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The top 10 fighters with the OP/TP

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Who are the best fighters with the OP and TP among all the surviving characters both on the light side as well as the dark?.As a lot of LB will be fought with the power maybe this will give us a preview on who will tangle with who.

 

My list

 

1) Rand & Moridin (If the fight was only with OP I would put Rand slightly ahead but with TP involved I think Ishy or Moridin has closed that gap)

3) Lanfear/Cyndane

4) Alivia

5) Demandred

6) Taim

7) Egwene

8) Logain

9) Nynaeve

10) Graendal

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I agree with the top 3. If it wasn't for Rand/Moridin/Lanfear having experience from the last Age, I would definitely place my bets on Alivia.

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The tough part is while men are stronger, women weave more deftly, and experience is hard to rate amongst the above folks

 

I have got to think Cadsuane is in the top 10, as her 300+ years of experience balances out Egwene's being moderately stronger... and her paralis net gives her huge advantages in combat with the one power.

 

Nynaeve has as much battle experience as Egwene, and is significantly stronger. And again, she had a ter'angreal/angreal set that really helps in combat. Eewene probably gets pushed off the list just barely by Cadsuane... ALthough, by the measure of One Power goodies, If Egwene has Vora's Wand (Sa'angreal) she shoots back up the list.

 

The text notes that both Taim and Logain are near Rand's level, and my impression based on that is that Logain and Taim and nearly equivocal.

 

Given that Demandred was just second to LTT in the Age of LEgends, I might put him ahead of Alivia, and equal (or greater) to Lanfear given her modest power reduction. Its a matter of comparing battle experience (in Alivia's favor) to the One Power knowledge from the Age of Legends.

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The tough part is while men are stronger, women weave more deftly, and experience is hard to rate amongst the above folks

 

I have got to think Cadsuane is in the top 10, as her 300+ years of experience balances out Egwene's being moderately stronger... and her paralis net gives her huge advantages in combat with the one power.

 

Nynaeve has as much battle experience as Egwene, and is significantly stronger. And again, she had a ter'angreal/angreal set that really helps in combat. Eewene probably gets pushed off the list just barely by Cadsuane... ALthough, by the measure of One Power goodies, If Egwene has Vora's Wand (Sa'angreal) she shoots back up the list.

 

The text notes that both Taim and Logain are near Rand's level, and my impression based on that is that Logain and Taim and nearly equivocal.

 

Given that Demandred was just second to LTT in the Age of LEgends, I might put him ahead of Alivia, and equal (or greater) to Lanfear given her modest power reduction. Its a matter of comparing battle experience (in Alivia's favor) to the One Power knowledge from the Age of Legends.

 

I think you are confusing strength with skill in fighting. While Taim and Logain may be as strong as Rand, they have no where near the knowledge of Rand,And Taim is trained by Moridin so that is why I place him above Logain.

 

I put Egwene above Cads because she has been trained by the Seachan as a damane and has knowledge of some AoL weaves from Moggy.Cads knows nothing of that.

 

Ny has experience in fighting but again it is all self learned.She is stronger than Egwene but I do not think she has the same mentality in fighting nor has she been trained by the Seachan as Egwene.

 

Demandred may be as strong as Rand but he is a general not a fighter.His PoV during the cleaning of Saiden battle pretty much shows that he is uncomfortable doing the actual fighting.

 

I put Alivia in her position because she has 400 years of experience in using OP in fights.

 

And the rating is without anyone using angreal and terangreals.

Edited by XXX47

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since Man are stronger in the power then woman i decided to seperate it into 2 diffrent categories

man:

1)Rand/Moridin

2) Demandred

3) Logain/ Taime

 

the woman category is much more vouge

 

1)Nyn/Elivia /The sea falk apprentice who practive fighting with Nyn /Lanfear

 

Elivia is the strongest and most experienced | the sea falk kid shown extreme skill in how she manage to defeat Nyn | Nyn have incredible fighting spirit , never say die attidute (to stubborn to admit lost :) ), cant copy any wave she seen once even in midfight (huge advantage) and seem to FINALLY learn a bit of self control | need i explain why Lanfear is top tier ? :)

 

2) Graendal

3) Egwene (unless it in Tar) /Cadsuan /Avienda

4) Morraine

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1) Rand

1 1/2 or 2) Demandred

3) Moridin

4) Lanfear(maybe cyndane at this level too)

5) Alivia

6) Logain

7+) Everything starts getting a bit vague, Taim, Nyv, etc are likely around similar levels.

