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The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases


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Memory 18

 

 

Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

This sounds ominous. What's happened to Selucia? Is this Hasselump? Strike that. Moridin sent her to command some army for Demandred. No other guesses at the moment.

 

 

 

No, that's Moghedien. It could be Heffalump I guess, though she says her plans with the "childlike empress" would have to be abandoned. She might have changed her mind about that after her transmigration, since she no longer has to run. What I don't understand is why in the Light would Tuon replace Selucia?

 

sorry,  you are right. still, this would be too much of a repetition if another Forsaken takes over exactly the same position that Semi had.

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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

So many short sentences.  Like this one.  Here.  It is known. 

 

Candidates might include Setelle, Moghedien, The Forsaken formerly known as Graendal... I think that's it, since she wanted to replace Selucia.  Egeanin, Liandrin, Suffa... pretty far fetched. :rolleyes:  Any other women that might fit the bill?

 

One thing I noticed is usage of the word 'holy' is generally given in a negative light.  Used four times by Couladin falsely claiming his status as Car'a'carn, Kiruna asking why Alanna hadn't bent Rand to her will using the bond, and Masema as the prophet.  I don't think any of the three are Darkfriends, but certainly not doing or suggesting anything in the best interests of the Light.  Perhaps it suggests that this appointment is not a good thing for Team Light, whether it's a DF/Forsaken or someone just as bad.

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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

Tuon names Leilwin Shipless as her new Truthspeaker in conjunction with being convinced that leashing da'mane is wrong.  This is a Truth that Leilwin knows but almost no one else in Seanchan does (or admits to).  This is obviously an unpopular decision so Fortuona ignores whoever was arguing against it and probably suggesting that Leilwin be summarily executed.

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I don't think their's anything to suggest that democracy is going to enter Randland as a result of anything Rand does, if it does at all.

 

Quite the opposite. RJ was not a great fan of democracy, calling himself a 'monarchist'. He might have been being facetious, but there are practically zero hints in the books that he thinks democracy is a good idea outside villages and the like. I gather he is one of those people who is of the opinion that democracy creates needless bureaucracy. Of course, absolutism is only a good alternative if you happen to have a wise ruler.

 

I think there's plenty of hints that democracy is good, and a healthy dose of disdain for nobility and monarchies. Quite apart from villages, the White Tower is a democracy, of sorts, but one steeped in too many archaic laws and bureaucracy till Egwene came along. There's a lot of different places where the importance of checks and balances on power is either mentioned or strongly implied. The concept of a noble class is given a heavy amount of disdain, especially in Mat's PoV, but its there everywhere. 

 

I wouldn't take any of this to mean a sudden turn to democracy. But with the coming steam trains and cannon, I wouldn't be shockingly surprised either.

 

 

1. The White Tower is not a democracy. They have a ruler (Amyrlin) and a ruling body (Hall) but they don't vote on anything Tower-wide.

2. Checks and balances are not democracy. They are an element of a logically-structured democracy, but democracy is defined by popular vote.

3. Some characters have a disdain for nobles, but that doesn't equate to an endorsement of democracy by any stretch of the imagination.

4. What do steam trains and cannons have to do with democracy?

 

1) The Tower is very much a democracy. Not the Tower as government of Tar Valon. I'm talking about the Hall and Amyrlin being the government of the Aes Sedai.

2) Of course those features don't amount to democracy. But the presence of those is a good starting point towards democracy.

3) No it doesn't. All I'm saying is that RJ's support of monarchies was likely a facetious statement, given how so many of the main characters disdain the nobility.

4) A lot, as others have explained.

 

Mark D: The idea of democracy existed well before trains and gunpowder, but the spread of democracy owes much to these (and other) things.

 

 

Not to bog this thing down in technicalities, but that smells more like a republic, which in my opinion is a far, far better thing than a democracy. Back to what matters though, eh?

