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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases


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I thought the Maidens (and the Aiel in general) stop respected Aes Sedai as a whole? Most of them have pretty much said straight out that they view most Aes Sedai (bar Egwene and Cadsuane) as children. This quote definitely sounds like something said by only someone who is intimidated by/respects Aes Sedai.

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@Sentinel I'm far from sold on it being handtalk, actually. This was just an idea. I see msbee had the same one at the same time. But  Manscher makes a good point about it, that the quote is unlikely to be form a maiden as they have long since lost most respect for Aes Sedai (not as much as the Wise Ones, however). And I'm not sure Faile is proficient enough to form that sentence in handtalk. I rather think she isn't.

 

Anyway, there is not much in this memory of real interest so it would be much more fun to figure out what  it was the other person said addressing an Aes Sedai.

Something like "Don't lie to me, old woman! I know you made that  power wrought sword." would be good. :)

Edited by herid
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Someone commenting on an Aes Sedai's age, or questioning her bond to her warder, or (with some Aes Sedai) daring to say "no" to a request, or asking her if she was Black Ajah, or whatever thing of the 100 things that a Randlander should "never ever" say to an AS.

 

Looking forward to day 15 already! Memory 14 is to vague to grasp.

Edited by Theodril
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@Sentinel I'm far from sold on it being handtalk, actually. This was just an idea. I see msbee had the same one at the same time. But  Manscher makes a good point about it, that the quote is unlikely to be form a maiden as they have long since lost most respect for Aes Sedai (not as much as the Wise Ones, however). And I'm not sure Faile is proficient enough to form that sentence in handtalk. I rather think she isn't.)

I was imagining two maidens overhearing (say)Rand taking an Aes Sedai down a peg or two. Or Mat being flippant, or Perrin being blunt.

The handtalk comes as they wait for an explosive reaction. I didn't read it as respectful in any way, more sardonic, with a raised eyebrow...

I agree that Faile probably isn't proficient enough for this one.

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The new one:

 

"That, she replied back, is something one should never, never say to an Aes Sedai. Ever."

 

Cadsuane? Pevara? Egwene?

Olver.

 

Because of the childish grammatical mistakes (replied back?)

 

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Olver.

 

Because of the childish grammatical mistakes (replied back?)

 

I was just thinking that, FSM.  Not Olver specifically, but perhaps a child speaking or someone scolding a child.  Olver is by far the most notable child in the series, but there are others, including some of the leaders of the major houses in Andor, and some from the Two Rivers.  Perhaps a very young Novice.

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According to NS, The third greatest rudeness among Aes Sedai is to mention someone's strength in the Power. The second greatest rudeness is failure to defer to someone stronger than you. What's #1 on the list of ways to be rude to a sister? I always postulated it was commenting on her weight.

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It HAS to be a child character. How can it not NOT be?? - I mean, what ADULT speaks like that??

 

If its an adult character being quoted it would be Massive Fail. Boycott-worthy

 

 

Fish

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If it's a child how does it square off with the use of italic? Italic implies indirect speech of some sort. Maiden handtalk, writing or some kind of long distance communication. Carenna thought that she might be able to adapt the eavesdropping trick to do that (LoC, prologue). Not sure if this would make the "replied back" thing more natural.

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Maybe he was texting? Eh rubbish joke. But still maybe he was passing a note to some lassy he'd like to ask to Beltane. But no. Herid was right in the previous post, if it was dialogue it'd "have inverted commas" he said.

Edited by Rocky_Outcrop
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Also, emphasized words in italics are not italicized. So Brandon was just putting extra emphasis on the second 'never'

Yup, standard typography is to unitalicize words that would have been italicized in a normal sentence.

 

Maiden handtalk seems like a good explanation, e.g. 2 Maidens commenting on someone's rudeness to AS (edit: I see msbee already posted this idea). But which Maidens know enough about what is considered rude by AS? I was actually thinking a former Maiden like Amys or Avi, but would they indulge in handtalk?

 

Another possibility is Tuon to Selucia, since they seem to have a pretty complicated sign language between them. But again, I don't think that Tuon would know what's rude for an AS (or care).

 

Also, "replied back" makes a bit more sense in the context of handtalk or sign language, since it's a directed kind of communication, and thus "back" could refer to direction instead of being just redundant with "reply". Does that make sense?

Edited by wintermute
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Interesting point about italic. Maiden's handtalk?

