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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases


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Dom over at TL had a gem of a post concerning the Cads quote. Had to share it...

 

Dom

 

 

-I don't know what to do, but there's no escaping it. I've really made a terrible decision.

-It happens.

-It's not working. It's just not working.

_I might be able to help you, Cadsuane replied.

-How?

-Pass me his bond, she said. I will will train him and give him back to you. Trust me, I've broken Semirhage, the boy will be nothing.

-He would try a stone. I had in mind a more.. permanent solution, to be honest. Not that the oaths would let me not being honest.

“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

-Really? Hmm... I don't know how Elayne would react, she's sort of fond of Gawyn, in a way.

-Phaww! If she loves the idiot, pass his bond to her.

Egwene sighed. "Actually she refused to take his bond, and so did his mother, and his aunt. Even Myrelle doesn't want him. I'm of a mind to just dump his bond on the next sister I must send to penance.

 

 

 

Lol ... I like it!

 

It looks like Cadsuane might be involved in the BT resolution episode. That's one of the most likely places where her paralis-net will be useful.

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First impression was that the line reaked of mice and cheesestrings (or whatever the combination was). But now I'm not to sure, she didn't resort to this with Semirhage, although that was probably because she knew it wouldn't work.

 

 

 

I think I'm angling towards being unimpressed with something that somebody else did, she still has to teach the Ashaman something, so I'm going with one of them threatens her and that's her response.

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Kneeling beside the girl, Cadsuane laid the swallow on the ground beside her, took the girl's head in her hands and lessened the amount of saidar she was putting into the shield. Her abilities with Healing were no more than average, but she could wash away some of the girl's exhaustion at least without falling over herself.

 

 

So Cadsuane has average Healing abilities. And I really don't think she'd find it hard to stop a man's heart. You need to remember that Cadsuane has much more skill and experience with channeling that fricking Liandrin. What she finds easy others might find tough. 

 

Not to mention that there are many ways to stop a heart. We don't even know whether Cadsuane's way (if she's talking about an OP weave, though that seems likely) is the way Liandrin knows of.

 

 

Good find. I'm still not sure if average healing ability would be enough given the Liandrin quote but even assuming that it is, how would Cadsuane know? It's not like she could have had a lot of practice - the oaths would not allow it. I doubt she's been practicing on animals.

 

On a separate not it sounds like she is talking to a man. Do women ever fold arms at other women in WoT?

 

Another possibility is that Traveling is not disrupted but just sabotaged, maybe along the lines that Sammael used in CoS.  So Moridin has his channelers start leaving inverted wards that explode when Gateways are detected near civilian populations or something... This would be equivalent to a mine field making it too risky to just Travel anywhere you want.  Just an idea

 

I really don't think that's it. This would only preclude using Traveling (or whatever else Amys means) in certain situations.

Amys talks about a blanket ban.

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I'm wondering if the "we must not use this weave" part is about balefire.

 

The entire series we see balefire used without any consequences.  It is mentioned that it is the most feared thing in the entire world just about and in the AoL both sides stopped using it.  Demandred didn't want to use it at the DO's request, and even the Forsaken aren't comfortable with it entirely.  I've always wondered what the big issue is with it...obviously if gigantic angreals and thousands of channelers are using it in war then it can cause some issues, but overall the dangers of it seem far too exaggerated.  I've always wondered if there were some other dangers of balefire that were not made clear in the book.  Not something entirely new, but maybe something that we are going to find out in the last book...maybe all the balefire use in the series so far has actually had some consequences and this scene is part of where they begin to figure it out?

 

Logic dictates that balefire really is harmless if at most someone can only erase a few minutes of time.  Even together with 1000 channelers shooting it around it would only erase a few moments.  There has got to be some other consequences that we just haven't seen yet related to use of balefire.

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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

 

That's definitely a big part of the balefire usage in the series (that we know of), but when Rand blasts Graendals hideout he definitely uses more and erases more time.  Balefire is used pretty much throughout every book to some degree by one or another character.  If it's not Nynaeve or Moghedien, it's Rand and Moiraine or another Forsaken.

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Yes, but if Rand now knows what Lew Therin knew then Rand would have known exactly why not to use balefire.  I feel like he would have at least mentioned it to somebody if it was a revelation about balefire that could literally end the world/destroy the fabric of the universe/rip the lace of ages.

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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

 

There's a theory that all the lunacy going on in the world (the WT halls switching places, the dead walking, etc) are a result of some large scale use of BF off-screen. Specifically- that Demandred was tasked by the DO with using lots and lots of BF wherever he has been to start unraveling reality.

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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

There's a theory that all the lunacy going on in the world (the WT halls switching places, the dead walking, etc) are a result of some large scale use of BF off-screen. Specifically- that Demandred was tasked by the DO with using lots and lots of BF wherever he has been to start unraveling reality.

