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The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

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Gut reaction is that it is Brigitte and she is speaking to one of those that are called by the Horn that are not currently reborn when it is blown. Though I forget the exact exchanges during "The Graves is No Bar to My Call" in The Great Hunt.

 

Edited grammar.

That is what I was saying in my early post (and others were as well). Now it's up to Herid to explain why this theory is wrong. :wink:

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Egwene to rand possibly at the end when he dies for good or goes to live in TAR?

 

Old friend normally means youve known them for a long time and egwene is one of the few people that has refered to it as dreaming.

 

only other thing maybe egwene to nakmi (verin) not sure what else it could  be.

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

Whoa...

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"And farewell to you, old friend," she said to the air. "Until I dream again."

 

Possibly an Aiel, to a new Aiel HotH?

 

Fits better than most things I think of but still isn't perfect.

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

 

Oh I like this one...

Fortuna is first to pop into my mind, but she doesn't seem the gawking type unless she's lost a bit of her self control.

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

Whoa...

 

Thinking either an accident or a concession to the folks in the Land o'Madmen.

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elayne gets collared

 

do you think its possible that egwene could get collared again or do you think that was already done with messana

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Lots of theories on memory #10 but I still don't see a completely satisfactory one.

 

  • Luckers' idea that it's Lanfear speaking to Rand sarcastically right after she balefires him. This would explain everything including the promise to meet in a dream soon (Rand is supposed to serve her before and after death according to the first Dark prophecy). But it really doesn't sound like her.  There would be at least one mention of Lews Therin in there somewhere if that was Lanfear.
  • Somebody is speaking to a Hero of the Horn shortly after the LB is over and the Heroes go back to TAR. The problem is that the HoH follow the precepts and stay away from visitors once they are in TAR.
  • The only exception is Birgitte. But she doesn't fit either because the person speaking is addressing the air. If Birgitte dies she will leave a body behind and won't just vanish.
  • Elayne speaking to Birgitte in TAR after Birgitte dies. Elayne addressing Birgitte in such a formal manner? No way. And why is she speaking to the air?
  • The speaker is the one dying and it's an Aiel, in which case "until I dream again" means "until I'm reborn again". But why are they addressing air then and not a real person in this case? And why would they expect to meet whoever they are speaking to in their next life? neither makes sense.
  • The action takes place in TAR, whoever the speaker is addressing just died and their body disappeared from TAR which is why the speaker is addressing the air. But again the "until I dream again" part doesn't work whether or not the speaker is an Aiel.
  • a conversation between two characters (Siuan and Moiraine were suggested) after one of them dies normally and "until I dream again" just means an ordinary dream and neither TAR, nor a rebrith. Quite sure that's not it. This is not how things work in WoT.  The phrasing is  wrong  too. If this were the meaning the speaker should have said "I'll be dreaming of you" or something like that or at least clarify what they meant.
 

 

You forgot a less bloody option:

  • nobody dies: it is the thought of one person in TAR (I'd guess Egwene), left behind after a crucial conversation with another person who just stepped out of TAR or at least moved place. The latter might be one of the aiel wise ones, Elayne, ...

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Lots of theories on memory #10 but I still don't see a completely satisfactory one.

  • Luckers' idea that it's Lanfear speaking to Rand sarcastically right after she balefires him. This would explain everything including the promise to meet in a dream soon (Rand is supposed to serve her before and after death according to the first Dark prophecy). But it really doesn't sound like her.  There would be at least one mention of Lews Therin in there somewhere if that was Lanfear.
  • Somebody is speaking to a Hero of the Horn shortly after the LB is over and the Heroes go back to TAR. The problem is that the HoH follow the precepts and stay away from visitors once they are in TAR.
  • The only exception is Birgitte. But she doesn't fit either because the person speaking is addressing the air. If Birgitte dies she will leave a body behind and won't just vanish.
  • Elayne speaking to Birgitte in TAR after Birgitte dies. Elayne addressing Birgitte in such a formal manner? No way. And why is she speaking to the air?
  • The speaker is the one dying and it's an Aiel, in which case "until I dream again" means "until I'm reborn again". But why are they addressing air then and not a real person in this case? And why would they expect to meet whoever they are speaking to in their next life? neither makes sense.
  • The action takes place in TAR, whoever the speaker is addressing just died and their body disappeared from TAR which is why the speaker is addressing the air. But again the "until I dream again" part doesn't work whether or not the speaker is an Aiel.
  • a conversation between two characters (Siuan and Moiraine were suggested) after one of them dies normally and "until I dream again" just means an ordinary dream and neither TAR, nor a rebrith. Quite sure that's not it. This is not how things work in WoT.  The phrasing is  wrong  too. If this were the meaning the speaker should have said "I'll be dreaming of you" or something like that or at least clarify what they meant.
 

