Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Luckers

The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

Recommended Posts

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up. I thought Nyn had taken the dagger that hides someone from the DO, if not Elayne still has it, either way zen-Rand isn't going to take it without asking. Nor should it be whatever he went to fetch - first off post WT he hasn't been without an Aiel Guard, second people know he went to fetch something, although not knowing what he went to fetch technically means noone knows what he has, it's more of an AS answer then I would have expected (although after Chapter 1, that can't be entirely ruled out).

 

The problem with Bashere having a ter'angreal to protect against Rand is why would one ever be made - this seems to be a new ability, and if I remember the Strike at Shayol Ghul exerpt correctly, LTT didn't have the ability to id DF at a glance - that seems unique to zen Rand. Of all of the solutions this is the one I prefer tho - it makes for an interesting twist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first thought is Bashere and a ter'angreal that protects him from Zen Rand's presence, including the light that blinded Torkumen and drove him insane. I never bought into the Bashere is a darkfriend theory because he was around Rand so much, but this could make it possible.

 

Drat. Ninja'd!! :biggrin:

 

ETA: Twice! :wink:

Edited by FarShainMael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first thought is Bashere and a ter'angreal that protects him from Zen Rand's presence, including the light that blinded Torkumen and drove him insane. I never bought into the Bashere is a darkfriend theory because he was around Rand so much, but this could make it possible.

 

Drat. Ninja'd!! :biggrin:

 

I ninja'd you all muhaha!

 

 

 

 

Bashere: If you subscribe to him being a DF, possibly some kind of protection against Rand's power that seems to out DF's.

 

Note: The time here is 7:28pm in case the time stamp is confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first thought is Bashere and a ter'angreal that protects him from Zen Rand's presence, including the light that blinded Torkumen and drove him insane. I never bought into the Bashere is a darkfriend theory because he was around Rand so much, but this could make it possible.

 

Drat. Ninja'd!! :biggrin:

 

I ninja'd you all muhaha!

 

 

 

 

Bashere: If you subscribe to him being a DF, possibly some kind of protection against Rand's power that seems to out DF's.

 

Note: The time here is 7:28pm in case the time stamp is confusing.

 

It's 9:36am here.. ok, I'll give you that, 'cos I was asleep at the time :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Bashere having a ter'angreal to protect against Rand is why would one ever be made - this seems to be a new ability, and if I remember the Strike at Shayol Ghul exerpt correctly, LTT didn't have the ability to id DF at a glance - that seems unique to zen Rand. Of all of the solutions this is the one I prefer tho - it makes for an interesting twist.

People who can channel have the ability to feel Shadowspawn, or other beings very deep in the Shadow. Then there's that line about "Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One" (going by heart here... so excuse slight mistakes).

Add to that, that Avi found a dagger (a dagger with a hilt made of horn, fandom calls the 'Dull Dagger') in the Ebou Dar Ter'angreal stash that she thinks enables the one carrying it to be unseen by the Shadow.

 

Prophecy said that 'serpents nestle in the bossom'. It helps when you have an item that 'dulls' the awareness of your enemies closeby.

I like to think that the horn hilted dagger Bashere threw at Rand is much like Avi's Dull Dagger.

 

IIRC, when Rand is rightfully furious and ponders on killing Bashere because of his attack, that the 'edge of Rand his anger was dulled' by Bashere himself.

Now it might not be caused by that dagger itself (although I hope so and I'd very much like that, because of the "twin" dagger version), but I do think there's an item protecting Bashere against the Light, much like Avi is protected against the Shadow.

How else would Rand swallow all the bullshit that Bashere fed Rand the first time they met?

 

@BBM & FSM; Nice one Barid. I missed that. Great to see us think alike.