 

The whole "holy woman" bit is a bit bothersome to me. There is not much, if any, organized religion in the Wheel of Time. The most we ever see is a character offering up prayers to the Creator or Dark One. It seems oddly out of place and one would think the time for introducing new nuances in Seanchan culture had come and passed already.

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Ha what if she heard Elaida giving a Foretelling and liked the sound of it...

 

It's probably Padain Fain with a wig. He was already "Truthspeaker" for the Pedron Niall and Elaida, Tuon would be the ultimate trinity.

 

Let's have a look at the candidate pool.

 

  1. Leilwin. Leilwin may speak the truth, but in this book she already made herself da'vovale to the Amyrlin becoming Truthspeaker on top of that doesn't seem likely, besides calling her holy woman would be a tad ridiculous.
  2. Setalle. Setalle wouldn't accept such a position unless the institution of damane was abolished and she would be the one who would end up rolling on the floor laughing if she was called Holy woman who may not be touched
  3. Moiraine. Now that would be an interesting idea. If there is anyone who could overcome the obstacle of being an Aes Sedai in the service of an Empress who collars other channellers it would be her. Perhaps she could swear an oath which would satisfy Tuon since Tuon knows she can't lie. Besides it may just be that Moiraine as she is no longer has any real prospects and future among the Aes Sedai especially married to Thom. That way both Thom and Moiraine would be close to power which either of them craves and close to Mat. Sadly, the idea is just a bit too unlikely
  4. Rand after being ripped out of TAR as a female Dragon. Just putting it out there for the lulz. The Dragon being reborn as a woman would be hilarious.

No one really fits. The best one would be Moiraine but she's just so unlikely.

Edited by b3arz3rg3r
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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

 

So many short sentences.  Like this one.  Here.  It is known. 

 

Candidates might include Setelle, Moghedien, The Forsaken formerly known as Graendal... I think that's it, since she wanted to replace Selucia.  Egeanin, Liandrin, Suffa... pretty far fetched. :rolleyes:  Any other women that might fit the bill?

 

One thing I noticed is usage of the word 'holy' is generally given in a negative light.  Used four times by Couladin falsely claiming his status as Car'a'carn, Kiruna asking why Alanna hadn't bent Rand to her will using the bond, and Masema as the prophet.  I don't think any of the three are Darkfriends, but certainly not doing or suggesting anything in the best interests of the Light.  Perhaps it suggests that this appointment is not a good thing for Team Light, whether it's a DF/Forsaken or someone just as bad.

 

Assuming its not just the official announcement of Selucia (which I think most likely due to the fact many of these could be deliberately misleading) I'm tempted to say it may be an Aes Sedai (most likely Setalle post healing) as Tuon may be trying to bring the Seanchan round from their black and white views on channellers given her new knowledge of sul'dam and channeling along with her desire to integrate with the locals cultures more. This may also indicate why the formality and wording like 'she who may not be touched.' to stop her from being taken and becoming a damane.

 

The other long shot is Avi volunteers to try and avert he vision.

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By the way, not all Ajahs elect their Sitters; some are selected by the Ajah Head, who is generally elected. And while you might argue (at a stretch) that technology led to democracy in certain places, obviously it did not in others.

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Posting here because it's probably not worth making a new thread about it, but Irene Gallo's article on Tor has confirmed there's a chapter called 'The Last Battle'.  I'm assuming it's the big 79k word one.

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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

 

So many short sentences.  Like this one.  Here.  It is known. 

 

Candidates might include Setelle, Moghedien, The Forsaken formerly known as Graendal... I think that's it, since she wanted to replace Selucia.  Egeanin, Liandrin, Suffa... pretty far fetched. :rolleyes:  Any other women that might fit the bill?

 

One thing I noticed is usage of the word 'holy' is generally given in a negative light.  Used four times by Couladin falsely claiming his status as Car'a'carn, Kiruna asking why Alanna hadn't bent Rand to her will using the bond, and Masema as the prophet.  I don't think any of the three are Darkfriends, but certainly not doing or suggesting anything in the best interests of the Light.  Perhaps it suggests that this appointment is not a good thing for Team Light, whether it's a DF/Forsaken or someone just as bad.

