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That relieved feeling ...

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Of course we all have our favorite among the Two Rivers gang that we can easily root for without too much worrying that they're secretly one of the Chosen or some deceitful darkfriend ... but we probably all have at least a couple characters we enjoy from the series that we don't know for sure and pray each time we read that it doesn't get revealed that they're really Morridin or someone like that.

 

My favorite secondary character has always been Talmanes. The way his character works with Mat's has always been very entertaining to me. There's never been any reason to believe he was anything but Mat's right hand man, but you never know with this series. And then I buy the Prologue and am rewarded with what I can only assume other people hope for their favorite characters - to find out for sure that they're not really working for the DO. Oh, and being a pure bad @$$ for the entire Prologue doesn't hurt either ;)

 

Who are your favorites that you are still biting your nails to find out whether they are who they claim to be? Which characters have let you down in the past?

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Aram. An incredible missed opportunity, IMO. Had the chance to lead to a meaningful discussion of pacifism, family obligations, cultural identity and courage. Instead, ended up a pointless, rabid dog. And Sanderson can't be blamed for it.

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I thought Aram had potential as well and was disappointed the way he fizzled out.

 

Although you could take his story as the following message: You have to have a balanced life - you must be reluctant and yet ready to fight when necessary or else the weight of it could overtake you.

 

Either way, I liked Aram at the start and his story just didn't last long enough or go in the direction I thought it could.

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I always thought Aram was to be used as a tool to show Perrin what happens when he refuses to lead his people. They find something else to believe in and become lost, etc. I had assumed RJ was going to show this with a discussion between Perrin/Faile or Perrin/Elyas - but it never happened. We'll never know if it was beacause BS took over and there weren't enough notes or if maybe that just wasn't the plan after all.

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I was with Barid - I was worried about Logain - but only up until KoD. When he showed up at Algarin's Manor, he not only provided the means for them to defeat the trolloc horde (extra AM and AS), but more importanly he was clearly trying to get Rand to understand how dangerous Taim is and how urgent it is for Rand to take care of him. <A quick aside - I am now 99% that it was Taim that ordered the Trollocs to attack Rand there>.

 

Now the character I'm most worried about is Alanna. Exactly how did she leave the Stone of Tear without the other AS kowing? Since the Maidens didn't see her leave by conventional means, and Bera, Rafela and Sarene didn't feel her channel enough to make a gateway... On top of that, Alanna would have felt the 'goodness' coming from her bond with Rand (just as Min did prior to him returning to the Stone after Veins of Gold). I see two main possible explanations:

 

- She is a darkfriend, and was taken out of the stone by a gateway made from Saidin (darkfriend AM?) - or worse, the TP. If this is the case, then I also have to strongly consider that the disguised (Mask of Mirrors) character in AMOL prologue that sets Isam on the mission to kill Rand is Alanna.

 

- My personal hope is that it was Logain that came and got Alanna from the Stone in order for Logain to have knowledge of Rand's location. It wouldn't be perfect information, but having a general idea of the DR's whereabouts would be better than having none at all. This would be very important if he is planning an assault on the BT like most of us think he is.

 

 

Regarding Aram:

I always thought Aram was to be used as a tool to show Perrin what happens when he refuses to lead his people. They find something else to believe in and become lost, etc. I had assumed RJ was going to show this with a discussion between Perrin/Faile or Perrin/Elyas - but it never happened. We'll never know if it was beacause BS took over and there weren't enough notes or if maybe that just wasn't the plan after all.

 

I always thought that Aram's purpose in the series was to show that even someone raised to believe the Way of the Leaf could come to the realization that there are things worth fighting for. Unfortunately, the pitfall that wasn't avoided with Aram was that once he took the path to become violent, he also fell into the trap of becoming a zealot, and was easily manipulated by Masema.

Edited by 2RiversFan

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<A quick aside - I am now 99% that it was Taim that ordered the Trollocs to attack Rand there>.

................

- My personal hope is that it was Logain that came and got Alanna from the Stone in order for Logain to have knowledge of Rand's location. It wouldn't be perfect information, but having a general idea of the DR's whereabouts would be better than having none at all. This would be very important if he is planning an assault on the BT like most of us think he is.