(disclaimer for Suttree; this is just a theory :P)

Edited by Mik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Bashere having a ter'angreal to protect against Rand is why would one ever be made - this seems to be a new ability, and if I remember the Strike at Shayol Ghul exerpt correctly, LTT didn't have the ability to id DF at a glance - that seems unique to zen Rand. Of all of the solutions this is the one I prefer tho - it makes for an interesting twist.

People who can channel have the ability to feel Shadowspawn, or other beings very deep in the Shadow. Then there's that line about "Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One" (going by heart here... so excuse slight mistakes).

Add to that, that Avi found a dagger (a dagger with a hilt made of horn, fandom calls the 'Dull Dagger') in the Ebou Dar Ter'angreal stash that she thinks enables the one carrying it to be unseen by the Shadow.

 

Prophecy said that 'serpents nestle in the bossom'. It helps when you have an item that 'dulls' the awareness of your enemies closeby.

I like to think that the horn hilted dagger Bashere threw at Rand is much like Avi's Dull Dagger.

 

IIRC, when Rand is rightfully furious and ponders on killing Bashere because of his attack, that the 'edge of Rand his anger was dulled' by Bashere himself.

Now it might not be caused by that dagger itself (although I hope so and I'd very much like that, because of the "twin" dagger version), but I do think there's an item protecting Bashere against the Light, much like Avi is protected against the Shadow.

How else would Rand swallow all the bullshit that Bashere fed Rand the first time they met?

 

@BBM & FSM; Nice one Barid. I missed that. Great to see us think alike.

(disclaimer for Suttree; this is just a theory :P)

 

Except their's a difference between what Rand can now do and the standard recognition of shadowspawn. I doubt that the Forsaken would have ever wasted time inventing a ter'angreal to protect shadowspawn when they can simply ward them against detection - Moiraine and the dragkhar in tGH (bear in mind most of the factories they had will have been making actual weapons or angreal). The blunt dagger ter'angreal is also different - we know the dark one can find and touch taveren in their dreams - you have to assume that before the seals the DO was stronger, meaning he's more able to find and touch people (maybe even if they're not taveran) - a ter'angreal to prevent this makes perfect sense. But Rands ability to sense darkfriends seems to be new, so if DF are going undetected anyway, shadowspawn can be warded against detection then I don't see any need for them to invent a ter'angreal to hide from lightsiders.

 

I may be wrong and Rands ability is not new, and I'll be a lot happier if this is what it is instead of a angreal for Rand, but I'm not yet convinced it's the more likely option.

 

Because Rand's a woolheaded idiot? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Bashere having a ter'angreal to protect against Rand is why would one ever be made - this seems to be a new ability, and if I remember the Strike at Shayol Ghul exerpt correctly, LTT didn't have the ability to id DF at a glance - that seems unique to zen Rand. Of all of the solutions this is the one I prefer tho - it makes for an interesting twist.

People who can channel have the ability to feel Shadowspawn, or other beings very deep in the Shadow. Then there's that line about "Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One" (going by heart here... so excuse slight mistakes).

Add to that, that Avi found a dagger (a dagger with a hilt made of horn, fandom calls the 'Dull Dagger') in the Ebou Dar Ter'angreal stash that she thinks enables the one carrying it to be unseen by the Shadow.

 

Prophecy said that 'serpents nestle in the bossom'. It helps when you have an item that 'dulls' the awareness of your enemies closeby.

I like to think that the horn hilted dagger Bashere threw at Rand is much like Avi's Dull Dagger.

 

IIRC, when Rand is rightfully furious and ponders on killing Bashere because of his attack, that the 'edge of Rand his anger was dulled' by Bashere himself.

Now it might not be caused by that dagger itself (although I hope so and I'd very much like that, because of the "twin" dagger version), but I do think there's an item protecting Bashere against the Light, much like Avi is protected against the Shadow.

How else would Rand swallow all the bullshit that Bashere fed Rand the first time they met?

 

@BBM & FSM; Nice one Barid. I missed that. Great to see us think alike.

