[Spoilers chapter 1] What is Rand's answer?

[TheAngryDruid]

I agree with Fel and those who are saying a permanent solution is not possible. And that when this age comes again (or, more precisely the AoL), then the Bore will have to be whole.

 

The trick will being remembering the DO. Always. Remembering balance. Remembering how the DO was unleashed, and accepting that men and women (and everyone) working together is the answer, and not trying to discover a new source of power that they can both access. Kind of hokey, but that's what I believe. It's not foolproof, but that is the best bet. Centers of learning. Songs. Stories. Bards. Reintegrated Aes Seadai who serve. The Brown Ajah's central role should be to preserve this knowledge and spread it.

 

Like Verin said, I don't think this battle will be fought the way Rand thought. Maybe that was a foreshadowing of Veins of Gold, but even if so, I think it applies to MORE than just VoG. The DOs victory was to be acheived by other means than force of arms, and so can that of the Light.

 

As for using the TP as the barrier. I often thought about this as well. The three being one (saidar, saidin, TP). But the more I've heard, the TP is, essentially, the DO. It is HIM as LTT said. If so, then it can't really be used as a barrier?

 

I think the answer is Mordeth/Fain/Aridhol will be the barrier. What better thing to set to keep the DO contained, then that which hates the DO most. I'll go a step further, Moiraine may know the answer, but it will likely be cryptic. She may not puzzle it out until she finds out HOW Rand cleansed saidin.

[Neophyte]

I think Rand is considering unweaving the bore. According to LTT's knowledge unweaving is impossible, though we already know that it isn't. So Rand thinks that he might try something that even LTT considers impossible.

 

Now that is an interesting idea. It would account for why Callandor is so important too - unweaving it would have to be done with women, since the Bore was made with both saidin and saidar.

 

And Mierin is one of the ones who made it, so if there is any reason for him to try to rescue her, that could be it. Her knowledge could be invaluable.

 

In fact ...

 

What if ... wait for it ... one of Moiraine's requests was that the Eelfinn give her Mierin's memory of making the Bore!

 

Sweet! Although, as awesome as the last part would be I assumed their memory transfer services had limits hence Mat's situation, and they wouldn't have access to Lanfear's memories from before she entered.

 

While you're in there, they seem to be able to "rummage through your memories." I think Mat's conclusions about them are just Mat's speculation - does anyone have an RJ quote on the mechanics of the memory transfer?

[mike hunt's here]

I'm sure this is covered somewhere else, but let me take a stab and one of the experts can tell me where to go...

 

the "three become one..." isnt that like the 3 rings of power and saurons' ring? They destroy sauron's ring and all the immortals have to leave middle earth.

 

i seriously think the one power/true power eye of the world stuff will disappear after the last battle, but im not sure because of the whole wheel of time cycle...

 

Herid Fel tells Rand its a circle: prison is whole, drill hole, seal. Which means the prison must be made whole again. but by doing so - all the power disappears?

 

then Rand leaves on a boat - per mins viewing, also like Gandalf and Frodo...because his place in the world is not needed any longer.

 

Im sure this is someone on theoryland or something to connect LOR to WoT....im just babbling now.

[bigdoug1971]

I think his answer is how "To live you must die". Sacrifice his blood on the rocks.......Die.........Mat blows the Horn of Valere...........He lives again.

 

Now, is he willing to try that? And I always hoped this time it would really be the Last Battle. We have a wildcard in Fain with a power given to him by the Finns that's never been in play before. I was hoping this would end the DO influencce for all time.

[Mik]

Sorry for so many posts

It has been said that the dragon soul had been born in other ages and not done anything much as nothing was happening at the time - this sort of abrogates the idea that the soul is holding the DO

Not at all.

 

I said the Dragon Soul being woven into the Pattern is the key-ingredient, but not the only factor. I posted earlier that there are more factors that are important, as we can see from the AoL.

See the other important bits bolded in the quote:

 

The Dragon will embrace Death and die, binding the seed of Shadow where the Creator had designed it. In the best possible place; Inside the purest and strongest of Souls, a Soul untouchable by pure evil, unless the person carrying that Soul let's him! Inside the Soul of the Dragon.

