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A Reunion Unconsidered at FOM


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So I've just started my reread of the series and I always start with New Spring. Finishing it has left me with a lingering question. We can assume that Moiraine Sedai will be heading straight for the gathering that is going to happen at FOM because she has info for Rand. Now I'm thinking that Rand will have his usual group with him including his new Aes Sedai advisor our still not dead Green Cadsuane. For those who haven't read NS in awhile, Cad was not very happy with Moiraine's actions not to mention that Moiraine was still unsure of Cad's true Ajah. I think there will be some interesting sparks fly there.

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Thats right...Cadsuane did say that she would spank Moiraine if she was not complaint with her wishes...I believe the phrase was "make her weep as she did for those mice". Will Cadsuane spank Moiraine on the Fields of Merrillor? Will Moiraine tell her to screw off? I guess we will have to wait to find out. But you are correct, it may be interesting...if they remember what they said.

 

(Will the three oaths allow Moiraine NOT to be spanked? If Cadsuane does not spank her, then Cadsuane will not have followed through on what she said, which would make her words a lie, at least by omission....)

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I could just see it now.

 

Cads pov with her just remembering for the first time in 15 years what she had said, so she wraps her up with air and spanks her on the spot. Rand of course does nothing because he figures it's private business.

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I would be severely disappointed in the character of Cadsuane if she didn't show respect to Moiraine and treat her as an equal. Moiraine has done AT THE VERY LEAST as much as Cads has in Rand's growth, and certainly dedicated more time towards the survival of the world. She discovered Rand AND the other boys, she set Rand on the path to his destiny, she got out of the way when it was necessary; her courage alone in everything is amazing. It will be interesting to see but if Cads is an ass during it I won't like it one bit.

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The reunion I'm expecting not to see but hope to see the most is Min and Egwene.

 

Min basically kept Egwene sane during her Seanchan imprisonment, and then Min left with Rand and Moiraine while Egwene returned to the Tower. Min is also, unbeknownst to Egwene, the one who first articulated the "break the Seals" plan straight out. And finally, Min is literally the only one of Egwene's friends that is just a friend, not a politial figure in of herself or a member of Egwene's organization. Even with Aviendha, Egwene has to deal with her on some level as a representative from a different political group.

 

I just think it could be fascinating, a chance to see who Egwene is right now when she's not being the Amyrlin Seat.

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(Will the three oaths allow Moiraine NOT to be spanked? If Cadsuane does not spank her, then Cadsuane will not have followed through on what she said, which would make her words a lie, at least by omission....)

 

It wouldn't be a lie. It would be a change in position. Aes Sedai are allowed to change their mind; otherwise the Grey Ajah would be screwed into holding only to their original offers.

 

I think both characters have grown immensely since their time in NS, Moiraine especially. I doubt either would hold any animosity towards each other. More likely, they'll have a great deal of respect for each other due to both being devoted to the same task of saving Rand. I doubt they'll be warm and fuzzy to each other (no one would ever accuse either of being warm and fuzzy, even Lan or Thom) but I think it should be amicable and an interesting trading of notes.

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Birgitte doesn't remember anything prior to the forming of the White Tower, but she should remember her time with the Dragon Soul in TAR from between then and Rand's birth.

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Birgitte doesn't remember anything prior to the forming of the White Tower, but she should remember her time with the Dragon Soul in TAR from between then and Rand's birth.

 

Not necessarily, her memories are quickly fading as revealed in ToM-22.

Edited by Finnssss
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Birgitte doesn't remember anything prior to the forming of the White Tower, but she should remember her time with the Dragon Soul in TAR from between then and Rand's birth.

 

Not necessarily, her memories are quickly fading as revealed in ToM-22.

 

But LTT would probably remember her would he not?

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I could just see it now.

 

Cads pov with her just remembering for the first time in 15 years what she had said, so she wraps her up with air and spanks her on the spot. Rand of course does nothing because he figures it's private business.

 

Rand will be momentarily puzzled by it, but then just shake his head in exasperation and finally reconcile with himself the sad fact that he will just never understand women in the keen way Perrin and Mat do.

 

 

Fish

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Birgitte doesn't remember anything prior to the forming of the White Tower, but she should remember her time with the Dragon Soul in TAR from between then and Rand's birth.

 

Not necessarily, her memories are quickly fading as revealed in ToM-22.

 

But LTT would probably remember her would he not?