 

The reasons i put both Rand and Demandred above moridin(ishammael) is because both Lews Therin and Demandred were generals and War leaders during the War of Power...where as ishammael was not a massive fighter(from the info we have). I have no doubts that moridin has unbelievable skills with the One power(although he primarily utilizes the True Power nowadays), and he is basically on the same level as Rand in regards to strength, he was not a field general, nor a fighter really, where as when the War of Power started getting serious, Lews Therin's and Demandred's business became War( although it may be more appropriate to put moridin and demandred on the same level). I'd like to use the example of Aginor, who from what we have heard, was second only to Lews Therin and Ishammael in power, and although he could form what we can consider 'combat weaves' his strengths and interests were in different areas, eg. mashing together human and animal DNA, and i have no doubt that if it had ever come to blows between say demandred and aginor...or maybe even sammael and aginor, aginor would be the party who would be destroyed, although he may take a few pieces of his opponent with him.

 

It seems like ones abilities with the one power relies heavily on their personality(im sure this point has been made before, but it helps explain some of the characters abilities, and therefore combat abilities). A few examples that really highlight my point:

 

1) Rand- Straight forward(primarily) somewhat aggressive, commanding, strong willed, brave---- Combat oriented.

2) Nyv- Caring, motherly, passionate, loving, wants to help everyone, forceful-----Healing oriented( and although shes massively strong allowing her to often overcome others, she really isnt a fighter and her place in a battle should always be healing rather than anywhere near combat.

3) Egwene- Very similar to Rand---- Combat oriented(and useless at healing...like rand). Female equivalent of Rand in many ways

4) Moghedion- Sly, fearful, selfish, cruel, manipulative etc---- Pretty useless at everything, but has a knack for compulsion.

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It depends what we are talking about here. There are many ways to fight and it depends on the situation, people would react differently. Also combat can involve many other non-combat weaves. Ultimately, I think the ranking is pointless, but here is my general rankings.

 

1. Rand and Moridin - Rand for obvious reasons, Moridin because of the True Power and his nihilistic insanity. I don't rate him that highly, Elan was not a fighter, but his lack of care for...anything... makes him dangerous.

 

2. Demandred - He was a soldier and a general. The second greatest man of the Age. The Cleansing isn't a good example for any of them. None of them wanted to be there, with the power that was being used. Beyond showing up so as not to get punished, Demandred didn't really care much. So when he was attacked, he just bailed. It wasn't worth it (to him), thus him thinking he shouldn't have to fight. Also, just because he does not want to fight, does not mean he can't. In a way, it is much like Mat. Mat would have the same reaction, but Mat is kickass when pushed to it.

 

3. Cyndane - I would have put Lanfear on par with Demandred, but with Cyndane's loss of strength, she doesn't have the power for it. But she is still extremely deadly, the most dangerous female channeller alive. She pretty much make a mockery of Alivia (in fact it is the most dangerous we have seen one of the Chosen). Alivia has like 400 or so years of being a weapon, she has a powerful angreal that makes her stronger than Lanfear was, not to mention Cyndane, and she had a ter'angreal similar to the foxhead. Still, Cyndane escapes without a scratch and manages to burn Alivia's arm up. Nice work.

 

4. Graendal - Graendal is very powerful, a skilled weaver and a fast thinker.

 

5. Taim we cannot be sure of, so this is really a semi-educated guess. However, he is very strong in the Power and I assume has been given training by Ishamael or one of the other Forsaken. We have seen his teaching of Asha'man to be quite effective in the destruction department.

 

6. Logain/Alivia - Logain is below Taim, he doesn't really have much experience with the Power, however, he is powerful, and with knowledge gained from LTT in KoD, he is dangerous. But I can't really put him above Moggy or Nynaeve because we have not seen anything to think he is skilled beyond being powerful. (although he most likely is) Alivia isn't that great. She can destroy, but has little other skill. A dangerous one, but not worthy of a higher position.