I believe in relation on that theory the "ripples" have been brought up as well. Balescreams should be the only evidence we need really to show how dangerous it is.

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Yes, but if Rand now knows what Lew Therin knew then Rand would have known exactly why not to use balefire.  I feel like he would have at least mentioned it to somebody if it was a revelation about balefire that could literally end the world/destroy the fabric of the universe/rip the lace of ages.

 

true - unless there are consequences that Lews Therin didn't understand either.  He did die at the end of the War of Power.  It's possible that some weird stuff went on during the breaking related to overuse of balefire.  Hell, it wouldn't be too far out in left field if we found out that the breaking actually had something to do with balefire use and wasn't just a bunch of Aes Sedai going nuts.  I always found the scale of destruction to be a little out of whack with the theory of several thousand male Aes Sedai going insane.  Seems to me like they could certainly wreck cities and demolish plenty of man-made portions of civilization...but reshaping the entire surface of the planet seems a little much.  It's a stretch of a thought, but its inside the realm of possibility imo.

Edited by Mark D
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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

 

There's a theory that all the lunacy going on in the world (the WT halls switching places, the dead walking, etc) are a result of some large scale use of BF off-screen. Specifically- that Demandred was tasked by the DO with using lots and lots of BF wherever he has been to start unraveling reality.

 

 

Ya I like this theory myself.  Would help explain a lot in my mind.

 

The bore was totally uncorked in the AoL and the world wasn't ending immediately, but now suddenly time literally seems to be dying and some really whacky things are going on just as the bore is getting close to being unsealed.  Large use of balefire unravelling the pattern would be an excellent explanation for this imo.

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@MarkD - I like this, I think the most time that's been lost is in Caemlyn, where Rand balefires Rahvin to a point before Mat and Avi die, but it still can't be more than an hour. And so far we haven't seen any negative consequences, there has to be some sometime.

 

There's a theory that all the lunacy going on in the world (the WT halls switching places, the dead walking, etc) are a result of some large scale use of BF off-screen. Specifically- that Demandred was tasked by the DO with using lots and lots of BF wherever he has been to start unraveling reality.

 

 

 

It doesn't have to be all the lunacy, really. Some of it started quite early like the bubbles of evil - that's just the DO's touch. But some of it is most likely balefire. I believe in the theory that the ripples Perrin and Faile felt in KoD on separate occasions were balescreams. And something has to account for the serious deterioration of the Pattern. Comparing the sate of the world now to what it was just prior to the Sealing in the AOL (as seen in Rand's visions in Rhuidean) it looks worse now and that with the Bore not fully open yet.

 

The problems with the weave Amys means being balefire have been discussed already. Of all the Aiel allies only Aes Sedai know how to use it (maybe not even all of them)  and they are fully aware of consequences. The Seafolk (they are allies too)  don't know how to make balefire. There are no male channelers among the Aiel so Amys means women here. And the Wise Ones are fully aware of negative consequences of using balefire after  Natrin's Barrow. It is also quite certain that Nynaeve will use balefire for something important. There would be no need to include all that stuff about her refusal to swear not to use it during the testing if it was not going to come up in AMOL.

Edited by herid
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Yes, but if Rand now knows what Lew Therin knew then Rand would have known exactly why not to use balefire.  I feel like he would have at least mentioned it to somebody if it was a revelation about balefire that could literally end the world/destroy the fabric of the universe/rip the lace of ages.

 

true

 

 

That's assuming LTT understands just how dangerous BF actually is. He's not omniscient, and in fact has quite a history of falling on the reckless side of things. For all we know, LTT disagreed with the original decision to stop using BF (Im pretty sure he didn't know back then that it was the only way to stop Forsaken reincarnation). Perhaps the same people that proposed the Fateful Concord were the party pushing the banning of BF, they seemed to have been the more conservative and foresighted faction. 

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Quote still not working :(

 

@MarkD

 

We don't know how much time was erased at Graendals hideout, although it is likely to be more.

 

@TGlems,

 

An excellent point!

 

@mbuehner, Suttree

 

I haven't heard that theory about the unravelling of the Pattern - ghosts, etc as being linked to balefire, although it makes perfect sense.

 

What I mean is that there haven't been any negative consequences for the characters - Mat's been saved twice though this, Avi once... Perrin, Faile & Mat have all had nasty experiences, Elayne got lost in her palace and Eg has seen some ghosts (talk about summarising). The concensus between them seems to be (Nyns statement after her testing) that balefire is a necessary evil. The blanket ban makes sense in response to this, although I'm not sure how or why the WO would find out about it first. If it had to do with TAR I'd expect to have seen some sign of it in ToM, I guess it could be the world of Dreams, Eg doesn't seem to spend much time there at the moment (as she spends her time 'dreaming' which I assume isn't in the world of dreams (balls of light place) or TAR).

