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The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases


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May not be a weave at all. Could be a comment on someone poisoned (such as in "A Cup of Sleep"). At a stretch it could even be a lecture about the nature of love and fool men, etc. Not all of these daily "Memories" will be spoilers, surely some of them will be red herrings.

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@Lacanos I didn't say it was a mistake. It doesn't have to be even if she refers to killing with the OP which is not a given. And  we don't know how good Cadsuane is at Healing. At least I don't remember it mentioned anywhere. You may be right about the distinction between ease and simplicity but it still wouldn't explain how Cadsuane knows about such things.

Well it would be quite a simple thing for anyone who has any basic skill in healing.

there is no evidence of that. I would say the quote that Sentinel gave suggests that the opposite is true. Chesmal was one of the best Healers in the Tower in generations. And Linadrin mentions Rianna's talent, rather than ability which suggests that Rianna is pretty good at Healing too.

Edited by herid
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@Herid

 

Do we know where Chesmal and Rianna sit in relation to Nyn or Samitsu?

 

The evidence to me is plainly stated in tht Liandrin admits se can barely heal a cut or bruise and as such it's difficult to do those things. That is far below why would be considered average skill for that area. Just my read, I'm open to other explanations.

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Cadsuane does actually try and to Heal Rand, Samitsu comments that if she hadn't, he would most likely had died on the spot. As to how good she is, I don't think we are ever told. But her being a Green and having had several Warders, I would imagine that she isn't all that bad at Healing.

Edited by Manscher
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Thing is most of the AS dont really think about using the one power as a weapon. Oh they of course use fireballs and lightning strikes. But few really think much more than flashy showy stuff. add in a few small earthquake type eruptions etc. But all of those are blatantly the work of the one power.

 

This made me think of something kind of random, but are Aes Sedai even allowed to hunt with the OP?  The third Oath says:

 

Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

 

Stopping anything's heart with the OP, even an animal, would seem to be forbidden by the Oaths so, in truth, any non-DF Aes Sedai would have no idea how easy or hard it would be to stop someone's heart with the OP since they are forbidden from trying.  Cadsuane could simply be stating an assumption here as an implied threat without any direct knowledge of how to do it, i.e., she might find it more difficult to do if she tried.  Liandrin on the other hand actually uses the OP as a weapon and knows more about the difficulties than Cadsuane.  

 

Of course, a non-DF Aes Sedai who Heals a lot might have killed a patient or two by mistake while performing cardio-Healing, who knows.  Anyway, the more I think about this the more I'm willing to let it slide.  Liandrin may have had unique knowledge of how to stealth murder with the OP, and is more aware of its difficulties than Cadsuane will probably ever be.  Cadsuane has probably killed her share of people, but not with stealthy weaves like heart-stoppers most likely.  If Cadsuane was in the last extreme defense of her own life, she'd use something more practical.

 

The Third Oath should have said:

Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life including when she's really hungry, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

 

Edited by Sentinel78
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@Herid

 

Do we know where Chesmal and Rianna sit in relation to Nyn or Samitsu?

 

That's never discussed (I'm sure Nyn is better though)  but it's mentioned several times that Chemsal is a very talented Healer. For example, in tFoH, ch 18 Liandrin thinks

Chesmal said he might be able to do small tasks in a few months, so long as they were not too hard and no one raised a voice. She had been one of the best Healers in generations among the Yellow, so she should know.

So what's easy for Chesmal need not be easy or even possible for a Healer with average abilities.

 

Cadsuane does actually try and to Heal Rand, Samitsu comments that if she hadn't, he would most likely had died on the spot. As to how good she is, I don't think we are ever told. But her being a Green and having had several Warders, I would imagine that she isn't all that bad at Healing.

I thought she did too but I couldn't find that quote so I thought I was mistaken. Where does Samitsu say that?

 

@Sentinel Well, Romanda and the others killed some cockroaches in tGS so perhaps the third oath applies to people only.

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I thought she did too but I couldn't find that quote so I thought I was mistaken. Where does Samitsu say that?

Believe it's in the scene when they get him to the bed and Flinn steps in?

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Cadsuane does actually try and to Heal Rand, Samitsu comments that if she hadn't, he would most likely had died on the spot. As to how good she is, I don't think we are ever told. But her being a Green and having had several Warders, I would imagine that she isn't all that bad at Healing.