 

7. Mogehdien Nynaeve - Moggy because of her AoL knowledge, no matter her cowardice, she is still very, very dangerous. Nynaeve because of her strength and experience. She has fought many channeller-battles, while she is not very destructive, that experience is vital

 

8. Cadsuane - not all that powerful, but extremely skilled. The abundance of male channellers she has "handled" gives her much credit.

 

9. Egwene/ Narishma /Flinn - Egwene is pretty good at destroying stuff, but a level below the top tiers in Power and limited experience with channeller v channeller combat. Narishma is mostly another semi-educated guess, but he is reasonably powerful, which I would equate to about Egwene level, he fought at Dumai's wells, in the Altara-Seanchan campaign, Manor attack. He has been with Rand for a long time, and likely picked up a bunch of weaves. Flinn is relatively powerful (the most powerful in Rand's cadre and perhaps only Logain, Rand and Taim are stronger - we don't really know) and pretty skilled. He was given command of the circle at the Cleansing and proved himself to be apt.

 

10. Aviendha - Aiel know battle, the instinct alone makes them more dangerous. Aviendha is known to be a quick learner and as powerful as Egwene/Elayne. A step below because she hasn't really had the experience Egwene has with battle. However, she is certainly dangerous.

 

None of the others are really noteworthy, not to be in the top fighters list. Elayne is pregnant and does nothing much besides being captured/injured.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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None of the Forsaken have 400 years of experience at fighting. We've only seen Alivia fight once, and she chased off the most powerful woman we've ever seen. I hope we see the skills, in this book, that she bragged of. Hopefully, she'll move up to #2 after Rand.

 

Nyneave is pretty tough in a fight too. She nearly stilled Moggy, before she was even unblocked.

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Where does Moiraine rank now? She's significantly stronger now that she's back, right? Is she up to, say, Egwene's power level now?

 

I don't think Moiraine has ever been an expert in fighting with the OP against other OP wielders.And this is a list of skill in fighting not strength.

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None of the Forsaken have 400 years of experience at fighting. We've only seen Alivia fight once, and she chased off the most powerful woman we've ever seen. I hope we see the skills, in this book, that she bragged of. Hopefully, she'll move up to #2 after Rand.

 

Alivia was wearing a paralis-net which included an item of power identical to Mat's foxhead medallion. Regardless she still took the worse of things in that fight(in terms of damage) when all was said and done, for all that Lanfear eventually retreated. That isn't a good example.

Edited by Suttree

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Ishy/Moridin is really overrated here. Rand kicked his ass time and time again even back when he barely knew what he was doing with the One Power.

 

But was Ishy in total command of his facilities when he fought Rand earlier?

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A battle is contestest based on skill, strength and luck.

 

1. Rand. Nobody was LTT's equal.

 

2. Moridin with TP

 

3. Demandred

 

4. Taim...probably very close to Rand or Ishy in strength and likely trained by Ishy. If he was not trained by a Chosen, that drops him down the list to around Logain.

 

5. Cyndane. A fully powered Lanfear would be #4

 

6. Logain, while strength wise probably tied with Taim, can't be as skillfull

 

7. Grandael.

 

8. Alivia. She might be as strong as the original Lanfear, but she has really no defensive skills, which is a huge disadvantage. She can overwhelm Nynaeve whatever she did...according to Nynaeve.

 

9. Nynaeve minus artifacts

 

10. Moghdien

 

Nynaeve will all her apparatus (angreal) plus the Mat like fox medallion would go around 3 or 4. Plus she has battleed Forsaken and is prepared for what they can bring.

 

Cadusane with her artifacts is probably mid-level (angreal + Mat like foxhead and other things).

 

Moraine with her strong angreal could displace Moghdien.

 

As for Cyndane vs. Alivia, we don't know if Alivia took the worse of the beating. In order for someone like Cyndane to retreat, she must have taken a beating.

Edited by Entreri

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Ishy thought Graendal and Sammael had somewhat similar chances of success. I've always had the impression that women and men could do about the same and to the same degree, but that men were more likely to succeed in a fight, because I've thought strength mattered more with simpler weaves, and because you don't need a complicated weave (greater dexterity) to kill someone. Rand at full strength would most likely kill the strongest woman (Lanfear) - given that everything else was speaking equally for either of them. There were 8 men and 5 women among the Forsaken, and they were among the stronger of the the ones surviving the culling process. Those are among the things that gave me that expression. We'll probably not read much about in the last book, I think.