 

I'm wondering whether he remember his time in Tar along with his past lives? Interesting to think about...

Edited by Suttree
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He will certainly recognize her (TGH), but I'd almost think that LTT would remember more of their past associations than Birgitte would at this point, unless their T'A'R memories are still available to them.

 

 

One meeting that could potentially be awesome would be when Rhuarc and Egwene meet again. I have serious doubts that it will now, but it could be. I hope their unfinished business isn't abandoned.

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I would be severely disappointed in the character of Cadsuane if she didn't show respect to Moiraine and treat her as an equal. Moiraine has done AT THE VERY LEAST as much as Cads has in Rand's growth, and certainly dedicated more time towards the survival of the world. She discovered Rand AND the other boys, she set Rand on the path to his destiny, she got out of the way when it was necessary; her courage alone in everything is amazing. It will be interesting to see but if Cads is an ass during it I won't like it one bit.

 

Right? If not for Moiraine (and Siuan) LoC was pretty indicative of Rand's fate at AS hands. To the doom of all, naturally.

 

As to who should go head to head, I want to see Tuon and Cads go at it. It's not gonna happen at FoM, I know, but Rand should take Cads with him when he goes to see Tuon again for the kneeling/peace making.

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Negotiation dreamteam: Rand, Mat and Perrin for the ta'veren and then Cadsuane, Tuon and Sorilea. The only group capable of getting a fair deal out of the Sea Folk. But back on topic I kind of hope Moiraine gets the big entrance, maybe Mat will try and organise one for her but then she just ignores him. It seems like a Sanderson thing to do.

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Moiraine and Cads? Their last known meeting happened over twenty years ago, I doubt either will have much to say about it to the other.

Birgitte and Rand? Why would Rand need LTT to remember Birgitte, he and Perrin both saw her at Falme and unlike Mat they didn't get their memories of those times scrambled. Even if they don't immediately make the connection when they see her they should both recognize her as soon as they hear her name. And it would require plot induced stupidity for them not to figure it out once they realize she is an outstanding archer of all things.

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It's going to be awkward for Cads when Rand kicks her to the curb for an advisor he can trust as soon as Moiraine arrives.

 

That he can trust? I don't recall Moir swearing to do what is best for Rand, not herself or the WT like Cads did. Cads has had his back as hard as anyone except for Min. I know Moir is a crowd favorite but let's be real here. She tried a number of ways to manipulate Rand and just changed methods when things weren't working. This is evidenced by the fact that even after she came clean with him she was still scheming(going behind his back in an attempt to convince the Aiel not cross the Dragon Wall is just one example). I'm sure she has a major role to play, we just need to be realistic of her intentions here. If anything Cads has earned Rands trust many times over. Without them both he would have never made it this far.

Edited by Suttree
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It's going to be awkward for Cads when Rand kicks her to the curb for an advisor he can trust as soon as Moiraine arrives.

 

That he can trust? I don't recall Moir swearing to do what is best for Rand, not herself or the WT like Cads did. Cads has had his back as hard as anyone except for Min. I know Moir is a crowd favorite but let's be real here. She tried a number of ways to manipulate Rand and just changed methods when things weren't working. This is evidenced by the fact that even after she came clean with him she was still scheming(going behind his back in an attempt to convince the Aiel not cross the Dragon Wall is just one example). I'm sure she has a major role to play, we just need to be realistic of her intentions here. If anything Cads has earned Rands trust many times over. Without them both he would have never made it this far.

 

And Cadsuane didn't try a number of ways to manipulate Rand? And didn't she just change methods when things weren't working. And Cadsuane also did a number of things behind his back. To-may-to, To-mah-to. I really see no difference between them in that regard. Cadsuane and Moiraine are quite similar in a number of ways. Brave, selfless, determined, strongwilled, adventureous, adaptable to name some. The biggest difference is that Cadsuane isn't as polite and hasn't that obvious noble bearing. I think what makes the difference is Moiraine's willingness to offer her life to save Rand when she faced Lanfear. Cadsuane never had the chance to do something similar and that's why Rand would probably be willing to trust Moiraine more than Cadsuane.

 

Which has nothing to do with Rand dismissing Cadsuane as an advisor. That just won't happen.

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It's going to be awkward for Cads when Rand kicks her to the curb for an advisor he can trust as soon as Moiraine arrives.

