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how the Senchean beat the Aial (avienda vision) ???


elric
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EDIT: You also have to take into consideration that the Forsaken have had a decade of fighting to find out which is best, I think that if the males think they have an advantage they probably do.

 

Lanfear was the only really powerful female forsaken though. Most of the males were on the same level of strength as LTT which is powerful, whereas most of the female forsaken were good but not the upper most echelon. Take Moghedian she was balanced against Nynaeve when she hadnt really had much training and most likely had not hit her fullest potential.

 

They have an advantage but the main advantage they have is that the women dont know if they are holding Saidin, so they are almost always at full power and if they even get a glimmer that the women embrace they will most likely just kill them, and the forsaken are cowards most of the time.

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Men are stronger with the more destructive powers than women. It is a pretty well established theme in the series that men are better at offense, with the OP or without.

Ah, bleh. Forgot the Fire/Earth vs Air/Water thing. In that case, yes, Asha'man will be stronger in fighting--but not simply because they can draw more OP.

 

Edit: It also appears that Asmodean at least thinks that men have it better off, but i don't know how much of an indication that is--i thought the big thing between men and women (as well as other conflicts) in this series are equal and opposite forces?

 

You are correct in that it evens out...

 

RJ

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.

 

While strength might give males a small advantage in fighting I've always suspected it isn't as great as some of the male forsaken seem to think.

i think the key word is practical. Their deftness does not make lifting a boulder easier, but makes physically removing a tumor easier. War is not practical, Nola day to say actions are
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i think the key word is practical. Their deftness does not make lifting a boulder easier, but makes physically removing a tumor easier. War is not practical, Nola day to say actions are

 

It makes it easier to cut a weave though. To me its like putting a 7ft 300lb monster of a boxer in the ring with a 5'5 150lb martial arts expert(muay thai, kung fu, jui jitsu etc) if the big guy hits the little one he'll flaw him, but the little guy has more chance of getting around him, avoiding his blows and then hitting him in vital area's. The big guy has the advantage, but that isnt always enough.

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i think the key word is practical. Their deftness does not make lifting a boulder easier, but makes physically removing a tumor easier. War is not practical, Nola day to say actions are

Except the deftness of weaves ties heavily into the efficiency of weaves. This means that woman would be much better at precision strikes, which is exactly what is needed in channeler vs channeler fights--you want to hit them before they can hit you. It's the difference between an ax and a sword--they both have their strengths and weakness, but neither is simply "better".

 

I think by "practical" he means that, in general, a man and woman channeler will be about the same strength/skill of the power. They are different but equal.

Edited by TNine
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The more I think about Avi's vision and the future of the Aiel and Seanchan, as it relates to the present state of nations in Randland, the less I believe the future Avi saw is going to happen.

 

The last several pages of this thread, and other threads like it, devolve into people arguing about damane vs AS/AM - the value of circles vs the experience of damane. That's like arguing about how long a piece of string is.

 

The Dark One's influence on Randland and the world has not only held back progress, but reversed it. Populations are shrinking, knowledge is lost, nations like the Aiel and Shara have lived in isolation for three thousand years. The Seanchan is a nation built on damane and slaves. All these are examples of the DO's and Ishy's influence.

 

When Rand defeats the Dark One, I believe civilization will spring forward as if over night. With progress comes enlightenment and with that the future we see in Avi's vision is impossible.

 

The WT is going to loose influence. The Aiel cannot go back to living in isolation. Shara will open it's borders. The Seanchan will no longer have damane. I believe that even if Avi does not act, the future she saw will not come to pass without the influence of the DO present.

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I know we've been told that the Seanchan cannot use cycles because of the Adam, but doesn't Tuon show us that they can? If you add the fact that the male Adam has 2 arm bands, then they should be able to take their strange cycles to the max number. Provided that their arms are long enough that is.

 

Anyway, the reason that the Seanchan win is that Mat's children inherit his memories ;-)

Edited by Arty
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I know we've been told that the Seanchan cannot use cycles because of the Adam, but doesn't Tuon show us that they can? If you add the fact that the male Adam has 2 arm bands, then they should be able to take their strange cycles to the max number. Provided that their arms are long enough that is.

 

Anyway, the reason that the Seanchan win is that Mat's children inherit his memories ;-)

 

The male a'dam is nothing like the female. or the female damane would eventually take over the sul'dam like the male one causes. It ends up being a battle for control..

 

As for why they win, The Aiel mentality is the reason, nothing other than that in many respects and the reason for the war in the first place.

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When I first read about the Aiel I was reminded of real-world Amerindians. Then, reading Avi's visions, especially the far-future ones, speaking of technologically advanced invaders (the Malidra PoV in ToM48) and the corresponding decline of the Aiel, this impression returned very strongly.

 

I'm beginning to think that only a remnant of a remnant of the Aiel will survive.

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The Aeil are rustic inflexible warriors. The Seanchan are the rulers of an entire continent.

 

They outnumber the Aiel. They can levy much larger forces. They train competent military leaders whereas the Aiel are not a strategic military but more of a guerilla force. Subjects such as supply lines, strongholds and area denial are not concepts they're familiar with. So the Seanchan simply push them back in a war of attrition. Add to this that the Seanchan are very adaptable and use all available means to win. The Aeil are a primitive superstitious barbarian people. Considering the advent of cannons already taking place now as we see in the Mat story arcs, it is feasible if based on earth history development that the Seanchan possess basic rifle battalions by the time the war is turning to an end. Try charging into a line of muskets and see how far it gets you.

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