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So in what point (as you specified FIGHTERS with OP/TP) would Egwene actually beat Logain? Logain would literally roast her alive and eat her with close to no effort. Could you please, please specify why you would think Egwene could handle Logain?

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So in what point (as you specified FIGHTERS with OP/TP) would Egwene actually beat Logain? Logain would literally roast her alive and eat her with close to no effort. Could you please, please specify why you would think Egwene could handle Logain?

 

Egwene knows some AoL weaves from Moggy. Logain also know some from Rand but Egwene's knowledge is considerably greater there. Egwene also trained by Seachan who have used and perfected the use of OP in battle for 1000 years. Logain has no such training.

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Ishy thought Graendal and Sammael had somewhat similar chances of success. I've always had the impression that women and men could do about the same and to the same degree, but that men were more likely to succeed in a fight, because I've thought strength mattered more with simpler weaves, and because you don't need a complicated weave (greater dexterity) to kill someone. Rand at full strength would most likely kill the strongest woman (Lanfear) - given that everything else was speaking equally for either of them. There were 8 men and 5 women among the Forsaken, and they were among the stronger of the the ones surviving the culling process. Those are among the things that gave me that expression. We'll probably not read much about in the last book, I think.

 

I would say that Grandael is the most dangerous opponent, but not in one-on-one confrontations (Rahvin's PoV in book 5 suggests that Sammael is probably just as strong as Rahvin or if not slightly stronger).

 

Ishamael thinks very highly of Grandael's abilities and so did SH. Even LTT thought very highly of Grandael.

 

Bear in mind, Grandael had no wish to go face-to-face against Rand when the strength of Ishamael and Rahvin failed.

 

I agree, strength would matter much more in face-to-face battles than a skills advantage (if the skills advantage is not significant). Lanfear may be able to weave the most complex weave via skill and/or dex advantage, but in this kind of battle, speed counts.

 

Rahvin said that either he or Sammael would "overwhelm" Lanfear in a face-to-face confrontation. "Grandael would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried". The same exact wording Nyaneve used when thinking of fighting Alivia.

 

Rand at full strength would be much stronger than Lanfear. Bear in mind that even in book 5, if Rand had let LTT take over, he would have killed her. Rand was nowhere near full strength in book 5, and half-trained.

Edited by Entreri

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So in what point (as you specified FIGHTERS with OP/TP) would Egwene actually beat Logain? Logain would literally roast her alive and eat her with close to no effort. Could you please, please specify why you would think Egwene could handle Logain?

 

Egwene knows some AoL weaves from Moggy. Logain also know some from Rand but Egwene's knowledge is considerably greater there. Egwene also trained by Seachan who have used and perfected the use of OP in battle for 1000 years. Logain has no such training.

 

Logain would many times stronger than Egwene and would very easily overwhelm her. Egwene would win in TAR or she would win if she used balefire. That is it.

 

Plus we don't know how much of Taim's teaching has filtered out. Asha'man have shown to be able to handle both AS and damane.

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It depends what we are talking about here. There are many ways to fight and it depends on the situation, people would react differently. Also combat can involve many other non-combat weaves. Ultimately, I think the ranking is pointless, but here is my general rankings.

 

1. Rand and Moridin - Rand for obvious reasons, Moridin because of the True Power and his nihilistic insanity. I don't rate him that highly, Elan was not a fighter, but his lack of care for...anything... makes him dangerous.

 

2. Demandred - He was a soldier and a general. The second greatest man of the Age. The Cleansing isn't a good example for any of them. None of them wanted to be there, with the power that was being used. Beyond showing up so as not to get punished, Demandred didn't really care much. So when he was attacked, he just bailed. It wasn't worth it (to him), thus him thinking he shouldn't have to fight. Also, just because he does not want to fight, does not mean he can't. In a way, it is much like Mat. Mat would have the same reaction, but Mat is kickass when pushed to it.

 

3. Cyndane - I would have put Lanfear on par with Demandred, but with Cyndane's loss of strength, she doesn't have the power for it. But she is still extremely deadly, the most dangerous female channeller alive. She pretty much make a mockery of Alivia (in fact it is the most dangerous we have seen one of the Chosen). Alivia has like 400 or so years of being a weapon, she has a powerful angreal that makes her stronger than Lanfear was, not to mention Cyndane, and she had a ter'angreal similar to the foxhead. Still, Cyndane escapes without a scratch and manages to burn Alivia's arm up. Nice work.