 

That he can trust? I don't recall Moir swearing to do what is best for Rand, not herself or the WT like Cads did. Cads has had his back as hard as anyone except for Min. I know Moir is a crowd favorite but let's be real here. She tried a number of ways to manipulate Rand and just changed methods when things weren't working. This is evidenced by the fact that even after she came clean with him she was still scheming(going behind his back in an attempt to convince the Aiel not cross the Dragon Wall is just one example). I'm sure she has a major role to play, we just need to be realistic of her intentions here. If anything Cads has earned Rands trust many times over. Without them both he would have never made it this far.

 

Have you forgotten about Moiraine's own oath to Rand? Or do you not think it strong enough?

 

“I will not be with you forever,” Moiraine said urgently. Her hands gripped her skirts so hard that they trembled. “I might die in the next attack. I could fall from my horse and break my neck, or take a Darkfriend’s arrow through my heart, and death cannot be Healed. I have given my entire life to the search for you, to find you and help you. You still do not know your own strength; you cannot know half of what you do. I—apologize—most humbly for any offense I have given you.” Those words—words he had never thought to hear from her—came out as if dragged, but they came; and she could not lie. “Let me help you as much as I can, while I can. Please.”

 

“It’s hard to trust you, Moiraine.” He disregarded Lan, shifting in the moonlight; his attention was all on her. “You have handled me like a puppet, made me dance the way you wanted, from the day we met. The only times I’ve been free of you were either when you were far away or when I ignored you. And you make even that hard.”

 

Her laugh was as silvery as the moon above, but bitterness tinged it. “It has been more like wrestling with a bear than pulling strings on a puppet. Do you want an oath not to try manipulating you? I give it.” Her voice hardened to crystal. “I even swear to obey you like one of the Maidens—like one of the gai’shain, if you require—but you must—” Taking a deep breath, she began again, more softly. “I ask you, humbly, to allow me to help you.”

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It's going to be awkward for Cads when Rand kicks her to the curb for an advisor he can trust as soon as Moiraine arrives.

 

That he can trust? I don't recall Moir swearing to do what is best for Rand, not herself or the WT like Cads did. Cads has had his back as hard as anyone except for Min. I know Moir is a crowd favorite but let's be real here. She tried a number of ways to manipulate Rand and just changed methods when things weren't working. This is evidenced by the fact that even after she came clean with him she was still scheming(going behind his back in an attempt to convince the Aiel not cross the Dragon Wall is just one example). I'm sure she has a major role to play, we just need to be realistic of her intentions here. If anything Cads has earned Rands trust many times over. Without them both he would have never made it this far.

 

And Cadsuane didn't try a number of ways to manipulate Rand? And didn't she just change methods when things weren't working. And Cadsuane also did a number of things behind his back. To-may-to, To-mah-to. I really see no difference between them in that regard. Cadsuane and Moiraine are quite similar in a number of ways. Brave, selfless, determined, strongwilled, adventureous, adaptable to name some. The biggest difference is that Cadsuane isn't as polite and hasn't that obvious noble bearing. I think what makes the difference is Moiraine's willingness to offer her life to save Rand when she faced Lanfear. Cadsuane never had the chance to do something similar and that's why Rand would probably be willing to trust Moiraine more than Cadsuane.

 

Which has nothing to do with Rand dismissing Cadsuane as an advisor. That just won't happen.

 

Exactly my point, whith the exception that only one has sworn to do what is best for Rand. Somehow the fandom seems to gloss over Moir's manipulation. In addition not sure how backing Rand to the hilt at the Cleansing isn't offering her life? Further saving him from insanity and being shipped to back Elaida has to count for a good deal. Recall as well that Rand credits Cads with putting him on the right track for VoG, he fully understands how much he can trust her based on these things.

 

WH

"I must ask the same question," Nesune said sharply. She sat very straight in her saddle, and her dark eyes met Rand's gaze levelly. "By everything I have read, the attempt to use those sa'angreal may result in disaster. Together, they might be strong enough to crack the world like an egg."

Like an egg! Lews Therin agreed. They were never tested, never tried. This is insane! he shrieked. You are mad! Mad!