 

 

Maybe it's just me being very focussed on all things that concern the Sea Folk of late, but I got another thought you can add to that list, herid.

 

We've only seen them once and it was in a short scene where RJ knew it's content would be easily forgotten, because of the awesomeness around it:

I'm thinking it could very well be an Amayar Guide, that in death is saying goodbye to the very air itself.

 

From that little scene in WH, we know the Amayar follow the Water Way. It's a doctrine of peace, much like the Way of the Leaf, but given it's name -Water Way- perhaps more centered on the elements. We see in that one scene we have, that Timna (the Guide for the Sea Folk) even when she's just strolling lost in thought, she's very aware of the air around her;

"Strolling lost in thought, Timna barely saw the fallow fields that covered all the hillsides but one around her. Tremalking was a large island, and this far from the sea, the wind carried no hint of salt, yet it was the Atha’an Miere that troubled her...

Perhaps the Amayar Guides use what the elements, like water and wind, tell them, to Guide the Sea Folk. Like how Nynaeve can 'Listen to the Wind' and advises Rand on occasion on what she feels.

 

We also know through that same scene, that the Amayar consider their lives are lived in an Illusion. Again, as with the Water Way / Way of the Leaf similarities, this looks similar to how the Aiel consider their lives a Dream from wich they will wake on death.

 

I also think -considering my theory on Demandreds location with the Sea Folk- we might have a little more to learn on the Atha'an Miere and their relationship with the Amayar yet, considering it's the Amayar that through their Guides 'protect the Sea Folk from themselves'. (again, per Timna's PoV in WH).

Considering what we've read in KoD about how the mass suicide of the Amayar affected the Sea Folk Twelve and their Mistress of the Ships to such an extend, they thought it news that would 'make and anchor weep', I'm hoping this Memory#10 is a flashback that gives us readers more information about what impact the Amayar Mass suicide will have on the Sea Folk. Or that it's actually a surviving Amayar Guide, that waited with suicide with a message for the Sea Folk -a tiny speck of hope for the Sea Folk, so to speak- that will change their views at that point in the story.

 

"And farewell to you, old friend," she said to the air. "Until I dream again."

 

 

*crosses fingers, thinking (and hoping) it's an Amayar Guide flashback*

Edited by Mik

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#10
There is a full stop rather than a comma between the two parts of speech, so they can refer to two different subjects.
How about an Aiel, who is about to do something fairly suicidal, saying goodbye to an old friend (who is elsewhere and/or dead)
The "Until I dream again" part is her saying goodbye to her current 'dream' and nothing to do with the friend.
#11
A gawking Seanchan woman - can not imagine it being Tuon or Selucia.
Probably someone who doesn't know about Mat's medallion, or they wouldn't be so shocked at the idea of Mat 'dealing with' marath'damane
And, it can't be someone too subordinate, or they wouldn't address him with a "One more thing".
The only name that comes to mind at the moment is Tylee, but would she gawk?

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

Whoa...

 

Thinking either an accident or a concession to the folks in the Land o'Madmen.

 

 

 

:D

 

Gawked doesn't sound like Fortuona or Selucia the two most likely candidated to be speaking of Mat about marath'damane. Tylee maybe? [to me it doesn't sound like something Tylee would say either, but I could see Brandon putting the word in her mouth more easily than I could see him putting it in Fortuona or Selucia]. So, Tylee, now a military subordinate of the Prince of the Ravens working with him on something--something that sees them in potential opposition with a group of marath'damane that Mat decides to reason with rather than plan on militarily.

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Memory #11: I think the marath'damane to which is referred in the quote, are the Aiel in the Blight (forgot their name).

 

As for memory #10: I think the person says goodbye to life itself. Referring to life as an 'old friend' and speaking to life by speaking to the air (which is rather essential to live).

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Memory #11: I think the marath'damane to which is referred in the quote, are the Aiel in the Blight (forgot their name).

 

As for memory #10: I think the person says goodbye to life itself. Referring to life as an 'old friend' and speaking to life by speaking to the air (which is rather essential to live).

Can't be the Aiel in the Blight, because they're male.  Marath'damane is a female-specific term for channelers.  Male channelers are  Tsorov'ande DoonBlack-Souled Tempests.  It's a group of female channelers.