 

And there will the seed of Shadow linger, waiting for the turning of the Wheel into an Age where all memories of Shai'tan are forgotten and faded beyond myth... An Age where the knowledge of the Power is at such a level, that people will be able to reach for it -unknowing what they are truly reaching for- through the bounderies of the Pattern itself... An Age where -like any other- at one time the Soul that brings it is spun into the Pattern, so the Seed of Shadow inside it can be pinpointed.

 

...and then humanity will ride again on the winds of the rising storm... and on the Last Day, "the Dragon will ride again on the winds of Time itself!"

I think there are 4 factors that are important;

1 - Shai'tan must be truly and completely forgotten, so people who can free him won't realise what they set free upon the world.

2 - There must be a very high knowledge and use of the force that drives the Wheel in that Age.

3 - The place where Shai'tan is bound -the Dragon Soul- needs to be spun into the Pattern.

4 - Shai'tan needs enough power that can be felt, so it can be pinpointed.

 

In the Age ather the Third Age, too many people will remember Shai'tan -and what it truly represents/ means for Creation- for Shai'tan to be freed. Factors 1 and/ or 4 not being fullfilled, will prevent Shai'tan from having a chance of touching the Pattern in the 4th Age, despite the Dragon Soul being spun into the Pattern, regardless of how many times that Soul is spun out. In the Age after that Age, Channeling as we now know it, will probably be lost somehow. It's also unlikely Shai'tan will be completely forgotten already, because even in the current Age -regardless of all the wars & chaos- the people still know about (albeit mostly as legends) about AoL stuff. So in the 5th Age, factors 1 & 2 won't be met, despite the Dragon Soul being spun into the Pattern for maybe a thousand times in that Age. Etc..... untill we reach the 2nd Age again....and then, all 4 key-factors can be met...like we have seen happening in the AoL.

 

 

Also LTT was born before the DO was freed so that proves it

Hardly. The Seed of Shadow was there, ever since Lews Therin was born and his Soul was woven in the Pattern. All that was needed was a certain threshold of Chaos and Unbelief for certain people (highly skilled channelers, who were already 'ripe for the Shadows pluckin' like Mierin) to be able to sense that force. Shai'tan is -literally- Nothing without it. Order and Belief strengten the Pattern. It's only logic that Chaos and Unbelief (something Elan Morin provided enough of through his nihilistic writing!!) strenghten the Dark Counterpart of Creation.

 

LTT was born... and 400 years after, Shai'tans powerbase -mostly through Elan Morins books and influence- became big enough for Shai'tan to be sensed. That's all.

 

Well... that's my take.

I hope you like the explanation.

 

Cheers,

Mik

[WhiskyJack]

Destroying "wheel" is going to destroy "the universe" and people and world with it but DO will survive. It cannot be "destroyed".

[mjasghar786]

Sorry but no

The dragon has been born lots of times

The idea that ltt being born was some seed of the shadow … I think you are so tied to your idea your finding things that aren't there

For those thinking the TP can't hold the do should look up exalted rpg and the malfeans

These were primordials so powerful the only way to imprison them was to get them to swear on their own names - they couldn't break the oath without destroying the essence of themselves

So the dark one would be folded in on himself and it would require someone to drill into him to get him out ie the bore

Btw it has been said the TP can be accessed with the do approval - my guess is a circle with Moridin but the one in charge is not Moridin maybe using domination band

[Kestrel]

Destroying "wheel" is going to destroy "the universe" and people and world with it but DO will survive. It cannot be "destroyed".

Perhaps the Wheel will not be destroyed. Perhaps it will get knocked off its axis and stop turning, converting circular time to linear time.

 

Or perhaps the wheel will continue turning, but the angle (course) of its rotation will be shifted enough to radically change the future.

[mauifranko78]

Mik is on the right track. Question is, how much of real world human existence does Jordan include in the 7 Ages.

 

And of our existence, how many Ages does that make up. Prehistoric human existence would certainly have to be a separate age from our current civilization Age. Yet, how would we get from a post-sealing the bore world of rediscovered channeling, technology, white tower, black tower, seanchan, to a nomadic, zero technology human existence... So that we can then rediscover fire, farming, cities, civilization itself... In the Age following Randland, is there yet another war that wipes out all technology, all channeling, and leaves just Aviendha's future of the Aiel. Who then wander their way out of the desert to become that nomadic early human existence??