(disclaimer for Suttree; this is just a theory :P)

 

Except their's a difference between what Rand can now do and the standard recognition of shadowspawn....

So? Just because a tool has several purposes, even purposes that have a bigger scope/ effect then intended when made, don't mean those tools were never made.

May I remind you of how the Bowl of Winds was used well beyond the scope and intend with which it was made.

 

 

..... I doubt that the Forsaken would have ever wasted time inventing a ter'angreal to protect shadowspawn when they can simply ward them against detection...

Again, a lot of slightly different tools (ter'angreal) were made with the intend to have similar effects. How many different ter'angreal have we seen that enable someone -channelers and/ or non-channelers- to enter Tar? Five? Or for communicating over long distances? I can think of three of the top of my head (2 in the stash and we see Sammael use one to communicate with the Shaido).

Regardless of who made them and with exactly what intend, there are still loads of ter'angreal with lots and lots of different (sometimes silly) purposes.

 

If a tool could be made -and apparently was made given the fact Avi has it- that hides the bearer from the Shadow (Avi stated Trollocs and Myrddraal for sure ,..and perhaps even Shai'tan itself), it's not a big stretch that one could be made hiding the bearer from the Light's 'radar'. That Weaves exist that do something similar-ish isn't a point against this tool existing. It's a point in favour, I'd say!

 

 

- Moiraine and the dragkhar in tGH (bear in mind most of the factories they had will have been making actual weapons or angreal).

How you would consider a tool with the ability to drop off the radar of your enemy to not be a weapon, is beyond me. It's a mighty weapon; cloacking / invisibility / something similar.

 

The blunt dagger ter'angreal is also different - we know the dark one can find and touch taveren in their dreams - you have to assume that before the seals the DO was stronger, meaning he's more able to find and touch people (maybe even if they're not taveran) - a ter'angreal to prevent this makes perfect sense.

Avi said that the Dull Dagger hid from Trollocs and Myrddraal and perhaps even from Shai'tan. Again, I don't see any problem for a 'twin' Dull Dagger to exist.

 

(sidenote; wouldn't it be a great read to see Avi dancing and Singing as the Dedicated once did to Jaric in the Age of Legends at Tzora to help remind this 'madman' who he was, all alone, surrounded by thousands of Trollocs and Myrddraal?

On the Last Day, the Aiel left to defend the Car'a'carn will take their places of old, lock arms and sing, to help remind Lews Therin / Rand who they are in the madness at the heart of the dark. They will honour the Covenant and will throw down their weapons, show true courage in the face of death and help the true 'Servant of All' in the Dream with his battle with Shai'tan through song, trying to keep the chaos at bay. How would it tear at your soul, to see all the Aiel present slaugthered to a man, and to see Aviendha -tears on her eyes- singing and dancing alone among thousands and thousands of Shadowspawn that can't see her?)

 

But Rands ability to sense darkfriends seems to be new, so if DF are going undetected anyway, shadowspawn can be warded against detection then I don't see any need for them to invent a ter'angreal to hide from lightsiders.

Did you see a need for a ter'angreal that stores music? It exists, you know.

And even though there are weaves for most -if not all- ter'angreal that exist, they were made. Just because it's neat to be able to do some things without active channeling, or without a channeler present. It makes sense, so I don't see your point about 'channelers being able to weave a ward' as being a point against a ter'angreal existing that wards from Light at all. Again, the proven existence of a ward against detection is a point in my favour, I think.

 

 

I may be wrong and Rands ability is not new, and I'll be a lot happier if this is what it is instead of a angreal for Rand, but I'm not yet convinced it's the more likely option.

Most of the time, there's a reason certain sayings exist. If you see what became of Torkumen and how people who do very stupid things are often called 'Light-blinded fools', the similarities are funny. *shrugs*

 

I don't think it matters if Rand's ability is new, although I doubt that it is;

On top of Dragonmount, Rand finally became the unblinded Dragon (the blind man seeing again).