 

Taim.

When all those discussions came around about how he could just be a non DF bad guy, I got a little worried. To my mind he was always Chosen material and I hated the thought that he might turn out to be even a little wimpy.

 

I'm with you on the Algarin manor attack, I think. (say 95%)

I always suspected him of being Isam's mystery patron in Far Madding too, but couldn't figure out how he'd pull it off. And now, having read the prologue, I think he's still trying to get Rand killed, and using Isam again.

 

I like the idea of Logain getting Alanna out of Tear - maybe he had a letter from Verin too?

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Some awesome secondary characters:

- al'Lan Mandragoran

- Thom Merrilin

- Rhuarc and Bael

- Davram Bashere

- Rodel Ituralde

- Gareth Bryne

- Dobraine and Darlin

- Amys, Melaine and Bair

- Sulin and the maidens that bathed and scrubbed Rand in Cairhien

 

The list goes on and on.

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Pretty sure that Logain's glory is going to come during the time Rand is dead for 3 days. Logain is going to step up and be the face of the hero that saves the world. He is basically going to lead the Light into battle against the shadow and take care of business and steal all the credit (probably will deserve a lot of it). Rands death is going to more or less spur the world into action and into acting together and then his return will be brief and triumphant before he leaves/dies again.

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Aram. An incredible missed opportunity, IMO. Had the chance to lead to a meaningful discussion of pacifism, family obligations, cultural identity and courage. Instead, ended up a pointless, rabid dog. And Sanderson can't be blamed for it.

 

I just reread his death last night for the first time in years. I never liked the character but I was surprised at how he was just taken out. HAHA!! It was almost like, "Well, this is a plot line that's going nowhere, bye!"

 

 

As for characters I don't want to be DFs.... I don't know if I've ever thought that (I hope he's not a DF), but I really like Dobraine, Talmanes, Bashere and Gareth Bryne... Grady, I like Grady. I'd be upset if one of them ended up being a DF.

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And it seems that Logain will take care of the newly-anointed Chosen. Taim's death will most likely be at Logain's hands (their strength in the power is probably the same level).

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Yeah, I'm guessing that Logain takes down Taim and leads the Black Tower -- his prophecized glory (by way of Min). Taim fancied himself the Dragon Reborn as well, and kept up with the dragons on his coatsleeves and whatnot. A False Dragon might very well be considered a Dragon without the substance and the imagery of a paper dragon bursting apart might be apt.

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Pretty sure that Logain's glory is going to come during the time Rand is dead for 3 days. Logain is going to step up and be the face of the hero that saves the world. He is basically going to lead the Light into battle against the shadow and take care of business and steal all the credit (probably will deserve a lot of it). Rands death is going to more or less spur the world into action and into acting together and then his return will be brief and triumphant before he leaves/dies again.

 

since when does Rand die for three days???

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Sorilea. I liked her since that scene in LoC where they found out Rand was taken. But since the whole Domination Band thing, there's a cloud of suspicion over her.

 

As for who's been somewhat disappointing, I'd have to say Narishma. For someone who gets mentioned in the prophecies, and given whom he's named after, I sort of expected more, and I had hoped that he'd be the one to take down Aran'gar. (Aran'gar was pretty damn disappointing, too.) Now he's hardly ever mentioned.

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Pretty sure that Logain's glory is going to come during the time Rand is dead for 3 days. Logain is going to step up and be the face of the hero that saves the world. He is basically going to lead the Light into battle against the shadow and take care of business and steal all the credit (probably will deserve a lot of it). Rands death is going to more or less spur the world into action and into acting together and then his return will be brief and triumphant before he leaves/dies again.

 

since when does Rand die for three days???

 

It's speculation based on clues and hints.

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Pretty sure that Logain's glory is going to come during the time Rand is dead for 3 days. Logain is going to step up and be the face of the hero that saves the world. He is basically going to lead the Light into battle against the shadow and take care of business and steal all the credit (probably will deserve a lot of it). Rands death is going to more or less spur the world into action and into acting together and then his return will be brief and triumphant before he leaves/dies again.