 

4. Graendal - Graendal is very powerful, a skilled weaver and a fast thinker.

 

5. Taim we cannot be sure of, so this is really a semi-educated guess. However, he is very strong in the Power and I assume has been given training by Ishamael or one of the other Forsaken. We have seen his teaching of Asha'man to be quite effective in the destruction department.

 

6. Logain/Alivia - Logain is below Taim, he doesn't really have much experience with the Power, however, he is powerful, and with knowledge gained from LTT in KoD, he is dangerous. But I can't really put him above Moggy or Nynaeve because we have not seen anything to think he is skilled beyond being powerful. (although he most likely is) Alivia isn't that great. She can destroy, but has little other skill. A dangerous one, but not worthy of a higher position.

 

7. Mogehdien Nynaeve - Moggy because of her AoL knowledge, no matter her cowardice, she is still very, very dangerous. Nynaeve because of her strength and experience. She has fought many channeller-battles, while she is not very destructive, that experience is vital

 

8. Cadsuane - not all that powerful, but extremely skilled. The abundance of male channellers she has "handled" gives her much credit.

 

9. Egwene/ Narishma /Flinn - Egwene is pretty good at destroying stuff, but a level below the top tiers in Power and limited experience with channeller v channeller combat. Narishma is mostly another semi-educated guess, but he is reasonably powerful, which I would equate to about Egwene level, he fought at Dumai's wells, in the Altara-Seanchan campaign, Manor attack. He has been with Rand for a long time, and likely picked up a bunch of weaves. Flinn is relatively powerful (the most powerful in Rand's cadre and perhaps only Logain, Rand and Taim are stronger - we don't really know) and pretty skilled. He was given command of the circle at the Cleansing and proved himself to be apt.

 

10. Aviendha - Aiel know battle, the instinct alone makes them more dangerous. Aviendha is known to be a quick learner and as powerful as Egwene/Elayne. A step below because she hasn't really had the experience Egwene has with battle. However, she is certainly dangerous.

 

None of the others are really noteworthy, not to be in the top fighters list. Elayne is pregnant and does nothing much besides being captured/injured.

 

This seem about right to me.

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Nyn bypassed Moge.

when the fought she was 1/2 blocked and not developed at all.

it is mention Nyn grown in power and in ability (like how her dwelling become stronger allowing her to c things she wasnt able at the time she beat Moge)

 

i put Elivia and Nyn at same level purely becouse of Nyn leaning ability, beeing able to copy and counter a wave after seeing it cast for the first time is amazing, and Nyn can use inverted wave forcing Eli to fight blindly.

 

i douth any woman can beat a man in 1 on 1, it was mention several time that man is stronger in the power.

man are stronger channeler but cant link

woman weaker channeler but can form circle

so in 1 on 1 man win , in 5 on 5 woman win (circle of 5 vs 5 solo attacks)

 

the Senchean training aint that good for duel.

it focus mainly on pure destruction but no subtality , i view the sencheen as Glass cannon -> high dmg but no defence

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Men are supposedly much stronger in the power (akin to arm-wrestling), and their powers are much more geared toward violence than women (i.e. earth & fire vs. air & spirit). So, even the strongest female channeler in the series (Lanfear) would've been a weaker "arm-wrestler" than a great many of male channelers. Therefore, I think it makes sense to rank men and women separately (especially since they themselves channel different sides of the same coin, saidin vs. saidar).

 

Top Male Channelers (Including those from the series who have already been dispatched):

 

1. Rand/Lews Therin

2. Moridin/Ishamael

3. Aginor

4. Demandred

5. Be'lal

 

Aginor was supposedly stronger in the power than any of the Chosen, other than Ishamael. He may not have been as good of a fighter as, say, Demandred, but he was technically stronger. Plus, he created the Shadowspawn, so they pretty much fought for him. No need to command a dark legion, when you're the "Father of Myrddraal". Sammael or Rahvin might've been stronger than Be'lal, but Sammael's talents were more inclined toward defense, whereas Rahvin liked to stay in the shadows, so I'll give the edge to Be'lal.

