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The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

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This is quite enough. Calling people 'haters' or classifying their posts as 'hate' without obvious and blatant basis to go on constitutes a personal attack in my book. Not to mention, these two topics are restricted to their respective threads. Take it there, or don't engage in these discussions to begin with. But either way, don't do so anywhere else.

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"Why are you helping me?" Perrin demanded.

"I'm fond of you, Perrin."

I don't think this is Berelain, at this point. Tylee, maybe? Or an Aes Sedai, like Alanna?

Edited by Cem Önal

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Could still be Berelain if Faile is taken again although that would be a bit repetitive. Tylee is a better option. She mentioned in tGS that she is fond of Perrin.
 

 

She would not like to face Perrin. No, she would not. And not just because she was fond of him.
--tGS, Prologue
Edited by herid

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Could still be Berelain if Faile is taken again although that would be a bit repetitive. Tylee is a better option. She mentioned in tGS that she is fond of Perrin.

 

 

She would not like to face Perrin. No, she would not. And not just because she was fond of him.

--tGS, Prologue

Good call.

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"Why are you helping me?" Perrin demanded.

"I'm fond of you, Perrin."

I don't think this is Berelain, at this point. Tylee, maybe? Or an Aes Sedai, like Alanna?

My first thought was Galad, re Perrin's remark about being fond of the horse!

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Has anyone considered that Perrin's fond helper is Lanfear?

Seeing as how RJ clearly ruled out her doing anything good for Mat or Rand's sake I don't think this is likely...

Edited by Suttree

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Could be Tylee but wouldn't she call him by his full name?

 

 When they parted they decided to call each other by their first names. That was rather a big deal for both of them.

"Why are you helping me?" Perrin demanded.

"I'm fond of you, Perrin."

I don't think this is Berelain, at this point. Tylee, maybe? Or an Aes Sedai, like Alanna?

My first thought was Galad, re Perrin's remark about being fond of the horse!

Out of the question. A horse is one thing. One man being fond of another man is something else. I can't think of a single instance of  this phrase being used between two males in the series. Not to mention that Galad swore to obey Perrin.

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Could be Tylee but wouldn't she call him by his full name?

 

 When they parted they decided to call each other by their first names. That was rather a big deal for both of them.

Good call. Tylee then.

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Good argument about Tylee.  They would be using first names, so...

 

maybe now the question is what is she helping him with?!?!  It's got to be something that Seanchan would oppose, like freeing channellers, stopping the White Tower attack, or ?

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Has anyone considered that Perrin's fond helper is Lanfear?

Seeing as how RJ clearly ruled out her doing anything good for Mat or Rand's sake I don't think this is likely...

 

?? When did RJ rule out Lanfear helping Mat or Rand?  Or did you mean to type "good for Mat for Rand's sake"?

 

In any case, I initially thought of Tylee like some other people, but Tylee wouldn't do anything for Perrin out of fondness; just for the Empire.  I'm not saying she wouldn't or doesn't end up helping Perrin, but I don't see her attributing her help to personal feelings of affection.  I don't think it's Berelain or any of the Aes Sedai under his command because they're already helping him, so he wouldn't be surprised by future help.

 

So, it needs to be somebody from whom Perrin does not expect help yet who knows Perrin and is in a position to help Perrin in some manner.  Honestly, I'd be guessing Verin if she wasn't dead, but maybe some other Aes Sedai, since he doesn't know about the Kin and Aiel Wise Ones would use his full name.    

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Has anyone considered that Perrin's fond helper is Lanfear?

Seeing as how RJ clearly ruled out her doing anything good for Mat or Rand's sake I don't think this is likely...
 

?? When did RJ rule out Lanfear helping Mat or Rand?  Or did you mean to type "good for Mat for Rand's sake"? 

Interview: Feb 1st, 1994

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

Now about how evil the Forsaken are. I'm not really sure you define evil. Part of what I am writing about is just how ordinary evil is. In many ways, without the One Power, the Forsaken would be no more than Darkfriends, though perhaps a bit more than ordinary. True, their callousness toward the pain, suffering, even death of ordinary people, and the way they submerge everything and everyone in their own quest for power—and true immortality—their willingness to deliver the world to the Dark One in that quest, are shared by many who do not have their powers. The point is that they are human; they haven't gotten rid of human emotions, or human weaknesses except for a few physical ones. They are not gods, nor even demi-gods, though they seek to be and think they already are. But believe me, there is nothing they will not do to achieve their goals, no price too high to pay—especially if it is paid by someone else, or millions of someone elses. And Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love—not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

I found the Mat quote in which Lanfear was "checking his health" and it doesn't say quite what I remembered although it is clear she wasn't doing it for his good. Regardless the point holds. If it is laughable that she would do good for Rand's sake she certainly wouldn't do so for Perrin.