What's really weird is that the second "never" is not italicized.  Don't see any reasonable explanation for that. Poor editing, perhaps?

 

It's for emphasis. I've seen it done plenty of times, not just by Brandon. When providing emphasis in italicized text, the emphasized word isn't italicized. 

 

If this is a thought, then I have to agree that "never, never" is incorrect grammar. If it's speech, then I can accept that a person may repeat a word for emphasis in making their point. Hmm...

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It's obviously some form of speech, even if only internal speech, so the repetition and the emphatic stress make sense grammatically. I really don't see a huge problem grammatically in this sentence. "Replied back" is actually a fairly common phrase, at least to me.

 

As for the quote, a different thought could be Egwene talking to Amys/Bair/Melaine through dream messages. If I recall correctly, when Egwene contacts Nyn and Elayne in their dreams, it appears in italics. It would also explain the defensive and offended tone, if one of the formally subservient Aiel disrespecting an Aes Sedai directly, especially the Amyrlin Seat

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(can't seem to quote anyone at the moment, so sorry these are general thoughts)

 

So a couple of thoughts:

 

'must spread the word'...

 

I'm with Kestrel, I think it's a weave that's harmful to the weaver. Doubt it's entering TAR, as they've always stated that it's evil, perhaps something new. Maybe it's in response to Bairs visit through the pillars, although I don't think their's enough time for this.

 

Also they'll do it through dreaming, they stated that when the Aiel clan were scattered it would take them several days to contact everybody, now they're together should only need to contact a few people within each respective army/group in order to 'spread the word sufficiently'. Will also be able to warn Eg the same way, telling the AS will then be her problem, but again, they're pretty gathered at the moment, and I'm not sure I see them splintering to badly. If they do, then I don't see them forming groups without Aiel involved, so would find out that way.

 

 

never never... (lost text bar so can't italicise)

I don't think this is Aiel handtalk, if it is then it has to be Avi over'watching' them talk, but I don't see any Aiel caring enough to comment as to whether a AS has been offended.

 

My first guess was that it was Setalle to Mat, works if it is a flashback - she has history of trying to 'guide' Mat. Agree that second never is both an emphasis and emphasised, but the replied back is likely a gramatical error.

 

Whoever is talking is almost definately talking to Mat, although I can just about see Eg with Gawyn.

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"We must spread the word to all of our allies," Amys said. "We must not use this weave." (Sentence from aMoL)

I had a look at the EncWoT page on weaves. There are a few interesting ones. Besides balefire, Travelling, Compulsion, and Unweaving, there are also:

 

Earth Singing: The ability to control movements of the earth, for example, preventing or causing earthquakes or avalanches. (LoC,Glossary, under 'Talents')

 

Spinning Earthfire: Unknown (LoC39)

 

Both of these sound very unwise to use in view of Randland's present instability.

 

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“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

 

 

Is she threatening a black Asha'man before she puts him to the question?

 
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Day 15:

“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

 

I’m guessing that Cadsuane is doing some kind of forensic analysis of Light leader assassination(s), i.e., explaining why some people are dropping dead. I think Team Jordan / Tor is trying to throw us a red herring quote to make us think she’s Black Ajah maybe, but I don’t buy that for a second.

 

However, it’s actually not easy to stop a man’s heart with the Power. It requires skill in Healing, which is complex. Assuming that Cadsuane was not talking about some kind of poison, this may be an error… From Chpt 38 of tSR:

 

Liandrin ghosted through the halls, easily avoiding servants and Whitecloaks. When she stepped out of a small back door into a narrow alley behind the palace, the tall young guard . there stared at her with a blend of relief and unease. Her little trick of opening someone to her suggestions-just a whip-crack trickle of the Power had not been needed with Carridin, but it had easily convinced this fool that she should be allowed in. Smiling, she motioned him to bend closer. The lanky lout grinned as if expecting a kiss, a grin that froze as her narrow blade went through his eye.

 

She leaped nimbly back as he fell, a boneless sack of flesh. He would not speak of her even by accident now. Not so much as a spot of blood stained her hand. She wished she had Chesmal's skill at killing with the Power, or even Rianna's lesser talent. Strange that the ability to kill with the Power, to stop a heart or boil blood in the veins, should be so closely linked to Healing. She herself could not Heal much more than scrapes or bruises; not that she had any interest in it.