 

Right now, Mat is planning to go talk to Fortuona and is most likely going to try where Rand failed for a truce / alliance for the Last Battle.  Mat doesn't know that Fortuona has already given the order for an imminent attack on the White Tower.  So, let's assume Mat talks her out of attacking the White Tower.  She still wouldn't trust them, and Mat does not speak on their behalf.  At best, Mat is speaking for Rand.  Thus, Fortuona would want some assurances that her not attacking the White Tower would not simply give them time to attack her.

 

 

 

"Trust me Tuon, Rand will keep his word.  He will bow to you, fulfilling your Prophecy, but in return you must obey him until we win the Last Battle.  Rand is bloody pursuing an alliance with those Aes Sedai too, and it would hardly be a good start to an alliance if you bloody attack him after shaking hands."  Mat thought he was finally getting through to her.

"Perhaps... but I will not cede control of my armies to a foreign power, even the Dragon Reborn." Tuon drawled.

"Fine.  I'll be in charge, but we fight with Rand, not against him."

"One more thing, the marath'damane . . ."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

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memory #11 Looks like Mat has turned coat and joined the Seanchan?!  Can't imagine what would provoke that unless Tuon took him to visit the Crytal Throne or something. Is this related to Sanderson's comment

 

 

Brandon Sanderson (28 September 2011)
An important moment in A Memory of Light centers on one character turning to another and asking, "How much do you trust Mat Cauthon?" How much indeed.

 

 

I don't think Mat is addressing Tuon, Selucia or Tylee. None of them would gawk. Sounds like maybe one of the sul'dam like Falendre, or just some random Seanchan military officer accompanying Mat (but not Tylee).

 

It's also strange that Mat refers to the opposition as channelers rather than Aes Sedai. I don't recall him ever doing that. Perhaps it's not Aes Sedai he is facing? Not sure who else it could be. Perhaps the Aiel Wise ones or the Windfinders. Could be Black Ajah but I think there are very few of them left.

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I think it's intentionally misleading. Mat wouldn't join the Seanchan, he would eat his hat before fighting and collaring non-DF channelers. 

 

Probably referring to Dreadlords or a non-battle situation. Like a group of Aiel Wise ones, or Windfinders, or Kinsowmen (any group), but most likely Aiel considering all things, refusing to help the Seanchan in an attack or defence, so Mat says he will sort them out ala.. Sea Folk bargain 

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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There seem to be some folks that are wishing Mat to act in certain way, and those wishes are based upon their own prejudices or their vision of Mat as a character.

 

I agree with Sentinel and others - the discussion is with Tuon (BTW, very good theoretical passage Sentinel).

 

Mat would not leash a channeller.  He would declare to Tuon that he intends to handle them however.  In my interpretation, this means that he intends to go to Egwene.  And Herid, the person who I'd guess asks, "How much do you trust Mat Cauthon?" is almost certainly one of Egwene's advisors, or someone from the Hall.  The Seanchan, don't forget, call him Matrim.

 

And so there will be tension, I'd guess, based upon Mat's promise to Tuon that he will handle the channellers on Tuon's behalf.  Egwene, and especially Elayne and Nynaeve trust that Mat is a true-friend-in-need and loyal... but they are not going to easily understand his relationship to Tuon.  Though he had little choice, he's made things worse by hiding his marriage from Elayne.  Had he spoken frankly of the marriage, Elayne would have found it harder to trust his motives through the negotiations.

 

Another odd dynamic added to the mix might be Nynaeve's protective nature.  She would have little to go on except Tuon's tactical insults.  But she might assume, based upon those insults, that Mat is crazy to return to Ebou Dar.  She would try to prevent him, I'd think.

 

And then later, knowing that he commands Seanchan, whatever is she supposed to think???

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 And Herid, the person who I'd guess asks, "How much do you trust Mat Cauthon?" is almost certainly one of Egwene's advisors, or someone from the Hall.  The Seanchan, don't forget, call him Matrim.

 

I wasn't suggesting that it's the Seanchan saying this. I meant that it could be a reaction by somebody else to Mat possibly switching sides. Not Aes Sedai with Egwene though. Excepting Nyn, Elayne and Egwene herself, they all call him Matrim too. There is also a possibility that BS simply shortened Mat's name in that twitter quote. He is not obligated to use precise quotes and it's twitter after all. That would make all that Mat vs. Matrim discussion moot.

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Almost everyone calls him Matrim now.  I think there was a WoT-wide announcement after KoD sometime.

