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The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases


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Still, Elayne does sound emotional about the thing, which I don't think she'd be about Mat. Not like this.

But this is Mat going over to the Seanchan. I do think Elayne would take that very badly. And he's doing this when her need for him is very great. Her capital lies in flames, and he's going to abandon that and go over to Andor's second greatest enemy. I don't think she'd be unemotional about that.

 

As for Bryne, Elayne already knows he follows Egwene and the Hall. He'll do what they tell him to. How can she feel betrayed by that suddenly?

Edited by fionwe1987
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I disagree with Bryne being the one in question. Without recalling an exact quote I can recall how Elayne seemed to barely consider Bryne anything but long gone when addressing Gawyn in the palace gardens. She seems to consider him a thing of the past and I think how he has been represented since he joined the rebels in Salidar has been as a wholly broken from Andor. Only passing mention has been made of his links to Andor and his apparent duty. Possibly it could be a sad reference to his being parted from Andor, but to me the quote is more impassioned and seems to bear some frustration. I do not think that Elayne would channel frustration towards Bryne for a duty which has seemed to be in the past.

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Bryne doesn't make much sense to me. He'd fight where Egwene and the Hall order him to, he's given his word on this - Elayne knows it and understands it, she never tried to call on him when she needed a general during the Succession. He'd have no personal problems fighting alongside Elayne, despite what happened happened between him and Morgase he has no problems with her daughter. Besides, Morgase would probably tell him at Merrilor she was under the Compulsion of Rahvin and this should clear up things between them. Even if she doesn't, it would be the height of pettiness to refuse to defend your homeland just because the former queen dumped you and not in character for Bryne at all.

 

I still think it's about Rand. Couples can break up even when they are sure they love each other, happens all the time. And we all know it'd be just temporary anyway.

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fionwe, Bryne will do as he's told, but the AS don't get to dictate the military necessities. He can easily choose to personally oversee the fronts that don't involve Andor. Not to mention, Bryne's bygone separation from Andor is bound become more sensitive when he learns of Morgase's survival. He now has a real reason to want a 'clean break', regardless of how he feels toward Siuan.

 

As to Mat, Elayne can easily be frustrated, disappointed or angered by his decisions. Concern is also very likely. But not the level of rejection that seems to be reflected in this paragraph. A dad-surrogate, now, that's something to consider.

 

Of course, how I expect Elayne to view the world and how she actually does may not be the same thing.

Edited by yoniy0
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fionwe, Bryne will do as he's told, but the AS don't get to dictate the military necessities. He can easily choose to personally oversee the fronts that don't involve Andor. Not to mention, Bryne's bygone separation from Andor is bound become more sensitive when he learns of Morgase's survival. He now has a real reason to want a 'clean break', regardless of how he feels toward Siuan. As to Mat, Elayne can easily be frustrated, disappointed or angered by his decisions. Concern is also very likely. But not the level of rejection that seems to be reflected in this paragraph. A dad-surrogate, now, that's something to consider. Of course, how I expect Elayne to view the world and how she actually does may not be the same thing.

I would agree that Elayne would react this way to Bryne abandoning Andor... but not months after he has done it. And I find it inconcievable that Bryne is petty enough not to want to fight for Andor because he has a snit with its former Queen, especially if the Aes Sedai ask him to do so. Even if they don't, I expect Bryne to be completely ready to fight for Andor. And he has shown that while he no longer feels close to Elayne, he still thinks her ascending the throne was good for Andor, and that the good of Andor does matter to him.

 

As for Mat, I think you underestimate the feeling in his relationship with Elayne. Sure, when its all dandy, neither of them has gone on about it. But I think Elayne would feel very betrayed if Mat leaves.

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This "memory" is one of the best! It was worded well; and can have a number of explanations.

 

But this is Mat going over to the Seanchan. I do think Elayne would take that very badly. And he's doing this when her need for him is very great. Her capital lies in flames, and he's going to abandon that and go over to Andor's second greatest enemy. I don't think she'd be unemotional about that.

 

As for Bryne, Elayne already knows he follows Egwene and the Hall. He'll do what they tell him to. How can she feel betrayed by that suddenly?

