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Who is the Dragon?


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A few references to the Dragon in the AoL make me wonder who/what the Dragon was in the previous age.

  • Demandred could have been named the Dragon if it wasn't for LTT. This suggests that it is a title granted to certain people
  • The Aiel were known as the People of the Dragon. The entire race used to only serve the Dragon. I can't recall if it is stated the Dragon or LTT specifically was served. This service was before the War of Power which (we know from Rand's visions in Rhuidean), so the title existed before the war broke out. For an entire race to be known as the People of the Dragon it would have to be a service for more than one lifetime
  • The Forsaken in their thoughts seem to think of LTT's current incarnation as the Dragon. This suggests either the title was created and made famous by LTT and therefore attributed to his reincarnation. Or it could mean that the title is granted for life. A reincarnated LTT would inherit the title in the Forsaken's minds. If this is the case then the title of Dragon is something very special for it to be granted such importance.

I think the title has something to do with the Aiel Covenant. In the AoL the Dragon guided the Aiel to serve mankind. Some time just before the Bore was made LTT gave up this authority and allowed the Aiel to serve other Aes Sedai. This act enhanced his fame and position as the greatest man of the age.

 

Thoughts? Are there quotes from Q&A where RJ answered this question?

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A few references to the Dragon in the AoL make me wonder who/what the Dragon was in the previous age.

  • Demandred could have been named the Dragon if it wasn't for LTT. This suggests that it is a title granted to certain people
  • The Aiel were known as the People of the Dragon. The entire race used to only serve the Dragon. I can't recall if it is stated the Dragon or LTT specifically was served. This service was before the War of Power which (we know from Rand's visions in Rhuidean), so the title existed before the war broke out. For an entire race to be known as the People of the Dragon it would have to be a service for more than one lifetime
  • The Forsaken in their thoughts seem to think of LTT's current incarnation as the Dragon. This suggests either the title was created and made famous by LTT and therefore attributed to his reincarnation. Or it could mean that the title is granted for life. A reincarnated LTT would inherit the title in the Forsaken's minds. If this is the case then the title of Dragon is something very special for it to be granted such importance.

I think the title has something to do with the Aiel Covenant. In the AoL the Dragon guided the Aiel to serve mankind. Some time just before the Bore was made LTT gave up this authority and allowed the Aiel to serve other Aes Sedai. This act enhanced his fame and position as the greatest man of the age.

 

Thoughts? Are there quotes from Q&A where RJ answered this question?

 

Hmmm... it could be that it went on for several Aiel generations, but LTT lived for about 400 years. The US isn't even 400 years old. It could be that they were only there because of him, but it seems weird that they would create such a title, with such a thing as the Aiel, for no good reason. It is a pretty good question, though. He was already the Tamyrlin or whatever, so it doesn't seem like the Dragon would have been a leader of AS. I can't think of any other purpose for the title, though.

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The Tamyrlin isn't what most people think it is, most think it means the leader of the AS, however the only reference we get of the Tamyrlin is the ring of the Tamyrlin iirc. that could just be a special ring that LTT has, and have nothing to do with any special titles.

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From TSR, emphasis mine:

 

“Singing,” Someshta said. “Was there singing? So much is gone. The Aes Sedai say some will return. You are a Child of the Dragon, are you not?”

 

Jonai winced. That name had caused trouble, no less for not being true. But how many citizens now believed the Da’shain Aiel had once served the Dragon and no other Aes Sedai?

Edited by BenevolentCow
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The Dragon was the name given to Lews Therin Telamon. The leader of the Forces of Light against the Shadow in the War of Power.

 

They called the Aiel the People of the Dragon (wrongly, as it is pointed out by Cow) because of the assumption they served Lews Therin specifically, not Aes Sedai in general.

 

The "Dragon Soul" is also used for Rand's soul, the champion of Light that fights the DO in the second and third ages respectively. However, this is a term only used by RJ and Brandon outside of the books. It is likely an easy way to refer to Rand/LTT.

 

In terms of the AoL, it was only a title. Brandon said Demandred could never have been the Dragon. Both he and Graendal are correct. Technically, if Lews Therin died untimely before the War, Demandred, as the close second, would have been granted the title of Dragon.

 

However, what Brandon is referring to is that Demandred could never have become the one that is "chosen" to fight the Dark One like Lews Therin and Rand.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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It was cetainly a fearful title, if this is anything to go by:

 

"And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon."
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I have always understood it that the "Dragon" and the "Dragon Reborn" are the ony titles that are maintained age after age. So many other facts and events get blurred and faded throughout history, but the Dragon lives on. Since the events are mostly cyclical (peace, bore, war, seal, seals weaken, reseal, etc), there will always be a Dragon to seal the bore, and there will always be a Dragon Reborn to make the prison whole.