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From the latest Mat quote, he seems to be in charge. And most likely it is the Seanchan armies in Randland. He could be addressing anyone from Tylee to the der'sul'dam in charge of the damane in his armies. And most likely he is trying to persuade them against going up against a group from the WT.

 

In Egwene's dream of the Seanchan, 2 Ravens (2 attacks) are seen. And the WT sways and seems to scatter into several groups (which didn't happen in the first attack).

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@Sid lol, that's true.  A number of people like Joline and Teslyn switched from Mat to Matrim post KoD. Elayne and Birgitte still mostly call him Mat though even if  Elayne does slip to Matrim a few times.

 

@Mik I don't recall flashbacks used anywhere in WoT after the Hyam Kinch scene in tEoTW which apparently didn't go down well with the fans. Don't see it happening in AMOL. Screen time is highly valuable and Amayar flashbacks are not needed by the plot.

 

 

Gut reaction is that it is Brigitte and she is speaking to one of those that are called by the Horn that are not currently reborn when it is blown. Though I forget the exact exchanges during "The Graves is No Bar to My Call" in The Great Hunt.

Edited grammar.

That is what I was saying in my early post (and others were as well). Now it's up to Herid to explain why this theory is wrong. :wink:

 

 

Happy to oblige :) Birgitte is not a dreamwalker. She would not be expecting to meet any HoH when she goes to sleep. She never has, apparently, so far as we know. And they would still keep the precepts and not contact her if she did show up in TAR somehow without dying. She makes one brief and rather eventful visit in TFOH when she almost gest killed by Moggy and none of the HoH help out.

 

 
Lots of theories on memory #10 but I still don't see a completely satisfactory one.

  • Luckers' idea that it's Lanfear speaking to Rand sarcastically right after she balefires him. This would explain everything including the promise to meet in a dream soon (Rand is supposed to serve her before and after death according to the first Dark prophecy). But it really doesn't sound like her.  There would be at least one mention of Lews Therin in there somewhere if that was Lanfear.
  • Somebody is speaking to a Hero of the Horn shortly after the LB is over and the Heroes go back to TAR. The problem is that the HoH follow the precepts and stay away from visitors once they are in TAR.
  • The only exception is Birgitte. But she doesn't fit either because the person speaking is addressing the air. If Birgitte dies she will leave a body behind and won't just vanish.
  • Elayne speaking to Birgitte in TAR after Birgitte dies. Elayne addressing Birgitte in such a formal manner? No way. And why is she speaking to the air?
  • The speaker is the one dying and it's an Aiel, in which case "until I dream again" means "until I'm reborn again". But why are they addressing air then and not a real person in this case? And why would they expect to meet whoever they are speaking to in their next life? neither makes sense.
  • The action takes place in TAR, whoever the speaker is addressing just died and their body disappeared from TAR which is why the speaker is addressing the air. But again the "until I dream again" part doesn't work whether or not the speaker is an Aiel.
  • a conversation between two characters (Siuan and Moiraine were suggested) after one of them dies normally and "until I dream again" just means an ordinary dream and neither TAR, nor a rebrith. Quite sure that's not it. This is not how things work in WoT.  The phrasing is  wrong  too. If this were the meaning the speaker should have said "I'll be dreaming of you" or something like that or at least clarify what they meant.
 

 


You forgot a less bloody option:
  • nobody dies: it is the thought of one person in TAR (I'd guess Egwene), left behind after a crucial conversation with another person who just stepped out of TAR or at least moved place. The latter might be one of the aiel wise ones, Elayne, ...

 

ok, that's possible I suppose but it still doesn't feel quite right.  The way it's phrased sounds like a final goodbye, rather than a normal one. And addressing the air is also strange. When people part normally in TAR they usually say goodbye in person. It would be kind of rude otherwise.

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Re: Memory 11

 

Early books are a treasure trove of foreshadowing because RJ didn't intend this to be a 14 book series. That being said, Mat switching sides is almost inevitable to me as evidenced by his portal stone technicolor experience. Almost as inevitable as "I have won again Lews Therin". I would point to that as evidence of Mat joining the Seanchan side, with a number of caveats of course.

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So, I just got the newest one, are they gonna be sending them at midnight (ET) from now on?

 

"One more thing, the marath'damane..."

"I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said.

She gawked at him as if he were insane.

 

'she' is probably Lieutenant-General Tylee Khirgan. unlike some other high ranking seanchan, tylee is capable of gawking, and really has no idea that mat is immune to direct channeling, obviously making mat insane. i'd imagine this is part of some war council, either an attack or defense. on who, what or where is up in the air though

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