Short sentences are something we have to live with at this point. sigh. At least there is no one word sentence here.

 

Since the prologue release, I have thought that "the army that now lacks proper monitoring" was caused by Mesaana's or Semirhage's deaths. I thought "Mesaana's" BA was more likely because the timing fit better. Graendal also fits because her modus operandi is being the power behind the power. Setalle is pretty unlikely IMO, I don't think we'll see her much in AMoL.

 

As for "holy", we can't really say it's not Brandon's addition, the language certainly changed from RJ. Which is to be expected I suppose, but it makes it hard to say whether it's important.

 

 

 

I am repeating myself, but, Tuon didn't want to replace Selucia as her Truthspeaker but her Voice because it was awkward having her go between the Voice and the Truthspeaker without notice. So something happened that led to her change of mind.

 

One thing I noticed is that no one seems to think Tuon ignoring someone is significant. I think it is. I would almost say that someone berated Tuon in front of everybody and Tuon was impressed with her so made her her Truthspeaker but given what we've seen of Seanchan it's infinitely more likely that she'd behead her on the spot. Still I think it has some importance though I can't say what.

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Someone in the tor spoiler comments came up with the idea of Berelein being assigned the role of Truthspeaker. The truthspeaker does not need to learn hand signals. What about Cadsuane? She could impress Tuon.

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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

 

So many short sentences.  Like this one.  Here.  It is known. 

 

Candidates might include Setelle, Moghedien, The Forsaken formerly known as Graendal... I think that's it, since she wanted to replace Selucia.  Egeanin, Liandrin, Suffa... pretty far fetched. :rolleyes:  Any other women that might fit the bill?

 

One thing I noticed is usage of the word 'holy' is generally given in a negative light.  Used four times by Couladin falsely claiming his status as Car'a'carn, Kiruna asking why Alanna hadn't bent Rand to her will using the bond, and Masema as the prophet.  I don't think any of the three are Darkfriends, but certainly not doing or suggesting anything in the best interests of the Light.  Perhaps it suggests that this appointment is not a good thing for Team Light, whether it's a DF/Forsaken or someone just as bad.

Short sentences are something we have to live with at this point. sigh. At least there is no one word sentence here.

 

Since the prologue release, I have thought that "the army that now lacks proper monitoring" was caused by Mesaana's or Semirhage's deaths. I thought "Mesaana's" BA was more likely because the timing fit better. Graendal also fits because her modus operandi is being the power behind the power. Setalle is pretty unlikely IMO, I don't think we'll see her much in AMoL.

 

As for "holy", we can't really say it's not Brandon's addition, the language certainly changed from RJ. Which is to be expected I suppose, but it makes it hard to say whether it's important.

 

 

 

I am repeating myself, but, Tuon didn't want to replace Selucia as her Truthspeaker but her Voice because it was awkward having her go between the Voice and the Truthspeaker without notice. So something happened that led to her change of mind.

 

One thing I noticed is that no one seems to think Tuon ignoring someone is significant. I think it is. I would almost say that someone berated Tuon in front of everybody and Tuon was impressed with her so made her her Truthspeaker but given what we've seen of Seanchan it's infinitely more likely that she'd behead her on the spot. Still I think it has some importance though I can't say what.

Selucia is probably dead. She was Tuon's bodyguard afterall and if what Mat heard in that bad fanfiction insert of a tavern had any accuracy there is likely to be a serious attempt on Tuon and Selucia is her second to last line of defense. Besides RJ was careful to never show her go all out so it should be quite something when we do see her Even if it is her last fight.

 

 

I give it one chance in two that the one she's ignoring is her new Truthspeaker. Whoever it is protests against the appointment, but Tuon ignores her.

 

Someone in the tor spoiler comments came up with the idea of Berelein being assigned the role of Truthspeaker. The truthspeaker does not need to learn hand signals. What about Cadsuane? She could impress Tuon.