 

Top Male Channelers (amongst the living):

 

1. Rand

2. Moridin

3. Demandred

4. Mazrim Taim

5. Logain

 

Granted, we really don't know Taim's story, so he may in fact be stronger than Demandred, but I find that highly unlikely. Demandred is a badass, and unless Taim is some kind of Shadowspawn, or something along those lines (perhaps some kind of channeling version of Slayer?), I don't see how he can possibly be stronger than one of the Forsaken.

 

Top Female Channelers (including the deceased)

1. Lanfear

2. Semirhage

3. Graendal

4. Mesaana

5. Moghedien

 

Lanfear was as strong as a female channeler could possibly be, prior to her death and resurrection (while still strong, Cyndane doesn't nearly equal Lanfear's power). And, supposedly, Semirhage was right behind Lanfear (and was easily the more feared of the two). Likewise, Mesaana and Moghedien were probably stronger than either Alivia or Nynaeve, at the height of their power (and certainly had more knowledge), but it's a close call (as evidenced by Nynaeve's triumph over Moghedien in Tanchico). And, I'd rank Mesaana ahead of Moghedien since she was a battlefield commander for the shadow.

 

Top Female Channelers (still living):

1. Graendal

2. Alivia

3. Nynaeve

4. Egwene

5. Cyndane

 

Cyndane doesn't really qualify, since she's not even her own self anymore (i.e. she's completely subservient to Moridin... so, you can't be too strong when you're not really your own person). Graendal is seemingly the top female Forsaken remaining (the only "free" female Forsaken remaining, if I recall correctly), and she may very well be subservient to Moridin/Shaidar Haran at this point as well. But, assuming she's not, I'd have to give her the top rank, especially when her knowledge is factored in.

Edited by Sightblinder'sMinder

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A woman can certainly beat a man one-on-one, assuming equal skill, because some women are indeed stronger.

 

Nyaneve is stronger than most men. Lanfear is likely stronger than 9/10 men.

 

Of course, in a face-to-face confrontation, someone like LTT or Ishamael would defeat Lanfear, outside of TAR.

 

I would say that beside the weakest of the male Chosen, any of the males would have beaten Lanfear in a face-to-face confrontation.

 

Shai'tan Chosen are the strongest, and Taim is the only one of his generation being Chosen. None of the Dark AS have been given this honor, no other Dark Asha'man, Red Veil channeling Aiel...Likely Taim can take out Cyndane and Grandael in a face-to-face confrontation.

 

The way they behaved, implied or stated strength, the top 5 male channelers:

 

1/ Rand

2/ Ishamael

3/ Demandred

4/ Sammael

5/ Rahvin

 

Aginor was proabably slightly more poweful than Demandred/Sammael/Rahvin, but he was a scientist and not a fighter. In one of the Chosen's meeting we see Aginor's suberviant behavior to Demandred...the attack at Winter's Heart, we see what kind of a fighter Aginior would make.

 

What we seen so far is that the top men are almost the same in OP strength, but someone like Lanfear is a greater outlier than LTT/Ishamael in OP strength. I doubt Aginor's very small greater strength advantage would have any impact over a fight against the likes of Demandred, Sammael or Rahvin.

 

As for the females:

 

1/ Lanfear

2/Cyndane

3/Grandael

4/Semirhage

5/ Messana

 

Grandael is stronger than Semirhage and Messana and her analysis skills are second to none. Still, I don't see how Grandael can beat Cyndane, given that Cyndane is stronger and likely as skilled (excluding balefire).

Edited by Entreri

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Men are supposedly much stronger in the power (akin to arm-wrestling), and their powers are much more geared toward violence than women (i.e. earth & fire vs. air & spirit). So, even the strongest female channeler in the series (Lanfear) would've been a weaker "arm-wrestler" than a great many of male channelers. Therefore, I think it makes sense to rank men and women separately (especially since they themselves channel different sides of the same coin, saidin vs. saidar).

 

Men can be stronger, women can be more agile. Not to mention each person is unique. For instance Lanfear is said to be the second strongest forsaken in certain WoT materials. There is really no reason to rank them separatley.

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Not sure why people think Logain shd be high up the list.He is strong yes but what about his training?

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