 

Nobody seems to talk about our prior age and how that fits into the WoT, if it truly fits at all for Jordan's world. Our age is confirmed to exist, so one would think an age prior to ours in the real world would also have to be an age.

[mauifranko78]

Destroying "wheel" is going to destroy "the universe" and people and world with it but DO will survive. It cannot be "destroyed".

Perhaps the Wheel will not be destroyed. Perhaps it will get knocked off its axis and stop turning, converting circular time to linear time.

 

Or perhaps the wheel will continue turning, but the angle (course) of its rotation will be shifted enough to radically change the future.

 

Time is always linear in WoT. The pattern however is what is repeating.

[TootThatHorn]

This thread makes me desperately need some migraine medication lol. I've had one idea as to how Rand has a chance to end the fight against the DO once and for all. It could take him remaking the DO's prison from the inside. Essentially he would remove his soul from the pattern, depositing it in the DO's void to forever hinder the DO from access to the pattern. Also, in this sense he is not allowing his soul to die, so it can never be respun out to fight the dark one again. A bit of a not quite paradox that keeps the DO from ever getting close enough to escaping.

[MarkDiLillo]

The fundamental and most important detail in the series is that BOTH sides are in error. Rand and Ishamael/Moridin are equally flawed in their understanding. Note how they BOTH think that they can win. Note how Rand believes he can destroy the Dark One and win and likewise Moridin believes that he can end all of time and win. THIS is the error and this is what's wrong. We are all sitting back and assuming that Moridin is correct here - we are actually forced to assume this so that there is a sense of danger and purpose in the series. This is going to end up being false (yet true enough to give the sense of purpose and danger in the series meaning).

 

The realization that time is circular and not linear is what is going to end the series. The realization that neither side can win will be the ultimate understanding and its going to be what ends everything. Fortunately, that realization itself isn't going to be the end of the books because there has to be some type of physical "win" occuring that solves the Dark One problem in Randland, but the realization is going to be very key to accomplishing this win IMO.

[BNICK1026]

I think with the entire idea of the time being cyclical that Rand/LTT has to actually repair the bore and not just cover it up, so that in the next AoL it can be opened again.

[pamela]

EDIT to add: Mik,I like the idea of Rand remembering the light, bringing the second dawn, but I'm not sure that Rands soul is the purest soul, the taint drove him to do some pretty cruel stuff. Tricky one, he is the chosen one (although it may be me rejecting it, because I want and to somehow live again with Myn, Avi and Elayne - and yes I know it's not going to happen, but I can dream.

I specifically mentioned the Dragon, Lews Therin Telamon, that will finally make amends and gets his well deserved final death he so often desired.

I'm pretty sure Rand -through something Fain does- will surive the ordeal. Rand will show up again after a Night that lasted three full days in hours in the Real World. I'm not sure how it's counted, but it's counted some way, because there won't be a dawning sun during those days. (Since time flows differently in Tar...I'm sure to Rand the battle will feel like an eternity, but it could only be seconds in Tar. RAFO, I guess)

 

Then -when Lews Therin sacrifices himself- Rand will show up again, for is he not called 'he who comes with the (second) Dawn'...? :)

 

Throughout the whole series, Ishamael was always after Lews Therin ("I win again, Lews Therin!")

Throughout the whole series, Fain was always after Rand ("It's never over, Al'Thor!")

 

Rand will survive, maybe through having his mind bonded to so many living people.. or maybe due to Fain wanting Al'Thor for himself... but probably a combination of those factors.

I'm not sure how, but it feels right.

 

If you remember, I love your aMoL spoiler :), but with this point I don't agree. I'd love to see Rand come with the dawn after embracing Death, but he and LTT are not separate, there's only one soul. If LTT's soul is sacrificed, so is Rand's, and they both die.

