand" as a description of Dark Rand is another one that makes me smile. Rand says that the DO almost had him; yet Dark Rand's actions are defended as an example of AoL reason and logic!

 

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"Logical Rand" as a description of Dark Rand is another one that makes me smile. Rand says that the DO almost had him; yet Dark Rand's actions are defended as an example of AoL reason and logic!

BWAHAH! That one is beyond ludicrous although I haven't seen too many people claim it. No idea how anyone can miss one of the major issues of the entire series in relation to Dark Rand and Ishy pulling the strings playing "both sides" of the Sha'rah board.

Edited by Suttree

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The one that gets me is the whole Brandon hating without directly admitting its Brandon hating. This place is absolutely full to the brim of it these days

I hesitate to respond here as it should most likely go in the thisguy thread but I am pretty surprised to see this view point coming from you Drekka. As Barid recently said...

 

 

 

Indeed, I believe all of his reasonable critics did. As for Yoniy0's statement, again, most of the reasonable critics have the same feeling. Having certain problems with portions of three 800 page books doesn't make one ungrateful or unappreciative of the efforts that have been put in. In fact, it surprises me that this has to be said at all. The fact that we are still reading and caring about the work displays it. Those that are ungrateful and unappreciative have long since stopped reading and posting about it. 

 

Of course, it goes without saying that there have been extremists, but they are few and far between. 

 

As stated above the extremists(Mark D. etc.) are very few and far between. Most people have been clear in stating issues and most others agree with the issues but don't feel as if they should invade every thread(rightly so). The ones who A. purely "hate" Brandon or B. Think the books are without flaws are very few and far between indeed. As Peter Alshtrom recently said the right to critique is a very important thing, I for one can think of no higher compliment to pay an author than a careful study of his work.

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Personally, I'm tired of hearing about every single character or event will be neatly tied off in one final book. I am hoping that the ending is fulfilling, but leaves many questions and the future of a few characters a mystery. We want to continue to talk and debate this awesome story, having it end all shiny would bother me. I know I want to see the LB and the DO get what's coming to him, but personally, I'm fine with using my own imagination in regards to other minor-ish characters and places. Sure, let the book end with the sun setting on the Two River and all, but a little ambiguity will keep this story fresh in our minds for a long long time.

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Personally, I'm tired of hearing about every single character or event will be neatly tied off in one final book. I am hoping that the ending is fulfilling, but leaves many questions and the future of a few characters a mystery. We want to continue to talk and debate this awesome story, having it end all shiny would bother me. .

You are in luck then mate. RJ was very clear that he didn't want everything wrapped up. He wants the world to seems as if it is continuing to move on...

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well hopefully the encyclopedia will be able to tie up and explain a lot of things. shara, land of the madmen, some explanation on those 4th age people and places, what happens with the black and white tower and on and on

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Personally, I grow weary of people who have darn good theories, but cannot abide anyone asking logical questions that undermine them, or having a competing theory that sounds just as good.  There are a few long time members that get very, VERY nasty if you disagree with them.

 

Afterall, this is a place for discussion threads, and if a theory isn't weird, out of the blue, or has already been disproven (aka Taim v. Demandred), they should make their points for or against and move on, not dally and get ugly because their pet theory says something different.  It seems like every long thread has at least 2-3 pages (minimum) of these types of spats that get us nowhere.

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People are obsessed with the Land of Madmen. Correct me if I'm wrong but this was never mentioned in the main text and only in the "World of WoT" accompanying book, right? I'm not ruling it out being used as a base by the shadow or something, but the way people go on about it you'd swear its destined to be pivotal to the main story which is highly unlikely with only one book remaining.

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I tired of hearing about how Rand/Mat/Perrin knows about women and... wait we're talking about on here.

 

 

I'm not really tired of any of it. If a theory has been discussed 1000 times who really cares? I mean if you see the thread discussing it then either ignore the thread or reply what you want to and let it go on. Its easy enough telling someone that their theory is wrong because of extensive discussions X, Y, and Z. No harm and no foul. Or if are tired of the discussion then simply ignore the thread

Edited by Kamin_Majere

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I am tired of all of the mythology "musts".  By this I mean, yes, the characters have certain parrallels to various mythical/religious characters, but it doesn't mean that the characters HAVE TO follow the same path/ending/battles/etc as those mythical/religious characters.

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"Logical Rand" as a description of Dark Rand is another one that makes me smile. Rand says that the DO almost had him; yet Dark Rand's actions are defended as an example of AoL reason and logic!

This is a dig at RJ as much as it is a description of Rand. It only works because the DO is simply trying to break Rand's sanity, not trying to "win" TG in a conventional way. As much as Dark Rand is bad, he's also pragmatic and willing to do what is necessary. Rand Sedai shits sunshine (literally), which is all well and good when you are a ta'veren but also means he'll let possibilities pass--balefiring Natrim's Barrow killed one forsaken and scattered another, and saved lives in the process.

 

It's like the difference between Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister's approaches to politics. Tywin was a more effective leader even if he's a bad dude, and often precisely because he was a bad dude.

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"Logical Rand" as a description of Dark Rand is another one that makes me smile. Rand says that the DO almost had him; yet Dark Rand's actions are defended as an example of AoL reason and logic!