 

It is very predictable that Bryne will do as Egwene or the Hall command. He won't disobey an order. And we know that Bryne's break with Elayne took place in Salidar when he ignored her. No need for him to make another clean break.

 

As to the Band abandoning Elayne, I think the Band already earned their pay and due with what Talmanes did for Caemlyn. A considerable percentage of Caemlyn residents owe their lives to the Band. And that is besides what they earned for helping her secure Cairhien. My perception is that the Band, if it decides not to fight in Andor, would be doing something for TG under Rand's orders (which is part of Mat's agreement with Elayne). It wouldn't be abandonment.

 

As to who wants the "break" to be clean. Gawyn is a strong candidate. All Andorans will rush to deal with the situation; but Gawyn will stay at Egwene's side. The Queen's brother not participating in the defense of his homeland is definitely a "break." Rand is another choice. He sent Elayne a letter effectively telling her to go to Caemlyn to take care of the situation. She interpreted it as manipulation. But what if Rand was honest with her? Rand knows that he cannot get drawn into the Caemlyn trap; and Elayne might think he wants a "clean break" before going to Shayol Ghul.

Edited by Theodril
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Byrne fits, except for his character. He has a strong sense of duty and he is a Great Captain.
If it's necessary to fight in Andor, he'll fight in Andor and his personal feelings be damned.
Of course Elayne may be misinterpreting motives if it is Byrne (and this is not Elayne bashing - WoT PoVs often show characters making such errors).

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Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting Bryne would be negligent. The front line against the Shadow will encompass the entire world; there's plenty of place for Bryne to achieve 'a break' from Elayne and her mother without disobeying his orders or endangering the Light's cause (any more than it already is).

 

In the end, this comes down to different assessment of Elayne's feelings. In that, I don't think we can make effective arguments. While I don't doubt that Elayne and Mat will go out of their way and put their own lives on the line to help each other, I just don't see her feeling rejected by his decision to go to Tuon.

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People are saying that Bryne will do as Egwene commands and that he would not abandon Andor for a disagreement with Morgase. For the former, the memory does not say Bryne disagrees to fighting in Andor, it just says Bryne doesn't want to do it. I agree he'll do as commanded but he won't like it. For the latter, in Bryne's eyes he gave his life to Andor and Morgase and Morgase betrayed both him and Andor for Gaebril. No one deigned to inform him of Rahvin as we see from his talks with Gawyn and that may not have changed. That's pretty serious stuff, and if I were Bryne I wouldn't want to fight for Elayne either.

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He doesn't want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn't want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean.

 

From the quote Elayne sounds a bit bitter to me, not dissapointed or angry. She is just realising the thing, feeling sorry, but she do understand the other person's reasoning. So who that can be? And why? It sounds the break-up isn't with Elayne herself, but more with Elayne the Queen and Andor.

 

Rand - maybe. But you see... he is breaking up with her... I cannot see her reacting so calm if Rand tried to brake up with her. She would be furious and angry, and she wouldn't show understanding. So it's maybe Rand abandoning Andor to it's fate, as he abandoned Two Rivers, or it cannot be Rand in my oppinion.

 

Mat - could be him. Mat knows he should be with either Rand or Tuon in the days to come. He also knows his military knowedge, and his place in Seanchan empire and the fact that he blew the Horne of Valere, are all important for the LB, he cannot help Elayne mostly because he should have a lot to do in LB. Considering Mat had given her word to help her, he would feel obliged to at least break up clean with her and Andor when it comes to their military relationships. But this will also mean he abandons the dragons... so Mat isn't very sure answer either.

 

Perrin - I don't think he is propable.

 

Galad - that's my favourite. He is in his own path now. He is trying to be the best possible leader for White Cloaks, as he always try to do the best thing. He cannot participate in Andoran politics anymore, not as Andoran nobleman at least. He is something more now, he needs to accept that and he needs to break up clean with Andor, so he can be free to be White Cloaks leader without holdbacks. My vote goes to Galad. Elayne would understand his decision. And even more - he now owns alegiance to Perrin till Last Battle is over, so even if Elayne calls him he would answer her that he cannot. And Elayne would think the exact same thoughts as the quote above.

