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How to seal a bore.

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Okay, we know that the bore will have to be sealed before the 3rd age comes again, and I believe that RJ plans to seal the bore within the series, IE aMoL. So, if you believe as I do, then how does the bore get fixed so that 2nd agers don't drill a bore through a patch?


RJ has said that he has known the endings of the books since the beggining, so I went back to the beggining to try and find some clues. At the end to the prolouge of TEotW, there are two writings from fourth age writers telling us events that occur during the time around the last battle. I will quote from the one I belive to be pertinent.


... Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs.


Okay, it seems pretty obvious that the Prince of the Morning is a reference to Rand. Singing to the land seems to be a reference to the Aiel singing ceremony. And I don't have the slightest clue wtf "valleys giving forth lambs," mean.


This passage seems to suggest that Rand will sing the aiel growing song before the last battle. To what purpose would he do this? Yes the world is likely to be wracked with famine, but singing a few fields worth of crops won't alieviate this. Maybe he would need some help with this singing.


Do we even know if Rand has "The Voice?" Does he know "The Song?" There seems to be some evidence to suggest this. The first example is Rand's strange reaction to Loial's treesinging. Secondly, we know from Rand's trip through the Rhuidean columns that he at least is descended from someone who had "The Voice." From that same trip, Rand also learned, "The Song."


Who would help Rand sing the song? The obvious choice would be the Tuathan, who are all currently headed for Ebou Dar, in seanchan territory. Does this fact make it any more likely that the tuathan will learn the song than 2 thousand years of wandering has? Possibly. We know from TGH that people with the voice, can have a reaction to ogier song. We also know that the Tuathan have tried learning Ogier songs, but have still failed to learn The Song. This would seem to either indicate that Rand is a special case, or that none of the tuathan that have listened to treesinging has had The Voice.


Of the two it seems more likely to me that Rand is a special case, and that treesinging was enough like the ogier part in The Song to spark some hereditary memory. However it is possible that when the tuathan broke from the aiel they only took people with them without the genetic predisposition for The Voice. It would seem a cruel twist of fate that only those who could not sing The Song would be looking for it, but then again when has that stopped RJ? In either case it seems that the songs that the Ogier on this side of the ocean sing are not enough to help the tuathan find The Song. We do not know however, what songs the Seanchan ogier may or may not know. It is possible that the "Gardener" nickname given to them is indicative of them knowing some part of the growing song from the AoL. If this is the case, it might be that it is similar enough to The Song that the Tuathan could learn the song from them.


Another likely group to learn The Song from Rand is the Aiel. Certainley they have the genetic predisposition to posess The Voice. The fact that none have exhibited this talent before can be explained easily by remembering that adult aiel only sing funereal dirges. Since a song about death is about the furthest thing from a growing song, it is possible that many many aiel possess The Voice, but do not know it. It is this fact, that the Aiel don't sing, that makes me think that it is very likely that they will. Additionally, if you are of the opinion that the treesinging ability and the ogier song are one and the same, the reason why the aiel have not noticed something weird from Ogier treesinging is also easily explained. There is a severe shortage of trees in the waste to be sung, and thus a severe lack of ogier to sing them. Simply there have been no instances when an aiel with The Voice, an ogier treesinger, and a tree have been in the same place since the breaking.


Another likely ally in this singing is Loial. From Rand's trip through the Rhuidean columns we know that not only do Ogier play a part in The Song, but that they begin it. Since we already have proof that Loial has the ability to affect Rand with his singing, it seems that at least Loial has the ogier version of The Voice. As noted above, the ogier Voice may or may not be the same as having the treesinging ability. In KoD Loial promises Rand he will be at the last battle with him, and as we know there is no such thing as an ogier oathbreaker. Considering that Loial has promised to be with Rand, and that he possesses the ability to effect Rand, it is a pretty sure thing that Loial will be present at this singing.


So, we have a scenario where Rand and Loial are singing The Song, possibly with the help of the Tuathan and/or the Aiel, but to what purpose? It could be that they are singing at the last battle to grow crops to feed the starving people of the world. While laudable, I do not see it being beneficial to Rand's goal of winning and surviving the last battle. Starvation is not a quick death, nor a quick recovery. If Randlanders are not starving and dying in numbers great enough to effect the Last Battle, then Rand would have other priorities, and if they were starving and dying that quickly, their recovery time would take longer than would be useful. What purpose would Rand have in singing the song, as the Fourth age writer in TEotW relates he will?


The simple answer, to grow the bore shut.

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good ideas!! - the main thing I disagree with is that it will be done before the last battle.


I think this is part of the re-creation of the world after the last battle, reviving the land, bring peace, etc..

The lambs part sound quite like prophesies form the bible, lion and lamb playing together... the age of 1000 year peace, which I think is also the model for the age of legends, after the 1000 year peace, Satan is freed and the last battle comes, then heaven starts - well since RJ mixes all kind of believes - things just start from the beginning again.


Last but not least the prince of the morning could be Rand, is he been called that yet anywhere?

Again the biblical parallel is actually Lucifer or Satan, shaitan - but then the dragon is also a picture used for the bad side in Revelations (last book of the bible) like I said RJ likes to use different pictures and create a new story - one of the things I love most about WOT, and why I still hope that Rand will not die and get up after three days - but that is a different story.


I really like the part of Rand, Loial and the Aiel, Tuathan finding the song and do this singing - to rebuild the land.

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Those two passages at the end on the prolouge I assumed was a description of the Breaking of the World after the AoL.


The first one was talking about how much liveing in that time sucked, and they blamed LTT for it.


