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muddasssir

Jason's review and Thank you to Team Jordan and BS

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@ John Snow sorry to burst your bubble so to speak, but he has never one in this world or reality as this is the one that really exists. If it had not the world would have been already dead as we know it, also there were supposed to be out riggers with Mat and Tuon, which I guess makes the wholw thing kind of redundant. Therefore, I win again ending will make zero sense in longer term. Having said that you can never discount it completely. Now, how is that about being two faced :wink:

 

I know...but I still think it would've been epic. I suppose I could be satisfied with the GLotD winning, but I don't see that happening either. :sad: *sigh* My perfect endings rarely come true.

:biggrin:

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I believe I'll choose what to respond to, thank you. First, I can appreciate a personal feeling of conclusion inspired by what Jason published. That's more than normal. What it isn't is in any way the first confirmation we got that this is the last book, and that's it's done, and I therefore don't see why anyone had to guess what you meant by that first post. Nor, for that matter, do I think the ending is a valid reason to stop people from speaking their minds. However, and this is a big however, not only do I want the flames to dampen, but I'm actively working to allow that discussion to exist without resulting in flames. As should be evident to anyone who's following my posts.

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How can anyone take jason's reviews seriously after that TOM BS.

 

He's too close to the authors. Hence his reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt. Make up your own mind after reading it.

Edited by Elan Tedronai

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I'll second the thanks to BS and Team Jordan!

 

How literally do people think we should take the reference to Stephen King? Assuming that it's the Dark Tower catastrophe series then that's strong evidence to add to the wheel continuing to turn ending, and not the Last Last Battle theory.

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Indeed many thanks to Sanderson and all of Team Jordan! As for Jason's review, I'd say he seems to be predominately happy with the final result.

 

This series very well could have been left unfinished. I would think that was the worst case scenario in all of this. One thing that feels out of place though, is the seemingly sharp level of dissatisfaction with the efforts of these folks, by people who seem to be vets of this site. This has only become glaringly apparent here in the past few weeks as more AMoL content has been made available. I've read the two books that BS helped complete and all of the Chapters that have been released thus far for AMoL. I only really look at posts in the AMoL spoiler section on these forums, so I'm not saying this as a blanket statement for all of the forum posts, but its really making me question whether or not something is wrong with my ability to know if a book is good. Other than a somewhat disjointed feeling with how all the timelines where outta whack for a little while, I really enjoyed these last couple of books. Maybe its just that I'm not a "rabid" fan or I lack critical eye, I dunno. Either way its kind of a bummer. I hate to think that people are being disappointed.

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I'll second the thanks to BS and Team Jordan!

 

How literally do people think we should take the reference to Stephen King? Assuming that it's the Dark Tower catastrophe series then that's strong evidence to add to the wheel continuing to turn ending, and not the Last Last Battle theory.

I win again Lewis Therin. *flicker*

That's the real ending. /itisknown

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Over the next few months, it is wonderful just to sit back and appreciate the feeling and knowledge that the saga will be concluded. After nearly 3 decades, it will truly come to an end. Just and overwhelming feeling I would love to absorb slowly and enjoy.

 

The book will be compact and to the point. It will close as many open ends as possible; and it will seem blunt compared to RJ's style. But that is much better than waiting another couple of years (or more) for a more detailed closure.

 

WOT will never be truly complete since RJ didn't write it 100%. Nothing is perfect; C'est la vie!

Edited by Theodril

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Maybe its just that I'm not a "rabid" fan or I lack critical eye, I dunno. Either way its kind of a bummer. I hate to think that people are being disappointed.

 

No matter who took up the pen people would have been disappointed. Even if RJ was alive not everyone would have appreciated the ending of the series.

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Maybe its just that I'm not a "rabid" fan or I lack critical eye, I dunno. Either way its kind of a bummer. I hate to think that people are being disappointed.

 

No matter who took up the pen people would have been disappointed. Even if RJ was alive not everyone would have appreciated the ending of the series.

 

+1

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Maybe its just that I'm not a "rabid" fan or I lack critical eye, I dunno. Either way its kind of a bummer. I hate to think that people are being disappointed.

 

No matter who took up the pen people would have been disappointed. Even if RJ was alive not everyone would have appreciated the ending of the series.

 

+1

+2

And even then, we'd listen to what they have to say. As we will now.

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Well thank you people for support and point of story is that I have just joined the damned. I still have not seen a single post from the other old grouches like me lol, but I guess it is a beginning.

 

 

 

PS: do not quote there are no beginning or ending to the turning of wheel lol

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Maybe its just that I'm not a "rabid" fan or I lack critical eye, I dunno. Either way its kind of a bummer. I hate to think that people are being disappointed.

 

No matter who took up the pen people would have been disappointed. Even if RJ was alive not everyone would have appreciated the ending of the series.

 

+1

+2

And even then, we'd listen to what they have to say. As we will now.

 

+3

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How can anyone take jason's reviews seriously after that TOM BS.

What exactly do you mean?

 

His review of TOM was an absolute joke. Then i have heard he's quite close to the author's families both jordan and sanderson. Then it makes sense.

 

That's why i am taking his review of amol with a pinch of salt

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His review of TOM was an absolute joke. Then i have heard he's quite close to the author's families both jordan and sanderson. Then it makes sense.

 

That's why i am taking his review of amol with a pinch of salt

I think some perspective is in order. Jason's connections to TeamJ comes only from his contribution to the fandom, along the years, which made DM one of the main places online where people meet to discuss tWoT. RJ used to host a blog on DM, and he became familiar with Jason, but to the best of my knowledge Jason has never been to RJ's house before the funeral. Nor does Jason have any special familiarity with Brandon beyond what comes of being the owner of DM.