 

Gawyn - plausable. He may decide he doesn't want to keep even the slightest link to Andor politics now, after he dealed with Seanchan killers. He saw that Egwene needs protections all the time, even if she cannot see that. And for Gawyn to be absolutely free to follow his duty to her, he needs to break up clean with his land, even if he isn't very obliged to it now, since Elayne told him he is free to go to Egwene. But Gawyn should feel he needs to tell Elayne the truth, that Egwene is more important to him than Andor and he wants to concentrate only on her safety.

 

Bryne - I don't think so. Elayne know perfectly that she cannot depend on Bryne for nothing any longer. Not because they are in bad relationship because of her mother, or because he doesn't want to support Andor, but simply because he can`t. Elayne knows Gareth Bryne, she had grown up with him, she knows when he gives a vow, it's a vow and he intends to keep it even with his life. She won't expect him to just jump in Andor no matter Egwene or Aes Sedai orders, only because she wants him too. And if Egwene or the Tower wants him to go in Andor to defend it, Gareth Bryine in my opinion will do so gladly, simply because it's his homeland. So I think Bryne is the most unlikely person after Perrin.

 

Gaybon - he is a queen man. He goes where Elayne wants him to go. No other options.

 

Thom - I think he would be with Moraine now, he is not a soljier nor general, Elayne won't expect him to go fight for Andor, so in my opinion he cannot be considered candidate for that.

 

 

 

 

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Just a reminder...Rand is going to die, so it could still apply to him even though we all know they're not going to "break up". At this point, they might have already said their tearful goodbyes.

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Rand stiffened. He'd known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.

 

Moridin explaining what it is to channel the True Power.

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Rand stiffened. He'd known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.

 

 

Moridin explaining what it is to channel the True Power.

 

Good idea. I do have a question though. Is the use of past perfect fully consistent with this explanation? As a nonnative English speaker I've never been comfortable with these things. I mean, Rand didn't really know what he was doing when he was channeling TP in tGS (LTT did, however). He only fully understood what happened after VoG.

 

Another possibility: Egwene explaining to Rand her understanding of his reasoning for arranging the Merrilor meeting.

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I like the idea of true Power, but wouldn't it be scary/terrifying/whatever to learn the details, rather than just 'disconcerting'?

 

Perhaps this is Moiraine explaining his motivation for some of his past actions back to him?

 

edit: or Avi

Edited by msbee
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umm...we don't *truly* understand the consequences either. Are there any whatsoever? Is Rand doomed for trying it once?  Does he not know what it was?

Well there maybe none, but then the champion of the light channeling via the DO's own power..cant turn out well, can it?

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umm...we don't *truly* understand the consequences either. Are there any whatsoever? Is Rand doomed for trying it once?  Does he not know what it was?

Well there maybe none, but then the champion of the light channeling via the DO's own power..cant turn out well, can it?

 

exactly. TP is the essence of the DO, i.e. the essence of pure evil and nothing good can possibly come of Rand using it.  In fact, there have been consequences already. Rand was almost turned after a single use of it. And BS said that there is more to come

 

 

Interview: Nov 14th, 2009   Brandon Sanderson
The black/dark aura around Rand is partially, but not entirely, an effect of True Power usage. There will be consequences from Rand's True Power use.
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This is obviously Rand and Avi.

This one makes sense.  His attempt to save more than a remnant of a remnant ends up destroying all, from her vision.  Pretty disconcerting.

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I have a problem with "on some level" part. Rand has full memories of his life as LTT post-VoG. If it is TP, why the need for "on some level"? He should be concious of his TP use.

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This is obviously Rand and Avi.

This one makes sense.  His attempt to save more than a remnant of a remnant ends up destroying all, from her vision.  Pretty disconcerting.

The quote says that what he found disconcerting was the fact that his thought process was explained to him, not some future dire consequences of it. It is possible however, that, he would react this way to Avi simply stating his reasons for excluding the Aiel from the Peace of the Dragon. I doubt she will tell him of her Rhuidean visions anyway, certainly not in front of everybody at Merrilor.

Edited by herid
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This is obviously Rand and Avi.

This one makes sense.  His attempt to save more than a remnant of a remnant ends up destroying all, from her vision.  Pretty disconcerting.

Not what I meant but since there are kids around, I'll go with it lol.  

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