 

(Maybe all Rand needs to do is to embrace Death indeed - he should simply give Moridin a solid hug and everything will be alright ;)

[Wolf505]

Sorry but no

The dragon has been born lots of times

The idea that ltt being born was some seed of the shadow … I think you are so tied to your idea your finding things that aren't there

For those thinking the TP can't hold the do should look up exalted rpg and the malfeans

These were primordials so powerful the only way to imprison them was to get them to swear on their own names - they couldn't break the oath without destroying the essence of themselves

So the dark one would be folded in on himself and it would require someone to drill into him to get him out ie the bore

Btw it has been said the TP can be accessed with the do approval - my guess is a circle with Moridin but the one in charge is not Moridin maybe using domination band

 

Man I love Exalted. Best pen and paper epic fantasy RPG ever made.

[Mik]

Sorry but no

The dragon has been born lots of times

The idea that ltt being born was some seed of the shadow … I think you are so tied to your idea your finding things that aren't there

Exactly the opposite actually; the idea's are born by tying together information that comes straight from just the WoT books; the idea's come from the books as I read them. Not the other way around.

As you can see from my posts up in this thread, all I did some years ago, was tie sayings, prophesy & AoL history together -all from the books- that make sense. *shrugs*

If you re-read my previous post in this thread, I already answered your concern about 'the Dragon being born lots of times', wich is fine. No problem.

 

 

I think with the entire idea of the time being cyclical that Rand/LTT has to actually repair the bore and not just cover it up, so that in the next AoL it can be opened again.

Yup! I like your avatar lots by the way. If you will but let me tie that string to you, I will be that Demonic Tutor. Let me plant just a tiny seed of doubt... I think your opinion on the repair of the Bore fit well with how I envision the Last Day is won. Lend me your ear, Deacon....and I will tutor you in how the Warp & Woof of the Pattern are really spun. *evil grin*

 

(off-topic sidenote: I loved that Magic card back in revised)

 

 

EDIT to add: Mik,I like the idea of Rand remembering the light, bringing the second dawn, but I'm not sure that Rands soul is the purest soul, the taint drove him to do some pretty cruel stuff. Tricky one, he is the chosen one (although it may be me rejecting it, because I want and to somehow live again with Myn, Avi and Elayne - and yes I know it's not going to happen, but I can dream.

I specifically mentioned the Dragon, Lews Therin Telamon, that will finally make amends and gets his well deserved final death he so often desired.

I'm pretty sure Rand -through something Fain does- will surive the ordeal. Rand will show up again after a Night that lasted three full days in hours in the Real World. I'm not sure how it's counted, but it's counted some way, because there won't be a dawning sun during those days. (Since time flows differently in Tar...I'm sure to Rand the battle will feel like an eternity, but it could only be seconds in Tar. RAFO, I guess)

 

Then -when Lews Therin sacrifices himself- Rand will show up again, for is he not called 'he who comes with the (second) Dawn'...? :)

 

Throughout the whole series, Ishamael was always after Lews Therin ("I win again, Lews Therin!")

Throughout the whole series, Fain was always after Rand ("It's never over, Al'Thor!")

 

Rand will survive, maybe through having his mind bonded to so many living people.. or maybe due to Fain wanting Al'Thor for himself... but probably a combination of those factors.

I'm not sure how, but it feels right.

 

If you remember, I love your aMoL spoiler :), but with this point I don't agree. I'd love to see Rand come with the dawn after embracing Death, but he and LTT are not separate, there's only one soul. If LTT's soul is sacrificed, so is Rand's, and they both die.

 

(Maybe all Rand needs to do is to embrace Death indeed - he should simply give Moridin a solid hug and everything will be alright ;)

Iiii...don't remember, actually (doh..) Got a link for me?

 

About your disagreement with Rand surviving; Rand & LTT were 'not two men and never had been'. That is totally correct; they are one man, with one Soul (the Dragon Soul), one body (Rand's body he was born with on Dragonmount) and two, distinct, living Minds (one a clean sheet -Rand's- when he was born on Dragonmount, one the self-trapped Mind of LTT that was finally released of it's self made mindtrap during VoG).

 

In essence, the Last Battle how I envision it, is a battle of the Mind (in Tar where Thought is Matter and @ the Bore where reality is but clay to Shai'tan).

The Dragon -that is one with the land and the strongest Ta'veren and thereby tied to all of Creation- will square of against the Nae'Blis -a creature tied to literally Nothingness-. The way I see it, when Rand and Lews somehow seperate their Minds in a place where Thought is like Matter (we saw the start of something like this, I think when Ishy fought Rand in Tar in the Stone @ the end of TDR), Lews will sacrifice his Soul. Rand's Mind and Body will just need another Soul....