 

 

Because Rand's a woolheaded idiot? :)

LOL.

Rand came up with how to remove the Taint from Saidin...and it worked too!

Someone we know to be a genius (Demandred; RJ told us his IQ once), thought it a brilliant plan. (regardless of how dangerous it was; I doubt any plan doing this would be safe)

 

:)

Edited by Mik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure I feel strongly enough to keep arguing but...

 

The problem with Bashere having a ter'angreal to protect against Rand is why would one ever be made - this seems to be a new ability, and if I remember the Strike at Shayol Ghul exerpt correctly, LTT didn't have the ability to id DF at a glance - that seems unique to zen Rand. Of all of the solutions this is the one I prefer tho - it makes for an interesting twist.

People who can channel have the ability to feel Shadowspawn, or other beings very deep in the Shadow. Then there's that line about "Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One" (going by heart here... so excuse slight mistakes).

Add to that, that Avi found a dagger (a dagger with a hilt made of horn, fandom calls the 'Dull Dagger') in the Ebou Dar Ter'angreal stash that she thinks enables the one carrying it to be unseen by the Shadow.

 

Prophecy said that 'serpents nestle in the bossom'. It helps when you have an item that 'dulls' the awareness of your enemies closeby.

I like to think that the horn hilted dagger Bashere threw at Rand is much like Avi's Dull Dagger.

 

IIRC, when Rand is rightfully furious and ponders on killing Bashere because of his attack, that the 'edge of Rand his anger was dulled' by Bashere himself.

Now it might not be caused by that dagger itself (although I hope so and I'd very much like that, because of the "twin" dagger version), but I do think there's an item protecting Bashere against the Light, much like Avi is protected against the Shadow.

How else would Rand swallow all the bullshit that Bashere fed Rand the first time they met?

 

@BBM & FSM; Nice one Barid. I missed that. Great to see us think alike.

(disclaimer for Suttree; this is just a theory :P)

 

Except their's a difference between what Rand can now do and the standard recognition of shadowspawn....

So? Just because a tool has several purposes, even purposes that have a bigger scope/ effect then intended when made, don't mean those tools were never made.

May I remind you of how the Bowl of Winds was used well beyond the scope and intend with which it was made.

 

But the Bowl had an original purpose. I still don't see the use of a light-blinding dagger, given that DF were already undetected and shadowsapwn could be warded. I doubt (personal opinion) that any channeler capable of making such a ter'angreal would bother making something to protect a shadowspawn creature - People that choose the dark tend towards the selfish, why spend the time on a ter'angreal that is unnecessary when they can make an angreal which they can use and may give them an edge in battle.

 

..... I doubt that the Forsaken would have ever wasted time inventing a ter'angreal to protect shadowspawn when they can simply ward them against detection...

Again, a lot of slightly different tools (ter'angreal) were made with the intend to have similar effects. How many different ter'angreal have we seen that enable someone -channelers and/ or non-channelers- to enter Tar? Five? Or for communicating over long distances? I can think of three of the top of my head (2 in the stash and we see Sammael use one to communicate with the Shaido).

Regardless of who made them and with exactly what intend, there are still loads of ter'angreal with lots and lots of different (sometimes silly) purposes.

 

If a tool could be made -and apparently was made given the fact Avi has it- that hides the bearer from the Shadow (Avi stated Trollocs and Myrddraal for sure ,..and perhaps even Shai'tan itself), it's not a big stretch that one could be made hiding the bearer from the Light's 'radar'. That Weaves exist that do something similar-ish isn't a point against this tool existing. It's a point in favour, I'd say!

 

But the DO can find and affect Lightsiders - the same isn't true in reverse (at least not the same way) - As the DO gains strength his ability to warp minds increases, before VoG we have no evidence that Lightsiders can warp DO back to the Light. The Lightsiders have a very good reason to need a ter'angreal like this, the Darksiders none. I guess it's possible, that not knowing how the blunt dagger was made, it's possible to reverse the effects of one that works the same way - and if this is true then it's the most likely cause. But you still haven't explained 'why bother?'