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Has anyone considered that Perrin's fond helper is Lanfear?

Seeing as how RJ clearly ruled out her doing anything good for Mat or Rand's sake I don't think this is likely...
 

?? When did RJ rule out Lanfear helping Mat or Rand?  Or did you mean to type "good for Mat for Rand's sake"? 

Interview: Feb 1st, 1994

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

Now about how evil the Forsaken are. I'm not really sure you define evil. Part of what I am writing about is just how ordinary evil is. In many ways, without the One Power, the Forsaken would be no more than Darkfriends, though perhaps a bit more than ordinary. True, their callousness toward the pain, suffering, even death of ordinary people, and the way they submerge everything and everyone in their own quest for power—and true immortality—their willingness to deliver the world to the Dark One in that quest, are shared by many who do not have their powers. The point is that they are human; they haven't gotten rid of human emotions, or human weaknesses except for a few physical ones. They are not gods, nor even demi-gods, though they seek to be and think they already are. But believe me, there is nothing they will not do to achieve their goals, no price too high to pay—especially if it is paid by someone else, or millions of someone elses. And Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love—not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

I found the Mat quote in which Lanfear was "checking his health" and it doesn't say quite what I remembered although it is clear she wasn't doing it for his good. Regardless the point holds. If it is laughable that she would do good for Rand's sake she certainly wouldn't do so for Perrin.

Unless she's in disguise. And isn't actually helping him.

 

Not that I think it's her. I still think it's Tylee.

Edited by Master Ablar

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Has anyone considered that Perrin's fond helper is Lanfear?

Seeing as how RJ clearly ruled out her doing anything good for Mat or Rand's sake I don't think this is likely...
 

?? When did RJ rule out Lanfear helping Mat or Rand?  Or did you mean to type "good for Mat for Rand's sake"? 

Interview: Feb 1st, 1994

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

Now about how evil the Forsaken are. I'm not really sure you define evil. Part of what I am writing about is just how ordinary evil is. In many ways, without the One Power, the Forsaken would be no more than Darkfriends, though perhaps a bit more than ordinary. True, their callousness toward the pain, suffering, even death of ordinary people, and the way they submerge everything and everyone in their own quest for power—and true immortality—their willingness to deliver the world to the Dark One in that quest, are shared by many who do not have their powers. The point is that they are human; they haven't gotten rid of human emotions, or human weaknesses except for a few physical ones. They are not gods, nor even demi-gods, though they seek to be and think they already are. But believe me, there is nothing they will not do to achieve their goals, no price too high to pay—especially if it is paid by someone else, or millions of someone elses. And Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love—not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

I found the Mat quote in which Lanfear was "checking his health" and it doesn't say quite what I remembered although it is clear she wasn't doing it for his good. Regardless the point holds. If it is laughable that she would do good for Rand's sake she certainly wouldn't do so for Perrin.

 

That's all true with respect to Lanfear, but Cyndane is a desperate individual without the luxury of ego-tripping.  I agree that Cyndane would never help Perrin out of fondness, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't say she was helping him out of fondness.  I mean, what else would she say, that she's helping him out of desperation because she's mindtrapped and if Moridin / Ishy knew about it he would commandeer her body making her an automaton and killing everyone in sight?

 

In any case, I don't think it's Cyndane either.  Nothing really fits, even Tylee in my opinion.  I'm just going with undecided and will see in 3 weeks when I read the book.

Edited by Sentinel78

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why would Perrin believe a statement coming from Cyndane that she is fond of him? That would only be credible from someone Perrin knows. It would be a ridiculous explanation coming from a stranger. As for Tylee doing something out of fondness for Perrin rather than out of loyalty to the empire she explicitly showed rather rebellious thoughts on the matter and went so far as to contradict Tuon the first time they met which Tuon (rightly) found amazing. And let's not forget that Perrin is a ta'veren.

 

Tylee fits well IMO but I'm not claiming it's her for sure. It still could be somebody like Alanna or Berelain but my money is on Tylee.

Edited by herid

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Tylee fits in that she would say she was fond of Perrin. But why in the world would Perrin demand to know why she was helping him? They don't see each other as antagonists. Berelain doesn't make sense at this stage for a similar reason.

 

Someone mentioned Alanna, and that's a definite possibility. But whoever it is, Perrin has to have a somewhat antagonistic relationship with her to demand to know why she's helping him.