 

Cadsuane may be able to impress Tuon, but I doubt it. Her blunt approach would I think just skid off Tuon since Tuon isn't someone you can overawe just because you can channel. The main reason however why I think Cadsuane doesn't fit the bill is that she is already occupied. She is focused on Rand and no one else. She can't split herself between Rand and Tuon. Until the DO is defeated or she dies she won't allow Rand out of her eyes for a second longer than necessary. And Cadsuane is one of those who is likely to die in the Last Battle.

Edited by b3arz3rg3r
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Someone in the tor spoiler comments came up with the idea of Berelein being assigned the role of Truthspeaker. The truthspeaker does not need to learn hand signals. What about Cadsuane? She could impress Tuon.

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Posting here because it's probably not worth making a new thread about it, but Irene Gallo's article on Tor has confirmed there's a chapter called 'The Last Battle'.  I'm assuming it's the big 79k word one.

 Thanks. You are most likely right. Not very inventive though if this is the case.

 

Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

 

So many short sentences.  Like this one.  Here.  It is known. 

 

Candidates might include Setelle, Moghedien, The Forsaken formerly known as Graendal... I think that's it, since she wanted to replace Selucia.  Egeanin, Liandrin, Suffa... pretty far fetched. :rolleyes:  Any other women that might fit the bill?

 

One thing I noticed is usage of the word 'holy' is generally given in a negative light.  Used four times by Couladin falsely claiming his status as Car'a'carn, Kiruna asking why Alanna hadn't bent Rand to her will using the bond, and Masema as the prophet.  I don't think any of the three are Darkfriends, but certainly not doing or suggesting anything in the best interests of the Light.  Perhaps it suggests that this appointment is not a good thing for Team Light, whether it's a DF/Forsaken or someone just as bad.

 I think it would be a poor plot twist if another Forsaken tried for exactly the same role that Semi occupied. And who could it be if it is not a Forsaken or a DF but  would be just as bad for Team Light? Suffa or Sevanna? I really can't imagine a scenario where Tuon would choose either.

 

 

Assuming its not just the official announcement of Selucia (which I think most likely due to the fact many of these could be deliberately misleading)

Tuon already announced that Selucia is her Truthspeaker back in tGS when she became empress. Don't see how much more official it can get and it's been a while since that happened too. Also, why would she ever refer to Selucia as holy?

 

 I'm tempted to say it may be an Aes Sedai (most likely Setalle post healing) as Tuon may be trying to bring the Seanchan round from their black and white views on channellers given her new knowledge of sul'dam and channeling along with her desire to integrate with the locals cultures more. This may also indicate why the formality and wording like 'she who may not be touched.' to stop her from being taken and becoming a damane.

 

I'm inclined toward it being an Aes Sedai too. After Tuon changes her mind about Aes Sedai (which will happen for sure at some point) she might be receptive to taking an Aes Sedai advisor. Making her a Truthspeaker would be a natural thing as it's an already accepted position among the Seanchan and serves much the same role. The thing about "may not be touched" is very weird though. Is the person in question wearing a Power disguise? Can't imagine why they would.

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Is the Truthspeaker the holy woman here?

 

Possibly Selucia announced the person being ignored as a holy woman. The holy woman protested the claim. The quote from Tuon could be her addressing the rest of the room to make the announcement. But normally I think her Voice would make that kind of address to a gathering.

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Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

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Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

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Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

 

There are three, and Berelain is descended from Hawkwing. Why wouldn't she want to be part of the Seanchan, assuming certain concessions are made?

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I think both Egwene and Faile mentioned wanting to shave her head on seperate occassions. Not coming up with the third off the top of my head, maybe mentioned twice by Faile?

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Damn. I hope I don't bleeping hear about "there are no more Brandon slams" in the regular discussion threads. 

 

Anyhow, 18 sounds to me like Selucia has been deposed, and Tuon brought under the influence of the dark side of the force, probably compulsed. 

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Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

 

Wait... why would the ruler of a city state want to become next in line for the Throne of an entire empire? Really?  :laugh:  

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