 

 

I think my personal preference is for either a weave that harms the weaver in some way (makes sense to warn allies only), or something that Bair(?) discovers on her walk through the pillars (although I don't think there will be time for that). Maybe they see Nyn ripping Rand out of TAR and their's a problem with that, but the message seems to be widespread and this would affect relatively few people.

 

Between travelling and balefire (which are the 2 discussed so far) I think balefire is the likelier of the 2.

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 Of all the Aiel allies only Aes Sedai know how to use it (maybe not even all of them)  and they are fully aware of consequences. The Seafolk (they are allies too)  don't know how to make balefire. There are no male channelers among the Aiel so Amys means women here. And the Wise Ones are fully aware of negative consequences of using balefire after  Natrin's Barrow. It is also quite certain that Nynaeve will use balefire for something important. There would be no need to include all that stuff about her refusal to swear not to use it during the testing if it was not going to come up in AMOL.

 

 

Devils advocate here- perhaps the knowledge of BF will be passed to the allies by Rand at the FoM as the means to kill Forsaken, and THEN the adverse effects become known to Amys somehow, later in the book.

Edited by mbuehner
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The balefire thing is just an idea - I am leaning more towards "the weave" being something else though.  Traveling is a great idea too considering how the pattern is unravelling.

 

The more I think about it, balefire seems to have already been decided on being a bad thing and there is no reason to spread the word that it's a bad thing still to the few who know how to use it.

Edited by Mark D
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Could be Traveling, I suppose. I seem to recall a quote from Sanderson about how he was using Traveling a lot more in his combat sequences than RJ had ever intended. Or maybe I'm just imagining that. My memory isn't what it used to be.

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Day 16:

 

 

"Do not cut off your foot for fear that a snake will bite it, Perrin Aybara. Do not make a terrible mistake because you fear something that seems worse. This is all I will say on the topic."

 

Not much to go on.  An Aiel is talking to Perrin and telling him not to be scared into making a stupid decision.  I say an Aiel because they use his full name, and refer to a snake bite.  Seems Aiel-like to me.

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Day 16:

 

 

"Do not cut off your foot for fear that a snake will bite it, Perrin Aybara. Do not make a terrible mistake because you fear something that seems worse. This is all I will say on the topic."

 

Not much to go on.  An Aiel is talking to Perrin and telling him not to be scared into making a stupid decision.  I say an Aiel because they use his full name, and refer to a snake bite.  Seems Aiel-like to me.

Gaul seems possible, but the voice sounds more authoritative, perhaps a Wise One?  Although it could also just be an uncomfortable topic for Gaul- assumedly something to do with Perrin's marriage.

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I think today's quote is Gaul talking to Perrin. And I believe Gaul is talking about Perrin being a wolf brother.

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Day 16:

 

 

 

"Do not cut off your foot for fear that a snake will bite it, Perrin Aybara. Do not make a terrible mistake because you fear something that seems worse. This is all I will say on the topic."

 

Not much to go on.  An Aiel is talking to Perrin and telling him not to be scared into making a stupid decision.  I say an Aiel because they use his full name, and refer to a snake bite.  Seems Aiel-like to me.

 

 

Gaul seems possible, but the voice sounds more authoritative, perhaps a Wise One?  Although it could also just be an uncomfortable topic for Gaul- assumedly something to do with Perrin's marriage.

 

 

 

Agreed, sounds more like a Wise One to me. No idea what is being discussed though.
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My first thought was Faile, but an Aiel sounds just as likely.  My guess is he has a faction that will fight with him but he is reluctant to use them like the wolves/TwoRivers lads/Whitecloaks...that's my instinct on it.

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Here's a little theory of mine which may well provide another reason to 'stop' balefire use for at least the forces of light though still doesn't explain the Chosen's reluctance.

 

If balefire destroys the pattern, is there a case that the DO is separated from the world by the pattern, this means that every use of balefire actually helps release the DO further. I've always wondered how the bore was drilled, if it was some sort of concentrated balefire at some point where the pattern is 'thinnest' (A term used to describe Shayol Ghul), then even if Rand is successful in properly resealing the bore (not just patching it ) then events at Natrin's Barrow could have set in motion the location on the next turning of the wheel the equivalent place to where the bore was drilled.

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On the weave that the wise ones want to stop using.

 

It occurs to me that this might be unrelated to the LB but rather a weave they want to keep out of Seanchan hands. While it's entirely possible this is Balefire, it seems to me it could be a weave that proves disastrous to Aiel via the Rhuidean Pillars. Balefire does fit this bill, but so do more deceptive weaves like MoM.

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