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I have always understood it that the "Dragon" and the "Dragon Reborn" are the ony titles that are maintained age after age. So many other facts and events get blurred and faded throughout history, but the Dragon lives on. Since the events are mostly cyclical (peace, bore, war, seal, seals weaken, reseal, etc), there will always be a Dragon to seal the bore, and there will always be a Dragon Reborn to make the prison whole.

 

It is just another name that get's blurred like all the rest. Like Rand al'Thor, obviously Thor and "Arthur"

 

Dragon is distorted with Pendragon (the Arthur name).

 

Rand al'Thor the Dragon = Arthur Pendragon. (this also has some similarities with Artur Paendrag "Hawkwing") but RJ said that Rand was an Arthur figure, and we have Callandor/Excalibur and all that.

 

And of course Dragon obviously inspires the mythology of Dragons, like the one depicted on the flag.

 

It may be that every turning the title "Dragon" pops up, but it does get distorted like all of the rest of it.

 

The names are unimportant. There will always be the LTT and the Rand to seal the bore, but they may not necessarily be called Dragon again. They could be, but they do not have to be. The title is unimportant, it is the soul and it's power which make the Champion.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Ishamael said he embraced his title while LTT hated his so...

 

Ya but that's betrayer of hope and kinslayer, not dragon right?

No, it's Dragon. But he doesn't really say LTT hated it, more like he just didn't care for it much.

 

Yes, Betrayer of Hope. So have men named me, just as they named you Dragon, but unlike you I embrace the name.
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LTT rants in Rand's head at one point, "I am the Lord of the Morning. I was the Prince of the Dawn.", but he never once complained about Rand claiming to be the Dragon. Maybe the title Dragon was only given to him during the War of Power.

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Doesn't the "Dragon" and "Dragon Reborn" also specifically refer to a male? I heard that Jordan's response to a question of whether or not a turning of the wheel ever had a female Dragon Reborn he responded that while the Champion of the Light may be female, she would not be referred to as the Dragon Reborn. I might be misremembering things, though.

Edited by TNine
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The Dragon is a name of this turning of the Wheel, I am sure. Languages change. Next time around, the languages used would be entirely different, and so "Dragon" would have no meaning. Also, it is assumed that people in Randland are not speaking English, it is just being conveniently translated through the magic of Fantasy Fiction. "Dragon" is just a nice English approximation.

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Ishamael said he embraced his title while LTT hated his so...

 

Ya but that's betrayer of hope and kinslayer, not dragon right?

No, it's Dragon. But he doesn't really say LTT hated it, more like he just didn't care for it much.

 

Yes, Betrayer of Hope. So have men named me, just as they named you Dragon, but unlike you I embrace the name.

 

Ah, good quote

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The Dragon is a name of this turning of the Wheel, I am sure. Languages change. Next time around, the languages used would be entirely different, and so "Dragon" would have no meaning. Also, it is assumed that people in Randland are not speaking English, it is just being conveniently translated through the magic of Fantasy Fiction. "Dragon" is just a nice English approximation.

 

In TDR56, Rhuarc displays his clan chief markings:

 

He pushed back the sleeves of his coat and shirt together to reveal his left forearm, the skin much paler than that of his hands and face. Etched into the skin as if part of it, wrapped twice around, marched the same gold-and-scarlet form as rippled on the banner above the Stone.

..

"The Aiel are the People of the Dragon." Moiraine spoke quietly.

 

The word 'dragon' in Randlandese is associated with this (apparently) mythical and unreal creature, tattooed into Aiel clan chiefs' arms by the Rhuidean ter'angreal, and displayed on the banner. As such, the English is a pretty good approximation!

 

The symbol itself was probably chosen by Aes Sedai when the Rhuidean device was set up, and the banner was to tie the two together. They could have chosen any creature: a lion, an eagle, whatever. But even in the real world a 'dragon' is an awe-inspiring beast.

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Doesn't the "Dragon" and "Dragon Reborn" also specifically refer to a male? I heard that Jordan's response to a question of whether or not a turning of the wheel ever had a female Dragon Reborn he responded that while the Champion of the Light may be female, she would not be referred to as the Dragon Reborn. I might be misremembering things, though.

 

When he said that he was referring specifically to Rand's soul. Dragon is merely a title from the AoL.

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