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The Fisher King

Snakes.Foxes.Mat.Moiraine.Rand - we SHOULD have *18* pieces of info here...DO WE??

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The Snakes in the Door in Tear answer three questions. The Foxes in the Door in Rhuidean grant three requests. Moiraine, Rand and Mat each went through each Door once. Mat, Rand and Moiraine would all have been given three answers and granted three requests. Ive seen threads before asking what Rand's third question was or what benefit Moiraine recieved..but:

 

Heading into AMOL, can we go 18 for 18 on saying what every single one is?

 

 

Fish

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We have only one bit of info, maybe two from Moiraine.

Requests

1) She asked for the angreal

2) She didn't ask to escape/ survive because she already knew she would

Questions:

We know nix about her questions and to complicate the issue, she has two other sources of prophesy - she's interrogated Min and she's run the Rhuidean rings.

Moi also read all the old texts Vandeme/ Adeleas could give her.

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I think Moiraine might be somewhat forthcoming in the next book with some of this information.... maybe. But, unless RJ has them in his notes and they are released.... I'm afraid we'll never know.

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If I were to guess.... she may have asked about how she could get Rand to follow her counsel. Which may be why she ends up acting acquiescing to him more and bullying him around less.

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If I were to guess.... she may have asked about how she could get Rand to follow her counsel. Which may be why she ends up acting acquiescing to him more and bullying him around less.

 

Actually she remembered Rand was like Saidar. To be able to control it she had to first surrender to it. And that basically what she had to do to be able to try to control him to a certain degree.

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What Rand asked of her was an oath not to interfere with his chosen course of action; he told her that himself on at least one occasion. What she gave was much greater than that, probably fueled some by desperation and by her trip through the rings. I doubt she learned that in the Finn's doorway, or she would have done it much sooner. But yeah, remembering that you gain control by surrendering is what she had in mind - she told Egwene that exactly when Egwene asked her why she was obeying Rand.

 

As an aside, I think this is a part why Rand still trusts Nynaeve without an oath - we know that Rand knows she still cares for him as a person, but I think it is also that she will tell Rand what she thinks and then let him choose his path, even if she does grumble about it.

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We have only one bit of info, maybe two from Moiraine.

Requests

1) She asked for the angreal

2) She didn't ask to escape/ survive because she already knew she would

Questions:

We know nix about her questions and to complicate the issue, she has two other sources of prophesy - she's interrogated Min and she's run the Rhuidean rings.

Moi also read all the old texts Vandeme/ Adeleas could give her.

 

I disagree with this, I think one of her requests must have been to survive, otherwise they would have had no reason not to kill her. She'd have no reason to suppose that her survival wouldn't relate to one of her requests.

 

So 1) angreal

2) to survive

3) ???

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I don't think she asked to survive because, she went through the rings in Rhuidean and knew from that that Mat, Thom and one other had to come for her. She knew they may not or even if they did it might not work. She knew that Thom couldn't approach Mat to come, Mat had to approach Tom. If she had just asked to survive she would have gotten it - maybe not in the way she wanted to...

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Good work to all those above correcting me to the fact that Rand did NOT go through the Door in Rhuidean. I ALWAYS forget that. Ok. 18-3.

 

We should know *15* pieces of pertinent information!

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King

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I don't think she asked to survive because, she went through the rings in Rhuidean and knew from that that Mat, Thom and one other had to come for her. She knew they may not or even if they did it might not work. She knew that Thom couldn't approach Mat to come, Mat had to approach Tom. If she had just asked to survive she would have gotten it - maybe not in the way she wanted to...

 

I don't remember reading anything that says she wished to survive or didn't, and equally well I don't remember finding out that her journey through the rings said that she may survive with or without that wish. She's done research into the rings, and I'm sure that at some stage she'd have noticed Mats scar, she's healed him at least once - so she's probably well aware that death is a price that can be demanded. Maybe the rings showed her that for her to survive that she had to use one of her wishes for it? Maybe not?

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Ok, I'm going to kick off with what we know:

 

Foxes:

Mat - memory filled, a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power, away from you and back to Rhuidean

Moiraine - angreal, ?, ? (although I think one of them will be to survive)

 

Snakes:

Moiraine - ?, ?, ?

Rand - ?, ?, ? Only thing here is that Rhuidean was not one of the answers.

Mat - Should I go home to help my people? (You must go to Rhuidean) Why should I? (If you do not go to Rhuidean, you will die) Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean? (You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fulfilled. Now, go.) What fate? Burn your hearts, what fate? What fate? (To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons! To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was! To give up half the light of the world to save the world! Go to Rhuidean, son of battles! Go to Rhuidean, trickster! Go, gambler! Go)

 

 

Any other clues?

 

Fish - true, but that doesn't mean she didn't need to take precautions, we can see with Elayne what happens when you use those predictions to guide your actions (or something like that)

Edited by BFG

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One of Rand's questions was how he could win the Last Battle and survive, "The North and the East must be as one, the South and the West must be as one, the Two must be as one. To live, you must die."

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But Elayne's a complete moron.

 

 

Fish

 

I have nothing to add to this discussion except to agree with the above :) Carry on

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But Elayne's a complete moron.

 

 

Fish

 

I have nothing to add to this discussion except to agree with the above :) Carry on

 

Fair point well made, good sirs. I shall rephrase - there's nothing in Mins vision to say that she didn't survive because she wished for it

*pauses to check negatives*

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I think its obvious that one of the questions would be related for how moiraine could help rand win the last battle. She is a blue the single greatest cause is the last battle hence the angreal. Maybe something about the bore.

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We have only one bit of info, maybe two from Moiraine.

Requests

1) She asked for the angreal

2) She didn't ask to escape/ survive because she already knew she would

Questions:

We know nix about her questions and to complicate the issue, she has two other sources of prophesy - she's interrogated Min and she's run the Rhuidean rings.

Moi also read all the old texts Vandeme/ Adeleas could give her.

 

I disagree with this, I think one of her requests must have been to survive, otherwise they would have had no reason not to kill her. She'd have no reason to suppose that her survival wouldn't relate to one of her requests.

 

So 1) angreal

2) to survive

3) ???

 

She specifically said she didn't ask for that, when she talked to Thom/ Mat post rescue.

Also everyone here is forgetting Lanfear also had three requests - and so did the Man (Moridin probably) who rescued here. What did they ask for?

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One of Rand's questions was how he could win the Last Battle and survive, "The North and the East must be as one, the South and the West must be as one, the Two must be as one. To live, you must die."

Another is how to cleanse saidin, "He had asked once, warily, where he knew the answers would be true, how to cleanse the taint from saidin. And got a riddle for answer. Herid Pel had claimed the riddle stated "sound principles, in both high philosophy and natural philosophy," but he had not seen any way to apply it to the problem at hand."

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This must be covered somewhere but once thru the red doorway, why didn't lanfear just travel out? I don't think L got three wishes.

 

Also why doesn't just a chosen just travel in the tower ask their ?s and dig out?

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