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Okay, she changes her opinion constantly, I'll give you that much but I'll not go so far as to say she admitted Rand being right. One minute, she is lecturing Elayne why it should not be done, the next she is saying that she is not saying it shouldn't be done, and then the next she is saying again she is not convinced it should be done.

I think we all know that this ludicrous shifting of positions is hardly indicative of Egwene's character. We all know where the fault for this falls...

 

Oh, look. Some Brandon hate too.

 

Tell me, would you prefer this, or no ending?

 

I'm not going to discuss specifics of this here. But please go over to the Thisguy thread and explain why you think these are the only two options available.

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How am I changing position? It's a change from what we've seen of Egwene so far, therefore I was not expecting it. That's been my opinion from the start.

But it is not a change. Admiring his strength, trusting him with the fate of the world... these are things that go in hand with being proud of his achievements. 

 

The other thing is very poor writing on Brandon's part for, I suspect, plot convenience. It was never about Egwene's character, if anything it's out of her character.

Agreed.

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why would Perrin believe a statement coming from Cyndane that she is fond of him? That would only be credible from someone Perrin knows. It would be a ridiculous explanation coming from a stranger. As for Tylee doing something out of fondness for Perrin rather than out of loyalty to the empire she explicitly showed rather rebellious thoughts on the matter and went so far as to contradict Tuon the first time they met which Tuon (rightly) found amazing. And let's not forget that Perrin is a ta'veren.

 

Tylee fits well IMO but I'm not claiming it's her for sure. It still could be somebody like Alanna or Berelain but my money is on Tylee.

I agree with you in general that Tylee is likely. But especially if the "help" is in TAR, Cyndane could appear to Perrin in any form she chose.

This BTW was a reason why I suspected the ToM scene wasn't set in TAR precisely since Cyndi did not take on Lanfear/ Selene appearance.

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Tylee fits in that she would say she was fond of Perrin. But why in the world would Perrin demand to know why she was helping him? They don't see each other as antagonists.

of course they do. Tylee is a Seanchan. If the scene in question happens before the reconciliation with the Seanchan Perrin would have every reason to be surprised at her help.

I agree with you in general that Tylee is likely. But especially if the "help" is in TAR, Cyndane could appear to Perrin in any form she chose.

 

 

and which form would that be? why is it reasonable to assume that instead of assuming that Perrin is simply speaking to the person Cyndane is supposed to be impersonating?

Edited by herid

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How am I changing position? It's a change from what we've seen of Egwene so far, therefore I was not expecting it. That's been my opinion from the start.

But it is not a change. Admiring his strength, trusting him with the fate of the world... these are things that go in hand with being proud of his achievements. 

 

The other thing is very poor writing on Brandon's part for, I suspect, plot convenience. It was never about Egwene's character, if anything it's out of her character.

Agreed.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? The discussion got rather ugly with this hater business. And I feel we both made our claims adequately but we couldn't convince each other. So let's get on with today's memory.

 

 

My money is on Alanna. Perrin has no reason to distrust Tylee, so I don't think he'd go around demanding why she is helping him. She's solid which Perrin admires. If it was something that'd hurt the Seanchan, well, Tylee wouldn't do that. She is loyal to the Empire and Empress. Commiting treason, in the Seanchan eyes, is not the same thing as voicing her opinion which would help the Seanchan. If it was to help Aes Sedai, she wouldn't do that either. She has not had the experiences Egeanin had with Nynaeve and Elayne so she has no reason to help one.

 

On the other hand, Perrin doesn't trust Alanna. There is always the wariness around Aes Sedai. She also could be fond of him too, after all she considers to bond him as a Warder, though I think it's a slip around the Three Oaths not her actual reason to help Perrin.

Edited by Cem Önal

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Tylee fits in that she would say she was fond of Perrin. But why in the world would Perrin demand to know why she was helping him? They don't see each other as antagonists.

of course they do. Tylee is a Seanchan. If the scene in question happens before the reconciliation with the Seanchan Perrin would have every reason to be surprised at her help.

But he wouldn't "demand" to know anything. He'd probably understand why she's helping him. Or he would ask her in a gentler way. "Demand", to me, implies suspicion and surprise both. Perrin may be surprised Tylee is helping him. But not suspicious, I think. While she says she grew fond of him, he also grew to respect her. While they're both aware they may have to face each other in the future, I don't think either will feel antagonistic with each other.

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Well, "demand" doesn't have to mean that. Not both these things. Any one of them, or anything similar, would work as well.

 

And Tylee might help Perrin in something that isn't completely counterproductive to the Empire, but isn't productive either. She might portion off some of her forces to do so, leaving her position slightly weakened. Or she might argue his case in front of a superior. There are many possible reasons why Perrin wouldn't have expected her to help him.

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