I thought she did too but I couldn't find that quote so I thought I was mistaken. Where does Samitsu say that?

 

 

Right after Fain stabs Rand in Blades chpt from CoS:

 

 

 

... But I will tell you this.  I think if I had been one moment slower, perhaps if you had not tried first, he would be dead now.

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@Sentinel and Suttree Thanks. Unfortunately, this doesn't tell us much about how good Cadsuane is at Healing. The fact that she couldn't Heal Rand's wound in that scene doesn't mean much.

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I'd dare say blasting his head off with a fireball, classifies as stopping a man's heart :p It's likely Cadsuane putting some Alpha Male type Asha'man in place during an argument.

That's possible but it would still not explain why she thinks that it's easy to stop someone's heart with the OP (if that's what she means).

 

 

Why are we assuming that she means what she literally what she said? When has anything been literal in this series? The series is built upon half-truths and misdirection, Aes Sedai more than most, no matter how "direct" Cads is.

 

I would argue that she simply meant killing someone is easy. I like the early theories that she was retorting to a Taim'man who threatened her. After all the talk about how adept she is at catching men who channel, at how she came out of retirement simply to hunt Logain and Taim, it would be fitting for her to play a major role in healing the Black Tower. If she goes in there and she acts like her normal, assertive self, the arrogant pricks certainly wouldn't like that. She could throw out a line about how unimpressed she is (If she could act unimpressed with the Savior of the World and the strongest male channeler in 3000 years, she may not even have to fain this), an Asha says something like, "We'll see how impressed you are when I stop your heart," and then she replies with this.

 

To me, that's much more likely than Cads knowing how to actually stop someone's heart with the OP. She never mentions the OP in the quote, nor even alludes to it. It's only through her role as an AS that we jumped to OP killing, even though Cads has shown that she, unlike many AS, doesn't see the OP as the best way to do everything.

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I'd dare say blasting his head off with a fireball, classifies as stopping a man's heart :p It's likely Cadsuane putting some Alpha Male type Asha'man in place during an argument.

That's possible but it would still not explain why she thinks that it's easy to stop someone's heart with the OP (if that's what she means).

 

 

Why are we assuming that she means what she literally what she said? When has anything been literal in this series? The series is built upon half-truths and misdirection, Aes Sedai more than most, no matter how "direct" Cads is.

This is certainly possible but even in WoT people don't often go around speaking in metaphors. Metaphors abound in  prophecies, dreams etc but  they are rarely used in regular speech.  This is particularly true of Cadsuane, who as you say is known to be quite direct. I don't recall her ever using such language.

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Day #1 "It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important."

 

Probably Rand. I don't think we'll get a POV from one of the 3 Asha'man that are currently with Ituralde & we know Rodel himself hasn't used anything that nobody else should know about.

 

I've checked the list of ter'angreal on the wiki, but none of them seem to be particularly useful or Rand has never been close to them & cannot possibly posess them. The sa'angreal used by men (that we know of) are difficult to hide or inaccessible without the proper ter'angreal. Which leaves us with an angreal or the previously mentioned dagger.

 

Aviendha found out about the dagger in KoD & then gave the dagger back to Elayne. Elayne hasn't seen Rand between KoD & the fields of Merrilor (as far as I remember anyway), so it's unlikely that it's in Rand's posession.

 

The fat man angreal could still be an option.

 

Still, if the POV is from someone serving the shadow, it could be anything.

 

Day #2 "'I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara'"

 

Someone talking to Olver, Arlen Nalaam or Androl.

 

Day #3 "'Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn't you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.'"

 

Loial

 

Day #4 "Pass his bond to me."

 

Someone to Alanna

 

Day #5 "'Creator shelter us,' she whispered. Mat scowled. 'You know, that's what Tuon said.'"

 

Dunno, maybe Mat is sent out to the WT in order to demand its surrender along with a rather large army that includes Sul'dam & damane, instead tries to find a diplomatic sollution, is initially ignored or treated like crap in his opinion, until he points out that there's a relatively large army at his disposal that also has channelers amongst them.

 

He propably wouldn't intend to use the army, just create a shock effect so that the Aes Sedai will get off their high horses, but it'll have exactly the opposite effect & eventually it'll lead to a full scale battle, which he cannot stop.