The second one was talking about how the proficies were able to give hope to the people that this would end.


Remember in tSR, when Rand was viewing the past through his ancestors and the guy walked in on the AS meeting. One of the women had a fortelling (I assumed it was when teh cycle was first said) and another was asking when it would happen.


I thought the belief at the time was the Dragon's rebirth would bring an end to the breaking. At that time it seemed to have been going on for a while but was now getting REALLY bad (of course it was going to get much worse) and it wasn't until the women learned more about the breaking that they relized the breaking would end without him. But before their technology failed they told the citizens what would end the breaking.


So when things were really getting bad, and the people have heard nothing for years, and the AS were starting to crack under the pressure and their "battery girls" had to start taking up the fight themselves not knowing what their teachers knew; the living did start to envy the dead. So they were hoping for it all to end by the Dragon being reborn so the land would settle down, and they could grow crops.

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In order for it to happen after the LB doesn't that mean that Rand would have to survive?


All indications seem to point to 1 of 2 fates for Rand post LB. 1. He dies. 2. He fakes his death and fades into anonymity w/ his three wives. The 4th age writer seems to take this singing for granted as an occurrence that happened. If it occurs post Tarmon Gaidon wouldn't that make Rand famous all over again? How's Logain supposed to step up, if Rand's still kicking around as the Dragon Reborn? Why would the last battle be done, but the world not be done with battle, if Rand is there to take every faction in hand and make them sort it out?


I get the feeling that Rand will not play any major part in the world post LB.

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Why couldn't it happen during the last battle, instead of before or after? All the armies are fighting around Randland, while Rand and select others are resealing the Bore.

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I said it elsewhere and I'll say it again no doubt.


Imo the bore will not be resealed. The entire prison will be remade as new. Like it was before it was bored the first time around.


If all ages are to come again they have to get back to this stage at some point. it'd be a bit shit if it's left to our imagination and not told within the span of the books.

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Sorry Candyman, I wasn't clear enough, by seal I did mean that the thinness in the pattern that is the bore would be grown back, good as new.


Zardi, I think that you are exactly right. I did not mean to imply that I thought it would take place before TG, I meant that this would be the culmination of TG. Especially if you take the Aiel out of the fighting then it would make for a bloody scenario for Randlanders other military forces. Of course if the aiel were supposed to stand around shayol Ghul and sing to the DO, it would be a pretty bloody affair for them as well. You might even say that only a remnant of a remnant would survive such a scenario. It would also seem to fulfill the prophecy about Rand breaking them with the sword of peace and slaying them with the leaf. He's already broken them, but has yet to slay the aiel in any great numbers.

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  • 1 month later...

Who has been slain? There's been lots of fighting with the Shaido, by Aiel that weren't taken by the bleakness. There have been lots of Aiel who have left to put on white, but I haven't seen any aiel slain, unless you mean the Aiel as a whole.


Even if that is your meaning, I would hardly characterize the current state of the Aiel as "slain."

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Um ... there was fighting in the Bowl at Al'cair Dal immediately after he revealed the truth.


The open fighting with the Shaido began after Rand revealed the truth, and many Aiel of other clans joined them because of what Rand said.


The Bleakness itself has caused some Aiel to starve themselves to death or run off and die of exposure.


The identity of the Aiel has been destroyed, and can never really be reclaimed. They discovered that their very name is a lie. They did not keep what they had been "Dedicated" to.


And finally, revealing the truth is what caused the rest of the Aiel to follow Rand. Rand is going to get alot more Aiel killed. I mean a WHOLE lot. A Memory of Light is going to be very, very bad for the Aiel.

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"When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

TGH Ch28



"One of the old prophecies says that if ever we fail the Aes Sedai again, they will slay us."

TGH Ch. 28


"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

TSR Ch 34


He "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf." He "shall bind the nine moons to serve him." He will heal "wounds of madness and cutting of hope." What chains has he broken, and who put into chains?

TDR Ch 6


The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,

dances the sword in dreams and mist,

chains the Shadowsworn to his will,

from the city, lost and forsaken,

leads the spears to war once more,

breaks the spears and makes them see,

truth long hidden in the ancient dream."

TSR Ch 6



These are the quotes I found that relate this to prophecy. I misspoke when I referenced the slaying with the leaf prophecy earlier, but I believe that I am still right. Rand has slain them, but has yet to destroy the Aiel.



When I went to look at the relevant prophecies, I became even more convinced that this is how RJ intends to seal the bore. If you recall the story of the Aiel who sang to the insane male aes sedai until he had killed every last one of them, it seems like a foreshadowing.


"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."


TSR Ch 3


The first prophecy that I qouted, tells us that when the trollocs come out of the blight, the Aiel will take back their places of old. We know that their places of old, were places of peaceful servitude to the Aes Sedai. Further we know that their places were as seed singers. From prophecy we know that the Aiel will return to the way of the leaf, and will likely return to singing.


From prophecy we know that Rand will pour out the blood of the Aiel like water on sand. Again this is remminiscent of the story of the Daishan Aiel singing themselves into a meatgrinder. This is a clear reference to the near complete destruction of the aiel.


Further we know that it is the blood of the dragon that will "wash away" the shadow. The aiel are the blood of the Dragon. It is clear from Rand's trip to Rhuidean that he is directly decsended from the leaders of the Aiel in the AoL.


Blood of our blood mixed with the old blood, raised by an ancient blood not ours

TDR Ch 39


The Aiel will reclaim their old places as seed singers and followers of the way of the leaf. Aiel are the blood of the dragon. The dragon will pour out his blood like water onto the rocks of Shayol Ghul to wash away the shadow.

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