 

- Moiraine and the dragkhar in tGH (bear in mind most of the factories they had will have been making actual weapons or angreal).

How you would consider a tool with the ability to drop off the radar of your enemy to not be a weapon, is beyond me. It's a mighty weapon; cloacking / invisibility / something similar.

 

Very useful, I suspect most channelers would prefer an angreal :) Also assuming that the Forsaken (13 plus the rest at the time) are in charge, they're far more likely (in general) to champion making things that aid them, personally, directly, fellow non-channeler DF a very distand 2nd and shadowspawn way way way behind in 3rd. Again this is my personal opinion of how the Forsaken work, based largely on Verins comments. (?) inventor of shadowspawn may differ in priorities a little.

 

The blunt dagger ter'angreal is also different - we know the dark one can find and touch taveren in their dreams - you have to assume that before the seals the DO was stronger, meaning he's more able to find and touch people (maybe even if they're not taveran) - a ter'angreal to prevent this makes perfect sense.

Avi said that the Dull Dagger hid from Trollocs and Myrddraal and perhaps even from Shai'tan. Again, I don't see any problem for a 'twin' Dull Dagger to exist.

 

I don't have any problem with multiple 'Dull daggers' existing, indeed it's almost certain that during the WoS every lightsider had one, but I don't know if it's possible to completely corrupt the purpose of a ter'angreal - the closest we come to seeing this is when Avi changes the glass pillars, (if she does).

 

(sidenote; wouldn't it be a great read to see Avi dancing and Singing as the Dedicated once did to Jaric in the Age of Legends at Tzora to help remind this 'madman' who he was, all alone, surrounded by thousands of Trollocs and Myrddraal?

On the Last Day, the Aiel left to defend the Car'a'carn will take their places of old, lock arms and sing, to help remind Lews Therin / Rand who they are in the madness at the heart of the dark. They will honour the Covenant and will throw down their weapons, show true courage in the face of death and help the true 'Servant of All' in the Dream with his battle with Shai'tan through song, trying to keep the chaos at bay. How would it tear at your soul, to see all the Aiel present slaugthered to a man, and to see Aviendha -tears on her eyes- singing and dancing alone among thousands and thousands of Shadowspawn that can't see her?)

 

A good read, but horribly twisted.

 

But Rands ability to sense darkfriends seems to be new, so if DF are going undetected anyway, shadowspawn can be warded against detection then I don't see any need for them to invent a ter'angreal to hide from lightsiders.

Did you see a need for a ter'angreal that stores music? It exists, you know.

And even though there are weaves for most -if not all- ter'angreal that exist, they were made. Just because it's neat to be able to do some things without active channeling, or without a channeler present. It makes sense, so I don't see your point about 'channelers being able to weave a ward' as being a point against a ter'angreal existing that wards from Light at all. Again, the proven existence of a ward against detection is a point in my favour, I think.

 

Their's always a need to store music! The biggest problem is that I just don't see the Forsaken caring enough to try. Ignoring DF (as they seem to go undetected anyway) The majority of shadowspawn will be used in 'straight-forward' battles, no need to hide them. Some will be used for 'assassination attempts' - like the draghkar and Moiraine, these missions will most likely be ordered by a Channeler - simple enough to ward the shadowspawn you're using. Gholam really don't need the help!

 

I may be wrong and Rands ability is not new, and I'll be a lot happier if this is what it is instead of a angreal for Rand, but I'm not yet convinced it's the more likely option.

Most of the time, there's a reason certain sayings exist. If you see what became of Torkumen and how people who do very stupid things are often called 'Light-blinded fools', the similarities are funny. *shrugs*

 

I don't think it matters if Rand's ability is new, although I doubt that it is;

On top of Dragonmount, Rand finally became the unblinded Dragon (the blind man seeing again).