 

It's important to know that this isn't Jason's job. DM is a non-profit, meaning that no one makes his living from running it. Whatever revenue is generated from ads on the site, and our store, goes to maintaining DM, an occasional upgrade to our hardware, and perhaps funding JordanCon (I'm really not sure about that last one, so don't take my word for it; the point is -- nothing goes into anybody's pocket).

 

Now, as a representative-of-sorts of the fandom to TeamJ, it's natural if Jason feels some obligation to be positive in his feedback on the books (I wouldn't presume to say that he does, in fact, feel that way, but merely offer my perspective on how I might feel were I in his place). I personally have found his reviews a bit overexcited in the past, but I never considered that they're anything but honest. You also need to keep in mind: this is his initial reaction, before he had the chance to reread the book a couple of times; that could be a major factor in the disparity between his chronicled reviews and what some of us now think about some of these books.

Edited by yoniy0

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You also need to keep in mind: this is his initial reaction, before he had the chance to reread the book a couple of times; that could be a major factor in the disparity between his chronicled reviews and what some of us now think about some of these books.

 

Solid point, one needs only to look at the widespread positive reaction to TGS(and the subsequent drop after rereads) to understand how true this can be.

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I think some perspective is in order. Jason's connections to TeamJ comes only from his contribution to the fandom, along the years, which made DM one of the main places online where people meet to discuss tWoT. RJ used to host a blog on DM, and he became familiar with Jason, but to the best of my knowledge Jason has never been to RJ's house before the funeral. Nor does Jason have any special familiarity with Brandon beyond what comes of being the owner of DM.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Jason also a beta reader for all three of Brandon's books? And from my admittedly foggy memory of the ToM review incident where an early draft was accidentally made public, one of the reasons the review wasn't ready for publication was that it hadn't yet been submitted to Team Jordan for approval. Furthermore, Jason's AMoL review was posted on Tor.com.

 

Point being, it's not unreasonable for fans to think Jason might not be the most objective reviewer considering he helped Brandon write the books. And even if Team Jordan only checked his reviews for spoilers, not content, it might be difficult for a reviewer to slam RJ's final novel knowing his widow was going to read it and the publisher post it on their web site.

 

Even as someone who's been pretty critical of Brandon's work on WoT and Harriet's editing, if I knew Harriet was going to read a review I wrote of her late husband's last book, I don't know how critical I would have made that review. So if Jason *had* written a more positive review so as not to hurt Harriet's feelings, I wouldn't have blamed him for that.

 

At this point, though, it's pretty much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for Jason. His reviews—even the CoT one—have always been so full of praise, if he were to add more criticism now, people would think the book has to be REALLY bad if even Jason criticized it.

Edited by sleepinghour

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Jason (as well as some other prominent members of the fandom) was indeed chosen as beta-reader for TGS, ToM and AMoL. The reason, as I understand it, was that -- unlike RJ -- Brandon didn't have anyone he could trust WoT material to that wasn't already part of the production team (one can't beta-read one's own work product). And, just as you say, the reviews are subject to approval before posting (if nothing else, beta-readers are usually compelled to sign a non-disclosure).

 

However, Jason isn't employed by Tor to write a review, like Liegh is for example. He consented to write them, and there's a difference there. You better believe Harriet would end up reading anything he'd publish about the book whenever he did it, so yes -- he has to be polite. But that doesn't necessitate disingenuousness, I don't think.

 

All I want to say is, there's no conflict of interests here. Jason writes these reviews because he's been a fan for a long time, and among the most active of them. This isn't like someone promoting their close friend's product; DM stands nothing to gain from AMoL being successful (although, I'm sure every fan of the series would like for RJ's legacy to be handled in a good way).

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I agree with sleepinghour and her reasoning 100%. I can't see how anyone in Jason's position could be expected to be fully objective. I also wonder who the other beta readers were. I understand the choice of Jason but I would expect BS would also want some real detail junkies like terez or luckers who really know the books inside out and would be much better at finding mistakes which are plentiful in both tGS and especially TOM. I don't think Jason falls into that category, does he?

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I also wonder who the other beta readers were. I understand the choice of Jason but I would expect BS would also want some real detail junkies like terez or luckers who really know the books inside out and would be much better at finding mistakes which are plentiful in both tGS and especially TOM. I don't think Jason falls into that category, does he?

 

As far as I know, most of the beta readers were admins of various WoT sites. Jason (and Jennifer Liang?) from DM, Melissa Craib of TarValon.net, Matt Hatch of Theoryland, Linda Taglieri of 13th Depository, and Bob Kluttz of Encyclopaedia WoT. All of whom have done great things for fandom, and I absolutely do not begrudge them any reward for their contributions. But as you say, an admin isn't necessarily more detail-oriented or knowledgeable about the series than any other fan. That's why I think Team Jordan should also have included people like Steven Cooper to keep an eye on the timeline and some HCFFs like Terez to look for continuity mistakes. As it is...there's a lot of continuity errors in the books, some of which (like the T'A'R battle) are too major to be corrected without rewriting entire chapters. And AMoL seems like it's going to have just as many issues judging by the released chapters.

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Keep in mind, a beta-reader has to keep what he knows for himself for a considerable time. That would be very difficult for someone like Terez and Luckers, who are quite active on the boards. In that regard, site owners and Con organizers are more suited for it. Perhaps more importantly, it would need to be someone TeamJ know and trust.

 

herid, I agree that Jason is in a delicate position. I just think one can keep true to one's real estimate of the books and still pay one's respects to Harriet. The position you're in would tend to color your perception, though, and that's a real issue I don't mind acknowledging.

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