 

The light preserve us part would be said when the Aes Sedai notice(s) the amount of channelers amongst the enemy army, just before all hell breaks loose. Since Mat's diplomatic aproach hasn't been very successful & since Tuon said exactly the same thing when Mat proposed to go to Tar Valon, knowing how Mat thinks about Damane & not believing he'd be successful, Mat becomes pissed & starts scowling.

 

This probably isn't going to happen, but it'd fit nicely with the quote from day 11. Since it's nearly impossible to place these quotes into context, anything is possible.

 

Day #6 "The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment."

 

Galad accidently stumbling across a group of Trollocs that just left the ways to attack place X.

 

Day #7 "'Nobody travels the Ways,' Ituralde said, aghast."

 

Well, if traveling is no longer an option & skimming isn't really an option for large armies either, it's the only remaining option if you quickly want to move from place A to B. (see below)

 

Day #8 "Egwene strode around a frozen pillar of glass in her dream. It almost looked like a column of light. What did it mean? She could not interpret it."

 

-

 

Day #9 "The letter was written in Mat's hand. And, Elayne noticed with amusement, the handwriting was much neater and the spelling much better in this one than the one he'd sent her weeks ago."

 

-

 

Day #10 "'And farewell to you, old friend,' she said to the air. 'Until I dream again.'"

 

Someone talking to a Hero of the Horn. Don't know if it's Birgitte talking to one of her colleagues or if someone is talking to Birgitte.

 

Day #11 "'One more thing, the marath'damane . . .'

'I'll deal with those channelers personally,' Mat said. She gawked at him as if he were insane."

 

See day 5

 

Day #12 "Enough talk. You will bed me now."

 

Olver to Talmanes.

 

Seriously though, this could be any dominant woman to any male in WOT & we've got a fair share of dominant women in this series.

 

Day #13 "'We must spread the word to all of our allies,' Amys said. 'We must not use this weave.'"

 

Interview: Jul 19th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part III (Verbatim)

Week 14 Question

Military strategy in the War of Power must have been odd, indeed. How do the concepts of capturing and holding territory even make sense in a world where forces can Travel?

Robert Jordan

Good question, though not all of the forces involved could use gateways. (Rafo! Rafo!) Think of the ability to Travel in terms of moving troops via aircraft, and you will begin to get the picture. Even with the largest possible circles, there are limits to the size of gateways and thus limits to the front along which you can move troops out through it, the numbers you can commit simultaneously. Of course, you can use multiple gateways, but each is still only so large and can admit only so many soldiers at a time.

So-called front lines were very fluid, but you couldn't fling your forces in anywhere without regard to what would be surrounding them or how you were going to re-supply, reinforce or withdraw them. Although no one has shown it so far in the books, there are ways to interfere with the making of a gateway—and ways to defend against interference—so the battle would take place on many levels. Yes, any area you hold can be attacked by your enemy, and you can attack any area that he holds. (Part of the result was great destruction and a great fall-off in the ability to produce high tech items. By the time the Bore was sealed, soldiers were already much, much more likely to ride horses and carry swords than to ride armored vehicles or aircraft and carry shocklances, which had all become very rare.) But holding an area is not impossible so long as you can successfully disrupt your opponent's attempts to make gateways into it. Even if he manages to get those first soldiers in, if you can disrupt his ability to reinforce, re-supply or withdraw, it becomes another Dien Bien Phu for him. Of course, if you fail, then it becomes Gettysburg or Waterloo, a bloody fight that will be decisive for somebody. At least until the next "decisive" battle is fought. Remember, that designation is always given after the fact, by historians.

 

Ways. We've only seen one way until now, the dreamspike.

 

The forsaken fought during the war of power & maybe they know weaves that'll destroy the person trying to create a gate at the moment of it's creation, thus collapsing the gate & eliminating an enemy at the same time. I do not know if such weaves would affect their own gates, but considering the last battle is going to happen soon, I think they'll command their armies & most of them cannot travel through a gateway anyway.

 

Day #14 "That, she replied back, is something one should never, never say to an Aes Sedai. Ever."

 

Maybe Mat says something to an Aes Sedai.

 

Day #15 "'It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,' Cadsuane said, arms folded."

 

Cadsuane talking to one of the forsaken or a dreadlord, who's trying to scare Cadsuane by showing his/her power/skills. Cadsuane is not impressed. Don't know why a forsaken wouldn't simply (try to) kill Cadsuane, though...