 

Liandrin had to go around stabbing people in the eye because she had no way to kill with the Power in a way that wouldn’t be traced back to Aes Sedai… So… stopping a man’s heart must not be so simple, or else Cadsuane underestimates the level of skill in Healing that is required, or else Team Jordan missed Liandrin's commentary on this aspect.  

Edited by Sentinel78
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I'd dare say blasting his head off with a fireball, classifies as stopping a man's heart :p

 

It's likely Cadsuane putting some Alpha Male type Asha'man in place during an argument.

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Well it would be quite a simple thing for anyone who has any basic skill in healing. If you can't heal a cut or bruise on the other hand it would stand to reason that you would think it quite difficult. Interestingly enough we know from ACoS that Fain's stab wound is beyond Cads' talent for healing although that doesn't mean she is bad at it by any means. Can't recall if it's mentioned anywhere else what her talent level is in that department.

 

This snippet is interesting today. A number of different ways this one could go...

Edited by Suttree
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Day 15:

“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

 

I’m guessing that Cadsuane is doing some kind of forensic analysis of Light leader assassination(s), i.e., explaining why some people are dropping dead. I think Team Jordan / Tor is trying to throw us a red herring quote to make us think she’s Black Ajah maybe, but I don’t buy that for a second.

 

 

Could be. Also, the Power is not mentioned in the quote so she might not be talking about killing with the OP.

 

However, it’s actually not easy to stop a man’s heart with the Power. It requires skill in Healing, which is complex. 

That was my first thought too. I don't think Cadsuane ever healed anybody onscreen, did she? I can't recall. She did not try on Rand when Fain wounded him.

I'd dare say blasting his head off with a fireball, classifies as stopping a man's heart :p It's likely Cadsuane putting some Alpha Male type Asha'man in place during an argument.

That's possible but it would still not explain why she thinks that it's easy to stop someone's heart with the OP (if that's what she means).
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Day 15:

“It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

 

I’m guessing that Cadsuane is doing some kind of forensic analysis of Light leader assassination(s), i.e., explaining why some people are dropping dead. I think Team Jordan / Tor is trying to throw us a red herring quote to make us think she’s Black Ajah maybe, but I don’t buy that for a second.

 

Could be. Also, the Power is not mentioned in the quote so she might not be talking about killing with the OP.

 

However, it’s actually not easy to stop a man’s heart with the Power. It requires skill in Healing, which is complex. 

That was my first thought too. I don't think Cadsuane ever healed anybody onscreen, did she? I can't recall. She did not try on Rand when Fain wounded him.

I'd dare say blasting his head off with a fireball, classifies as stopping a man's heart :p It's likely Cadsuane putting some Alpha Male type Asha'man in place during an argument.

That's possible but it would still not explain why she thinks that it's easy to stop someone's heart with the OP (if that's what she means).

 

Sorry, there's a conflation of simplicity and ease here, which are separate. There are multiple ways in which this could be seen as not a mistake.

Firstly and most persuasively IMO, is that it may be a simple weave. That means that pretty much every AS can perform it; what it doesn't mean is that they all get the same result. Healing is perfectly analogous here, most AS learn the same healing weave (albeit, one which isn't so simple), but for some performing that weave only heals bruises etc, while for others it brings people back from the brink of death.

 

Alternatively, it might just be simple for Cadsuane - bear in mind how full of herself she is. As such, the statement is true insofar as she says it.

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Thing is most of the AS dont really think about using the one power as a weapon. Oh they of course use fireballs and lightning strikes. But few really think much more than flashy showy stuff. add in a few small earthquake type eruptions etc. But all of those are blatantly the work of the one power.

 

We know for instance that you can make swords/knives out of air, Siuane showed Ny and Egwene on the trip from Fal Dara to Tar Valon, but her reasons for why they dont do this often is very simple "because its easier to just get a real sword/knife etc." But if you stab someone with a sword of air, they die just as if they had been stabbed by a real sword. 

 

Myself if I wanted to kill with the power and it not look like it, i'd do something similar to that, weave a dagger made of hardened air and send it into the targets heart, job done and it would look like a normal stabbing. 

 

But in general air is not used effectively as a weapon, part of this is due to strength in the power, but our mindset on how physics works is completely different than the people in the WoT universe.

 

For instance I would rather send massive buckshot like shards of air at a target rather than a fireball if I wasnt strong with Fire but was with Air etc. Most Aes Sedai dont play to their strengths in combat, they play to the standard practice. That will change now due to innovations being more sought after, but it shows that in general they dont really look at it too closely.

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