"The last I heard," Rand told the sisters, "one Asha'man in fifty had gone mad and had to be put down like a rabid dog. More will have, by now. There is a risk to doing this, but it's all maybe and might. If I don't try, the certainty is that more and more men will go mad, maybe scores, maybe all of us, and sooner or later it will be too many to be killed easily. Will you enjoy waiting for the Last Battle with a hundred rabid Asha'man wandering about, or two hundred, or five? And maybe me one of them? How long will the world survive that?" He spoke to the two Browns, but it was Cadsuane who he watched. Her almost black eyes never left him. He needed to keep her with him, but if she tried to talk him out of it, he would reject her advice no matter the consequences. If she tried to stop him . . . ? Saidin raged inside him.

"Will you do the deed here?" she asked.

"In Shadar Logoth," he told her, and she nodded.

"A fitting place," she said, "if we are to risk destroying the world."

 

It's going to be awkward for Cads when Rand kicks her to the curb for an advisor he can trust as soon as Moiraine arrives.

 

That he can trust? I don't recall Moir swearing to do what is best for Rand, not herself or the WT like Cads did. Cads has had his back as hard as anyone except for Min. I know Moir is a crowd favorite but let's be real here. She tried a number of ways to manipulate Rand and just changed methods when things weren't working. This is evidenced by the fact that even after she came clean with him she was still scheming(going behind his back in an attempt to convince the Aiel not cross the Dragon Wall is just one example). I'm sure she has a major role to play, we just need to be realistic of her intentions here. If anything Cads has earned Rands trust many times over. Without them both he would have never made it this far.

 

Have you forgotten about Moiraine's own oath to Rand? Or do you not think it strong enough?

 

“I will not be with you forever,” Moiraine said urgently. Her hands gripped her skirts so hard that they trembled. “I might die in the next attack. I could fall from my horse and break my neck, or take a Darkfriend’s arrow through my heart, and death cannot be Healed. I have given my entire life to the search for you, to find you and help you. You still do not know your own strength; you cannot know half of what you do. I—apologize—most humbly for any offense I have given you.” Those words—words he had never thought to hear from her—came out as if dragged, but they came; and she could not lie. “Let me help you as much as I can, while I can. Please.”

 

“It’s hard to trust you, Moiraine.” He disregarded Lan, shifting in the moonlight; his attention was all on her. “You have handled me like a puppet, made me dance the way you wanted, from the day we met. The only times I’ve been free of you were either when you were far away or when I ignored you. And you make even that hard.”

 

Her laugh was as silvery as the moon above, but bitterness tinged it. “It has been more like wrestling with a bear than pulling strings on a puppet. Do you want an oath not to try manipulating you? I give it.” Her voice hardened to crystal. “I even swear to obey you like one of the Maidens—like one of the gai’shain, if you require—but you must—” Taking a deep breath, she began again, more softly. “I ask you, humbly, to allow me to help you.”

 

I don't consider it strong enough. Again recall she went behind his back on things like the Aiel post that moment. That was just Moir switching tactics once the first wasn't working. I actually think he can trust both, was more disputing Osangar's claim on Cads. You do have to admit the fandom tends to idealize Moir's actions.

Edited by Suttree
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I don't consider it strong enough. Again recall she went behind his back on things like the Aiel post that moment. That was just Moir switching tactics once the first wasn't working.

 

She was doing what she thought was best to help him, not putting the White Tower or herself first. But more important than any of that, that was before she made the oath to Rand. The event you speak of was in chapter 2. The oath was in chapter 6.

Edited by Agitel
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I don't consider it strong enough. Again recall she went behind his back on things like the Aiel post that moment. That was just Moir switching tactics once the first wasn't working.

 

She was doing what she thought was best to help him, not putting the White Tower or herself first. But more important than any of that, that was before she made the oath to Rand. The event you speak of was in chapter 2. The oath was in chapter 6.

 

She tried to convince them to not cross the dragon wall in ch. 2? My bad must have got that mixed up, could have sworn it came after...

 

Edit: Just checked, it happened in Ch. 5, the events are pretty much back to back.

Edited by Suttree
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For me, the reason Moiraine is more trustworthy is action. They both have been manipulative in the past, and both have changed tactics, both have given oaths... but Moiraine literally threw herself into a torturous situation for Rand, she spent her entire life tracking him down, and for all her manipulation she managed to gain his trust without Min constantly telling Rand he needs her, and without driving him to the edge of madness where it felt like almost a coin toss whether he would break the world or come back to his senses. Now perhaps he needed to be driven to the edge of madness, but it is hardly the 'trustworthy' method of inspiring change.

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