 

I need to check the text, but I'm sure that DF worked amongst the armies of the Light. This becomes harder if people have DF detectors wired in their head - but no proof some people didn't, just my opinion.

 

The only thing I struggle, and despite your arguments, still struggle to overcome - is I don't see channelers bothering to make it, I don't think their's a big enough gain in it for them. This doesn't hold in reverse and it's possible that somebody converted one to act this way *shrugs*

 

Because Rand's a woolheaded idiot? :)

LOL.

Rand came up with how to remove the Taint from Saidin...and it worked too!

Someone we know to be a genius (Demandred; RJ told us his IQ once), thought it a brilliant plan. (regardless of how dangerous it was; I doubt any plan doing this would be safe)

 

:)

 

 

EDIT to add - just been looking on Tor - someone pointed out that Taim has been in Maradon, and Bashere independent of the Maradon battle - so could be Taim with an angreal? Not sure how much I believe this tho.

Edited by BFG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ter'angreal to hide from the Light.. suddenly I am reminded of the Bloodrings. (Thoug it's not quite the same, I know.)

 

Then there are the grey men, that no-one notices until it's too late.

 

The ability to cloak yourself from your opponent is valuable to any fighting force, on any side.

 

Perhaps some such 'cloaking devices' were developed for people to use to move around undetected, and they had the unintended consequence of protecting against Rand's DF-vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^could well be.

 

I definately prefer this to the angreal - the world at large knows that Rand has angreal/sa'angreal at his disposal, what would be so important about one we haven't heard of yet (fat man is missing, Callandor to big to be concealed, CK ter'angreal destroyed) that makes it so important to be secret.

 

I'm not convinced anyone's guessed right yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

 

Right.

 

And we know Rand didnt have an angreal KOD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Little Fat Man seems obvious ... but I feel Rand is more tied to Callandor during the LB than any other item.

 

I think it is actually some trick with the Power that he remembered from LTT during that fight that he was able to use and was glad that no other male channeler had been able to see and learn. Imagine if LTT had tricks up his sleeve that he had been able to keep Ishy or Dem from learning?

 

I mean ... why all the emphasis on Callandor if it's not even his primary weapon? Seems anti-climatic if that is the case. It'd be like Luke not using his Lightsaber when fighting Darth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

 

My understanding is that BS has stated that the 'kill-level' at the Manor and Maradon is similar, thus their's no evidence for a power-up between the 2, and that this is the power-up that was asked about, as the text sounds like Rand's gotten a lot stronger post VoG. If he was using an angreal at Maradon, therefore his power-level hadn't changed, but he was still able to kill more trollocs/myrdall then I would have thought his response to a question about a power-up between the Manor and Maradon would have been rafo instead of explaining that the kill-ratios are similar. I may well have mis-read/mis-understood the interview, I tend to only catch the re-posted quotes on here rather than at source.

 

If it turns out that he was using a power-up than BS's answer seems beyond that of an AS to me (although that is allowed, and would actually work with the text as written quite well).

 

 

I'd also think that the world at large knows he has a sa'angreal, so I'm not sure him using a (presumably) lesser one would really be that important a secret to keep (imo). To me, it makes more sense if it's not talking about Rand, but I'm not sure who to propose as an alternative *shrugs*

 

EDIT - replaced Temple with Manor (sorry for mistake and confusion)

Edited by BFG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

 

My understanding is that BS has stated that the 'kill-level' at the Temple and Maradon is similar, thus their's no evidence for a power-up between the 2, and that this is the power-up that was asked about, as the text sounds like Rand's gotten a lot stronger post VoG.