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Kneeling beside the girl, Cadsuane laid the swallow on the ground beside her, took the girl's head in her hands and lessened the amount of saidar she was putting into the shield. Her abilities with Healing were no more than average, but she could wash away some of the girl's exhaustion at least without falling over herself.

 

So Cadsuane has average Healing abilities. And I really don't think she'd find it hard to stop a man's heart. You need to remember that Cadsuane has much more skill and experience with channeling that fricking Liandrin. What she finds easy others might find tough. 

 

Not to mention that there are many ways to stop a heart. We don't even know whether Cadsuane's way (if she's talking about an OP weave, though that seems likely) is the way Liandrin knows of.

Edited by fionwe1987
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Kneeling beside the girl, Cadsuane laid the swallow on the ground beside her, took the girl's head in her hands and lessened the amount of saidar she was putting into the shield. Her abilities with Healing were no more than average, but she could wash away some of the girl's exhaustion at least without falling over herself.

So Cadsuane has average Healing abilities. And I really don't think she'd find it hard to stop a man's heart. You need to remember that Cadsuane has much more skill and experience with channeling that fricking Liandrin. What she finds easy others might find tough.

 

Not to mention that there are many ways to stop a heart. We don't even know whether Cadsuane's way (if she's talking about an OP weave, though that seems likely) is the way Liandrin knows of.

Yeah that is pretty much how I was looking at it... Edited by Suttree
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Kneeling beside the girl, Cadsuane laid the swallow on the ground beside her, took the girl's head in her hands and lessened the amount of saidar she was putting into the shield. Her abilities with Healing were no more than average, but she could wash away some of the girl's exhaustion at least without falling over herself.

 

 

So Cadsuane has average Healing abilities. And I really don't think she'd find it hard to stop a man's heart. You need to remember that Cadsuane has much more skill and experience with channeling that fricking Liandrin. What she finds easy others might find tough. 

 

Not to mention that there are many ways to stop a heart. We don't even know whether Cadsuane's way (if she's talking about an OP weave, though that seems likely) is the way Liandrin knows of.

 

Liandrin's problem was no so much that she couldn't stop hearts at will, it was that she couldn't do it in a way that didn't obviously involve the One Power.  She could squash a man's chest to stop his heart, etc., but ability with Healing would help to Delve so that the heart is stopped without leaving all kinds of other One Power evidence.  That's the difficulty I think.  Additional difficulty would involve doing that at a distance without physical contact, which helps with Delving.  So Cadsuane could probably get the job done if she didn't care about evidence I suppose, but again, if you don't care about evidence there are better ways to kill people than attacking interior organs you cannot see, since channeling against something you cannot visualize directly is difficult.

 

 

Day #13 "'We must spread the word to all of our allies,' Amys said. 'We must not use this weave.'"

Interview: Jul 19th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part III (Verbatim)

Week 14 Question

Military strategy in the War of Power must have been odd, indeed. How do the concepts of capturing and holding territory even make sense in a world where forces can Travel?

Robert Jordan

Good question, though not all of the forces involved could use gateways. (Rafo! Rafo!) Think of the ability to Travel in terms of moving troops via aircraft, and you will begin to get the picture. Even with the largest possible circles, there are limits to the size of gateways and thus limits to the front along which you can move troops out through it, the numbers you can commit simultaneously. Of course, you can use multiple gateways, but each is still only so large and can admit only so many soldiers at a time.

So-called front lines were very fluid, but you couldn't fling your forces in anywhere without regard to what would be surrounding them or how you were going to re-supply, reinforce or withdraw them. Although no one has shown it so far in the books, there are ways to interfere with the making of a gateway—and ways to defend against interference—so the battle would take place on many levels. Yes, any area you hold can be attacked by your enemy, and you can attack any area that he holds. (Part of the result was great destruction and a great fall-off in the ability to produce high tech items. By the time the Bore was sealed, soldiers were already much, much more likely to ride horses and carry swords than to ride armored vehicles or aircraft and carry shocklances, which had all become very rare.) But holding an area is not impossible so long as you can successfully disrupt your opponent's attempts to make gateways into it. Even if he manages to get those first soldiers in, if you can disrupt his ability to reinforce, re-supply or withdraw, it becomes another Dien Bien Phu for him. Of course, if you fail, then it becomes Gettysburg or Waterloo, a bloody fight that will be decisive for somebody. At least until the next "decisive" battle is fought. Remember, that designation is always given after the fact, by historians.