Not that hard to find when there is one around that I think is literally tied to Nothing anyway! Especially when Lews Therin manages to 'embrace death', the Soul of the one who Betrayed all Hope with that Soul (by giving it to Shai'tan) will be dead.

My educated guess is, that -somehow- Rand will end up surviving with Elan Morin's cleansed Soul.

 

(sidenote: I dislike the Body-swap... but I'd really understand a Soul-swap ;P)

 

Maybe Fain has a part to play there, I just don't know.

 

I think I figured it out too much as it is.. :P

 

Anyway, I think that RJ wants the hero in his story to have a decent shot at the life he really deserves after going through what Rand went through;

Rand will get his shot at being a loving husband to Min and a decent sheepherder with just one hand.

 

Mik is on the right track.

Yay! *marks another Soul for harvesting later*

[MarkDiLillo]

Nah Rand's gonna be toast at the end. Look up the funeral quote about RJ. That was pretty clearly originally written with Rand in mind and the end of the book in mind.

 

He will die a peaceful and serene death with the understanding that he's going back to TAR and will live again though. No chance that it will be a bleak ending.

[pamela]

Sorry but no

The dragon has been born lots of times

The idea that ltt being born was some seed of the shadow … I think you are so tied to your idea your finding things that aren't there

Exactly the opposite actually; the idea's are born by tying together information that comes straight from just the WoT books; the idea's come from the books as I read them. Not the other way around.

As you can see from my posts up in this thread, all I did some years ago, was tie sayings, prophesy & AoL history together -all from the books- that make sense. *shrugs*

If you re-read my previous post in this thread, I already answered your concern about 'the Dragon being born lots of times', wich is fine. No problem.

 

 

I think with the entire idea of the time being cyclical that Rand/LTT has to actually repair the bore and not just cover it up, so that in the next AoL it can be opened again.

Yup! I like your avatar lots by the way. If you will but let me tie that string to you, I will be that Demonic Tutor. Let me plant just a tiny seed of doubt... I think your opinion on the repair of the Bore fit well with how I envision the Last Day is won. Lend me your ear, Deacon....and I will tutor you in how the Warp & Woof of the Pattern are really spun. *evil grin*

 

(off-topic sidenote: I loved that Magic card back in revised)

 

 

EDIT to add: Mik,I like the idea of Rand remembering the light, bringing the second dawn, but I'm not sure that Rands soul is the purest soul, the taint drove him to do some pretty cruel stuff. Tricky one, he is the chosen one (although it may be me rejecting it, because I want and to somehow live again with Myn, Avi and Elayne - and yes I know it's not going to happen, but I can dream.

I specifically mentioned the Dragon, Lews Therin Telamon, that will finally make amends and gets his well deserved final death he so often desired.

I'm pretty sure Rand -through something Fain does- will surive the ordeal. Rand will show up again after a Night that lasted three full days in hours in the Real World. I'm not sure how it's counted, but it's counted some way, because there won't be a dawning sun during those days. (Since time flows differently in Tar...I'm sure to Rand the battle will feel like an eternity, but it could only be seconds in Tar. RAFO, I guess)

 

Then -when Lews Therin sacrifices himself- Rand will show up again, for is he not called 'he who comes with the (second) Dawn'...? :)

 

Throughout the whole series, Ishamael was always after Lews Therin ("I win again, Lews Therin!")

Throughout the whole series, Fain was always after Rand ("It's never over, Al'Thor!")

 

Rand will survive, maybe through having his mind bonded to so many living people.. or maybe due to Fain wanting Al'Thor for himself... but probably a combination of those factors.

I'm not sure how, but it feels right.

 

If you remember, I love your aMoL spoiler :), but with this point I don't agree. I'd love to see Rand come with the dawn after embracing Death, but he and LTT are not separate, there's only one soul. If LTT's soul is sacrificed, so is Rand's, and they both die.

 

(Maybe all Rand needs to do is to embrace Death indeed - he should simply give Moridin a solid hug and everything will be alright ;)

Iiii...don't remember, actually (doh..) Got a link for me?