This is a dig at RJ as much as it is a description of Rand. It only works because the DO is simply trying to break Rand's sanity, not trying to "win" TG in a conventional way. As much as Dark Rand is bad, he's also pragmatic and willing to do what is necessary. Rand Sedai shits sunshine (literally), which is all well and good when you are a ta'veren but also means he'll let possibilities pass--balefiring Natrim's Barrow killed one forsaken and scattered another, and saved lives in the process.

 

It's like the difference between Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister's approaches to politics. Tywin was a more effective leader even if he's a bad dude, and often precisely because he was a bad dude.

 

 

He isn't pragmatic; he's Machiavellian. The end justifies the means. Morals are set aside as Rand cannot worry about them any longer. He wants results only. And he doesn't care what kind of world he leaves behind. He wants his rendezvous at Shayol Ghul, and the hell with the world afterwards. Another Breaking where humanity suffers problems that could have been handled better with some leadership.

 

The Land is One with the Dragon. Rand is spoiling the food and causing famine and starvation, not the DO. How is that pragmatic or even justifiable?

 

But we also get more than one reliable reference that Rand's usage of the TP has "wrapped him in darkness." No one is comfortable around him any longer, Min included. He stopped caring if Min will die. He stopped caring about torturing women and killing them. He stopped caring about himself. He doesn't know why he's fighting the DO. He is traumatized by his impending death.

 

He is under extreme pressure because he put himself under it. He doesn't realize that leadership 101 means relying on trusted allies and counselors to help reduce the burden. What does he do to Dobraine after he secured Bander Eban? He exiles him to Tear out of mistrust, even though he led his armsmen to Rand's rescue in Dumai Wells. I wouldn't be surprised if Dobraine isn't as enthusiastic about supporting Rand as before. The man's dedication and sincerity was snubbed! The same can be said of the Aiel; but Rand knows that he cannot afford to lose them as they're what make him what he is in terms of military might.

Edited by Theodril

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He isn't pragmatic; he's Machiavellian. The end justifies the means. Morals are set aside as Rand cannot worry about them any longer. He wants results only. And he doesn't care what kind of world he leaves behind. He wants his rendezvous at Shayol Ghul, and the hell with the world afterwards. Another Breaking where humanity suffers problems that could have been handled better with some leadership.

Except that Rand is still leaving the world with strong leadership when he is done. He didn't appoint a King in Arad Doman, he tried to find the Merchant Council so that when he died the King would remain in power. However, he dominated Arad Doman so that they would show up with all their forces, and would provide a buffer for the Seachan.

The Land is One with the Dragon. Rand is spoiling the food and causing famine and starvation, not the DO. How is that pragmatic or even justifiable?

It's also not logical--generally, food doesn't go spoiling around people because they're feeling grumpy. This is only a problem because RJ says it is--if the moral of the story is that when the health of the land is tied directly to your health you should be in a good mood, then i wouldn't disagree or care.

But we also get more than one reliable reference that Rand's usage of the TP has "wrapped him in darkness." No one is comfortable around him any longer, Min included. He stopped caring if Min will die. He stopped caring about torturing women and killing them. He stopped caring about himself. He doesn't know why he's fighting the DO. He is traumatized by his impending death.

He's also able to run roughshod over any opposition. For the first time in 12 books, Aes Sedai don't dare oppose him or even try to meddle in his affairs. Kings and leaders follow his command instantly, because they're scared shitless of doing anything else. It seems really effective to me--at least until Rand has a psychological breakdown, but i don't think there was an approach that would have prevented that, and Rand's "fuck the world" mantra probably staved it off far longer than trying to care would.

He is under extreme pressure because he put himself under it. He doesn't realize that leadership 101 means relying on trusted allies and counselors to help reduce the burden.

He still keeps around Nynaeve and several Aes Sedai, as well as listening to the advice of Wise Women and other leaders. But he's been shown time and time again that trust fails. He trusted Cadsuane to keep the male a'dam and the Choelan Kal safe, and look where that got him. Most of the Aes Sedai serving him had tried to tie strings around him until her forced and oath of fealty. The only people who seem to be actually trying to help him are Nynaeve and Min--and he keeps them around whenever possible.

What does he do to Dobraine after he secured Bander Eban? He exiles him to Tear out of mistrust, even though he led his armsmen to Rand's rescue in Dumai Wells. I wouldn't be surprised if Dobraine isn't as enthusiastic about supporting Rand as before. The man's dedication and sincerity was snubbed!

Dobraine was given stewardship of Cairhien after saving Rand's life. What he wanted for his services in Arad Doman was a part of Arad Doman, as a foreign ruler. Rand disallowed this for the same reason he insists on getting the Merchant Council. Actually, this is far more of kind!Rand trying to do what is right than dark!Rand trying to do whatever works.

The same can be said of the Aiel; but Rand knows that he cannot afford to lose them as they're what make him what he is in terms of military might.

The Aiel are pretty deep in Rand's pocket, he doesn't need to worry about their loyalty as much. I wouldn't say that Rand's treatment of the Aiel is very well done, and i wouldn't be surprised if it eventually backfired, but Rand has much greater concerns on his plate--securing Seachan alliances, stabilizing countries, dealing with Borderlanders--and the Aiel are the only tool that Rand knows he can trust. Of course, the Aiel also respect Rand's strength on some matters--it was mentioned in tFoH that Rand threatening to hang anyway for trying to take the fifth was an effective way to maintain support. Edited by TNine

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