Ways. We've only seen one way until now, the dreamspike.

 

The forsaken fought during the war of power & maybe they know weaves that'll destroy the person trying to create a gate at the moment of it's creation, thus collapsing the gate & eliminating an enemy at the same time. I do not know if such weaves would affect their own gates, but considering the last battle is going to happen soon, I think they'll command their armies & most of them cannot travel through a gateway anyway.

 

Another possibility is that Traveling is not disrupted but just sabotaged, maybe along the lines that Sammael used in CoS.  So Moridin has his channelers start leaving inverted wards that explode when Gateways are detected near civilian populations or something... This would be equivalent to a mine field making it too risky to just Travel anywhere you want.  Just an idea

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- There is a difference between 'simple' and 'easy'.   Its simple to slam dunk a basketball. Its difficult to do it.

- Liandrin should never be compared to Cadsuane in experience, skill, much less raw power. That Liandrian finds something difficult is nothing to Cadsuane.  Michael Jordan compared to... well, me, to continue the dunking analogy.

- Cadsuane may be threatening someone, in order to keep her oaths but create a scary threat, she could be making that statement knowing that 'it is a simple thing' for SOME channelers to do it. If perhaps not herself.

 

That being said I'll throw out another possibility-

“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

"The difficult part is starting it again"

 

Per fulfilling Rand's death prophecy of course.

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Dom over at TL had a gem of a post concerning the Cads quote. Had to share it...

 

Dom

 

-I don't know what to do, but there's no escaping it. I've really made a terrible decision.
-It happens.
-It's not working. It's just not working.
_I might be able to help you, Cadsuane replied.
-How?
-Pass me his bond, she said. I will will train him and give him back to you. Trust me, I've broken Semirhage, the boy will be nothing.
-He would try a stone. I had in mind a more.. permanent solution, to be honest. Not that the oaths would let me not being honest.
“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.
-Really? Hmm... I don't know how Elayne would react, she's sort of fond of Gawyn, in a way.
-Phaww! If she loves the idiot, pass his bond to her.
Egwene sighed. "Actually she refused to take his bond, and so did his mother, and his aunt. Even Myrelle doesn't want him. I'm of a mind to just dump his bond on the next sister I must send to penance.

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*Chortle* *Chortle*

 

On a serious note, I really don't know about the Cads quote.  My first reaction was her talking strategy with Aiel Wise Ones, and explaining why some particular person needs to die, and in a non-suspicious manner.

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Probably nothing but towards the end of TDR, one of the BA who captured the wonder girls talks about stopping the Wisdom's heart. I forget which one, whichever one was leading that sorry expedition.

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As someone posted on a previous page, channelers seem to complicate everything. I've always thought a good way to defeat a shadowspawn army would be to create a solid, extremely thin ribbon of air across the battlefield and let the shadowspawn charge through it cutting themselves in half!

 

Aran'gar had the right idea - smother the AS in a solid weave of Air around their face. Simple, quick, effective.

 

To stop a heart, create a weave of solid air through the heart. It's not like autopsies are common practice in Randland. But I suppose people randomly dropping dead isn't exactly common either... until recently anyway.

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Chesmal was the expert at stopping hearts, and according to Liandrin, the ability to kill purely with the power (weaving into body and causing it to stop working) is linked closely to the ability with Healing.  This type of killing with the power, if done correctly, makes it appear one has "died in their sleep", or just passed away naturally.

 

I always thought that any channeler could probably weave flows into someone's chest, and cause the heart to be crushed, but well, this would be an obvious unnatural death.  (although if no Aes Sedai were around to Delve, I suppose it would still be seen as natural as I don't see any autopsies happening at this point in time).

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Why is Cads making idle threats at the end of the world? Who could she threaten with the DO on the verge of breaking loose? The only one she could say it to and have any effect is either a.) someone who plans on surviving the LB or 2.) someone who has plans that, if interrupted by the Light, would be the end of them if they were interrupted. 

 

If shes just being Cads and making lame threats to random people, then, meh...VERY WEAKSAUCE. This has to be a very critical point in the story or AMoL has more lame filling than we think. 

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