 

About your disagreement with Rand surviving; Rand & LTT were 'not two men and never had been'. That is totally correct; they are one man, with one Soul (the Dragon Soul), one body (Rand's body he was born with on Dragonmount) and two, distinct, living Minds (one a clean sheet -Rand's- when he was born on Dragonmount, one the self-trapped Mind of LTT that was finally released of it's self made mindtrap during VoG).

 

In essence, the Last Battle how I envision it, is a battle of the Mind (in Tar where Thought is Matter and @ the Bore where reality is but clay to Shai'tan).

The Dragon -that is one with the land and the strongest Ta'veren and thereby tied to all of Creation- will square of against the Nae'Blis -a creature tied to literally Nothingness-. The way I see it, when Rand and Lews somehow seperate their Minds in a place where Thought is like Matter (we saw the start of something like this, I think when Ishy fought Rand in Tar in the Stone @ the end of TDR), Lews will sacrifice his Soul. Rand's Mind and Body will just need another Soul....

Not that hard to find when there is one around that I think is literally tied to Nothing anyway! Especially when Lews Therin manages to 'embrace death', the Soul of the one who Betrayed all Hope with that Soul (by giving it to Shai'tan) will be dead.

My educated guess is, that -somehow- Rand will end up surviving with Elan Morin's cleansed Soul.

 

(sidenote: I dislike the Body-swap... but I'd really understand a Soul-swap ;P)

 

Maybe Fain has a part to play there, I just don't know.

 

I think I figured it out too much as it is.. :P

 

Anyway, I think that RJ wants the hero in his story to have a decent shot at the life he really deserves after going through what Rand went through;

Rand will get his shot at being a loving husband to Min and a decent sheepherder with just one hand.

 

Mik is on the right track.

Yay! *marks another Soul for harvesting later*

 

Nevermind, it was you who gave the link and I said that reading your theory felt like reading a spoiler :)

Although I can see your point and of course there are many unpredictable factors, still I think this kind of separation is just going too far. If LTT's soul goes away = Rand's soul goes away and he's dead, there can be no moment of emptyness, like the body with the mind only - everything (embracing Death and soul-swap) would have to happen simultaneously... I think that with Moridin's or anyone else's soul Rand just wouldn't be Rand anymore. And here we could discuss what makes someone a different person - the mind or the soul (I don't know if Jordan's "soul" is actually a soul or is it a "spirit", which is yet another thing ), but I'm not sure if this is a good idea... Anyway, In Randland a person reborn is not the same person it was in a past life (RJ said so), though the soul is the same. You seem to assume that Rand's mind would make him stay himself, Rand, despite the different soul. Are the souls like tabula rasa then and one can swap them, causing no differences? It doesn't feel right.

 

... Ok, I don't have time to think thoroughly about it now :)

[ArveduiEreinion]

Here's my theory, based on the Aelfinn answer to Rand's question:

 

Question: "How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

Answer: "The north and east must be as one. The west and south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

I always thought that "The two must be as one" referred to the preceding "north and east must be as one" etc. I'm now of a mind that it refers to something else. We know that the evil of Shadar Logoth beats in counter-time to the Dark One's taint on saidin. That is, the two forces repel one another. We also know that the last time Lews Therin attempted to reseal the bore he managed to trap the Forsaken in the patch.

 

So, my thought is that Padan Fain will attempt to kill Rand near the Lake of Fire. Rand will occupy the Dark One's attention thus allowing Fain to get close (that or his evil will simply repulse the Dark One's control over matter in his immediate vacinity). Rand will accept the True Power but use it against Ishamael and/or Shaidar Haran. The Dark One won't interfere because he thinks he has won. After some kind of struggle with Moridin, Rand will use saidin and saidar to patch the bore while trapping Fain in the patch. Fain or Moridin will strike a mortal blow against Rand thus causing his eventual death. He won't kill the Dark One but he will create a seal that repulses the Dark One's energy. This may be a more "permanent" solution in that, when the Wheel turns again, and the same thinness is detected in the Pattern, the Dark One's energy might not be sensed. A future Mierin/Beidomon (I don't mean that literally) might be tempted to create a bore anyway but the chances might be less given an immediate detection of foulness/evil.

 

The "two must be as one" refers to Fain and the Dark One.