 

? The "battle of the temple" and Maradon are the same fight(which was post VoG). Brandon said that Rand had powered up as of KoD and Alagarins Manor. That's why if this is an angreal as it seems to possibly be, it deals a blow to the "Super Power" camp since we now would know where the power came from. It's also one if the reasons why people see it as a band aid.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

Let's suppose it is a Rand PoV and that he's referring to whatever item that involves his 'power-up' (what an icky word)

Why would it be so important that "nobody knew he had <insert whatever item/ angreal Rand used as a 'power-up'>", if he used it for all to see at Maradon?

If it's so important that 'nobody knows Rand has that item', why show what it does so openly?

The fact Rand showed what he's capable of, makes it a very silly thing for him to think it's still important 'noone knew he had it'.

 

Kinda like me posting this post, but that it's imporant noone out here knows I have a laptop with a connection to the internet:

"It -Mik's laptop- had been useful at Dragonmount. Nobody knew Mik had a laptop. That was important".

The exact tool used becomes nearly irrelevant, the moment you publicly display it's usage/ potential.

The same goes for Rand when he publicly displayed his Power for all to witness, regardless how or what enabled him to channel the way he did.

 

 

Given the wording, we're looking for an item that had it's use at Maradon -passive or actively used-, but that nobody except the user realises was used there in the first pace.

Meaning that the one carrying it, managed to keep the effect of "it" secret up untill Maradon and that it had served it's use in Maradon.

"It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important."

 

My money is on Bashere.

*goes all in*

Edited by Mik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

 

My understanding is that BS has stated that the 'kill-level' at the Temple and Maradon is similar, thus their's no evidence for a power-up between the 2, and that this is the power-up that was asked about, as the text sounds like Rand's gotten a lot stronger post VoG.

 

? The "battle of the temple" and Maradon are the same fight(which was post VoG). Brandon said that Rand had powered up as of KoD and Alagarins Manor. That's why if this is an angreal as it seems to possibly be, it deals a blow to the "Super Power" camp since we now would know where the power came from. It's also one if the reasons why people see it as a band aid.

 

Oh (apologies), I always thought the battle of the Temple was the battle at the Manor - would explain a lot of what confuses me about these discussions. I get why if Rand had an angreal here it could be considered a band-aid...

 

But it doesn't change my point - if the kill ratios at the manor and Maradon are similar than Rand has no need for an angreal at Maradon despite the way the text was written (implying he's stronger at Maradon). If he had an angreal at Maradon and thus the kill ratio was higher, then why try to explain that the kill-ratio was the same? Why not just say rafo?

 

I don't think it's Rand with a angreal - it contradicts everything BS has said on the subject - if he had had an angreal, BS would have just said rafo to the questions of his power-up.

 

How so? In fact Brandon said Rand had powered up as of KoD when addressing this topic.

Let's suppose it is a Rand PoV and that he's referring to whatever item that involves his 'power-up' (what an icky word)

Why would it be so important that "nobody knew he had <insert whatever item/ angreal Rand used as a 'power-up'>", if he used it for all to see at Maradon?

If it's so important that 'nobody knows Rand has that item', why show what it does so openly?

The fact Rand showed what he's capable of, makes it a very silly thing for him to think it's still important 'noone knew he'.

 

Kinda like me posting this post, but that it's imporant noone out here knows I have a laptop with a connection to the internet:

"It -Mik's laptop- had been useful at Dragonmount. Nobody knew Mik had a laptop. That was important".

The exact tool used becomes nearly irrelevant, the moment you publicly display it's usage/ potential.

The same goes for Rand when he publicly displayed his Power for all to witness, regardless how or what enabled him to channel the way he did.

 

 

Given the wording, we're looking for an item that had it's use at Maradon -passive or actively used-, but that nobody except the user realises was used there in the first pace.

Meaning that the one carrying it, managed to keep the effect of "it" secret up untill Maradon and that it had served it's use in Maradon.

"It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important."

 

My money is on Bashere.

*goes all in*

 

Although I'm still not convinced about Bashere, I agree with the rest of this

Edited by BFG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what was today's teaser?

Somehow I cannot signup for the blasted email so would someone start a thread and stick it so people like me can go their and look it up? I for one will be very grateful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have a link to the Brandon comments on the Manor/Maradon? Is it possible he was conflating ALL the channeling at the Manor with Rand alone at Maradon to be tricky?

 

I don't think its possible Rand had an angreal at the Manor, when Logain was feeling him holding the power he didn't mention some lunatic level of power that only an angreal could explain, he said something about as much as he could hold, which would be reasonably close (if less) to what Logain could hold.

 

Finally, I think Bashere is an interesting choice- but if its his dagger that is a T'A its an odd move to throw it at Rand (let it leave his person if its supposed to be disguising him).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what was today's teaser?

Somehow I cannot signup for the blasted email so would someone start a thread and stick it so people like me can go their and look it up? I for one will be very grateful.

 

Here, it will be updated when the content is released. It's locked so it's just the post where everyone can view the released material without trawling through pages of discussion. Discussion on the topic is here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone get an email today yet? I signed up Again yesterday, not sure if it worked. I have to say its a good idea if they get on top of the logistics, gives everyone plenty to chew on until d day.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, I think Bashere is an interesting choice- but if its his dagger that is a T'A its an odd move to throw it at Rand (let it leave his person if its supposed to be disguising him).

I fully agree with your reasoning and I totally agree it doesn't need to be that dagger persé...... and yet.... somehow, it just feels right to me;

 

Plucking the horn-hilted dagger from the air with one hand, Rand let go of the Source..

 

Turning the dagger in his hands, he walked slowly to Bashere. “Had I been an eyeblink slower,” he said softly,

“I’d be dead. I could kill you where you sit and no law in Andor or anywhere else would say me wrong.”

He was ready to do it, he realized. Cold rage had replaced saidin. A few weeks’ acquaintance did not cover this.

 

The Saldaean’s tilted eyes were as calm as if he lolled in his own home. “My wife would not like that. Nor you, for that matter.

Deira would probably take command and set out hunting Taim again. She doesn’t approve of my agreement to follow you.”

 

Rand shook his head slightly, the edge of his anger dulled a little by the man’s composure. And his words.

 

I think it fits so well with the description of the Dull Dagger ter'angreal Avi finds in Ebou Dar, and the subtle wording of how the edge of Rand's anger at Bashere was dulled,...;

 

Aviendha found a dagger with gold wire wrapped around a hilt of rough deerhorn; the blade was dull, and by all evidence, always had been.

She kept turning that over and over in her fingers—her hands actually began to tremble—until Elayne took it away from her and put it with the

others on the cistern’s lid. Even then Aviendha stood for a time, looking at it and licking her lips as though they had gone dry

 

Maybe it's the dagger...

Maybe it's just the wording in reference to the real Dull Dagger that's the hint in and by itself...

Any maybe it's nothing...

 

*shrugs*

Meh! RAFO, I guess!

Edited by Mik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have a link to the Brandon comments on the Manor/Maradon? Is it possible he was conflating ALL the channeling at the Manor with Rand alone at Maradon to be tricky?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Umm...Both, though, one thing you have to keep in mind, is...Rand, as a result of power level...Robert Jordan was specifically not using him very often because his power had grown so powerful even by the end of Knife of Dreams. I mean, you look at Knife of Dreamsif you go reread the fight in Knife of Dreams he is laying waste to nearly as many Trollocs as he has when he does the battle at the temple—which is not actually called that in the books—that's the one with the Trollocs and things [referencing Rand's big single-handed fight in Towers of Midnight].

 

I don't think its possible Rand had an angreal at the Manor, when Logain was feeling him holding the power he didn't mention some lunatic level of power that only an angreal could explain, he said something about as much as he could hold, which would be reasonably close (if less) to what Logain could hold.

 

Don't think anyone is saying that. People do think this quote could refer to him having one at Maradon however. As Mik said RAFO...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...