[BFG]

I'm not sure of the mechanics of everything, but the normal solution to the problem doesn't involve Fain, because he's not normally around (I think RJ is quoted that he's unique to this age). Maybe if Fain is involved Rand has a chance to change the pattern, but I'd only give it 50:50 odds.

[ArveduiEreinion]

I'm not sure of the mechanics of everything, but the normal solution to the problem doesn't involve Fain, because he's not normally around (I think RJ is quoted that he's unique to this age). Maybe if Fain is involved Rand has a chance to change the pattern, but I'd only give it 50:50 odds.

 

That is what I think Rand hinted at when he said a "permanent" solution. He knows, from Herid Fel etc, that this is not the Last Battle, it is a Last Battle. RJ said that Fain was a wildcard as far as the weave of this Age's pattern was concerned (e.g. he's not normally around.) That makes me think that Rand is considering how he can use Fain. He knows that he has to patch/re-weave the Dark One's prison. He also knows that someone will attempt to make a Bore into that prison in a future age. He can't stop that but he can provide a warning that wouldn't normally exist.

[mjasghar786]

Yeh but RJ also said that apart from fain this was just another 3rd age ie nothing's gonna change the overall cycle maybe the best we'll have is a but less death and chaos going into the next age

After all if I read RJ correctly there were / will be 3rd ages when the dragon loses or turns : imagine dark rand not caring about collateral damage as if he was a us army commander

[ArveduiEreinion]

That's why I think Fain would serve as a warning, not a fool-proof method of sealing the Dark One away from the world. Remember, Lanfear/Beidomon wanted to tap an unknown energy source that they speculated could be wielded by male and female channelers without distinction. What if, instead of sensing an energy source, a future researcher detected something vile/evil. There is no way to stop a curious person from making a bore to research the evil etc but you just might get them to think twice about doing so. Lanfear and Beidomon drilled the Bore presumably because they didn't know any better.

[Guest Jacob Hagins]

I've actually had the same theory for a few years now. Rand will break the Wheel of Time. Or Rand will release the Dark One into the world and then Balefire him. There are several reasons for this:

 

Robert Jordan stated in an interview (can't find it now) that he preferred the idea of a linear timeline to a circular one, that in a linear timeline people must move on, but in a circular one, you can always try again.

 

The LAST battle. Part of that makes me really think that it is The LAST battle. As in final. As in a Last battle to decide the fate of the universe.

 

Moridins ramblings. He talks about how the Wheel falling is inevitable. In fact this is the very reason why he choose to join the "Dark Side"

 

The book seems to me to be pointing that this is THE LAST BATTLE. Especially with Fain being something new, being something special. And the Girls making new discoveries that even the Forsaken didn't know.

 

Rand, or the Dark One, or Moridin, or Demandred or some combination thereof will break the Wheel and create a new world where there is no recycling of souls.

 

"That didn’t mean he had all of the answers. Despite four hundred years of memories nestled in his brain, he still worried about what he had to do. Lews Therin hadn’t known how to seal the Bore. His attempt had led to disaster. The taint, the Breaking, all for an imperfect prison with seals that were now brittle.

One answer kept coming to Rand. A dangerous answer. One that Lews Therin hadn’t considered.

What if the answer wasn’t to seal the Dark One away again? What if the answer, the final answer, was something else? Something more permanent.

Yes, Rand thought to himself for the hundredth time. But is it possible?"

 

The answer isn't to seal the Dark One away again, BUT TO KILL HIM, or make it impossible for him to ever touch the pattern again.

Rand reasons that he COULD seal the Dark One away again, but the cycle would continue and he would just have to do it again when this age came again. RAND WANTS IT TO END. Breaking the Wheel is the most dangerous answer he could give. And I'm sure that LTT never thought of it. What if the Answer....THE FINAL ANSWER....That's what Rands looking at here. The Final Answer to end it all.

[ArveduiEreinion]

I'm curious: how does one break the Wheel of Time?

 

Lanfear speculated that, with the Choedan Kal, she and Rand could challenge the Dark One or the Creator. However, this always seemed like an overreach to me. Now, Rand doesn't even have a sa'angreal as powerful as the CK.

 

I get the idea but I don't think it actually makes sense. Rather, I think the section you quoted foreshadows a hope on Rand's part that won't come to fruition.