 

since when does Rand die for three days???

 

It's speculation based on clues and hints.

 

Can you quote them?

I am curious about this now

 

I knew he was going to die, just not for three days

Edited by Valley of Death

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I'm not buying Taim using Trollocs for an attack.

 

It doesn't sound like his style. He likes to surround himself with power - not as much brute force. I think he basically laid back and put together a "present" of a handful of male channelers for the DO and has just built up that stock since then. This would get him in good right away and allow him to forego all the nasty "lead Trollocs here to do this."

 

I've always liked Davrim Bashere and Loial ... both characters which seem to have had their roles diminished.

 

I hated that Dashiva ended up being dark. RJ did a good job of working him into your confidence with having Dashiva always there at Rand's side and seemingly always having his back. That's when I started cautiously liking any non-main characters :)

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Pretty sure that Logain's glory is going to come during the time Rand is dead for 3 days. Logain is going to step up and be the face of the hero that saves the world. He is basically going to lead the Light into battle against the shadow and take care of business and steal all the credit (probably will deserve a lot of it). Rands death is going to more or less spur the world into action and into acting together and then his return will be brief and triumphant before he leaves/dies again.

 

since when does Rand die for three days???

 

It's speculation based on clues and hints.

 

Can you quote them?

I am curious about this now

 

I knew he was going to die, just not for three days

 

Cant quote off the top of my head, but there is multiple instances in the book where Nynaeve mentions she wont rest til shes healed someone 3 days dead. Someone mentions they wont believe Rand is dead til they sit 3 days with the body. Jesus is a strong Rand parallel for many elements and he died for 3 days before resurrection. There are more, but it is so strongly hinted at that it almost certainly will happen IMO.

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Tsutama Rath. She's just bugnuts and I really hope something comes of it--not necessarily obvious, for instance I'd love if she rallied the Red behind Egwene at some crucial moment despite all expectation to the contrary-- but yeah something was building there....

 

And finally, the big one--the Thirteen Aes Sedai with the borderlanders. I still have suspicions about them, despite them being able to look at Rand, and believe that Brandon wrote in the meeting with the borderlanders in TofM to specifically kill suspicion about them before they do... whatever it is they do. If they do not do anything, after hanging around for so long, so silently, then yes I'll be disapointed.

 

 

I always thought Aram was to be used as a tool to show Perrin what happens when he refuses to lead his people. They find something else to believe in and become lost, etc. I had assumed RJ was going to show this with a discussion between Perrin/Faile or Perrin/Elyas - but it never happened. We'll never know if it was beacause BS took over and there weren't enough notes or if maybe that just wasn't the plan after all.

 

To be frank, I think Aram was just poorly handled by RJ. Read Perrin's PoV post his death in KoD and it's relatively clear Jordan already had him shrugging Aram off.

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Ingtar, Lord, of House Shinowa

 

I know his loyalties and whatnot have long sense been revealed, but when I was reading TGH for the first time, I really liked his character and thought his interaction with Rand and their merry troupe of Shinerians was great. As the story progresses you begin to suspect that this seemingly perfect example of a Shinerian Warrior is the traitor and has given himself over to the Shadow. Yet, in the end I think the man very well may have achieved redemption. Now that I think of it, is this the only Darkfriend we've seen that is redeemed? Did Matt's Aiel girlfriend/assassin DF achieve redemption in her death? Seemed more like she put herself in position to be killed by him, in some half-hearted attempt to fulfill her mandate. Is that a redemption worthy action in its own context?

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Ingtar, Lord, of House Shinowa

 

I know his loyalties and whatnot have long sense been revealed, but when I was reading TGH for the first time, I really liked his character and thought his interaction with Rand and their merry troupe of Shinerians was great. As the story progresses you begin to suspect that this seemingly perfect example of a Shinerian Warrior is the traitor and has given himself over to the Shadow. Yet, in the end I think the man very well may have achieved redemption. Now that I think of it, is this the only Darkfriend we've seen that is redeemed? Did Matt's Aiel girlfriend/assassin DF achieve redemption in her death? Seemed more like she put herself in position to be killed by him, in some half-hearted attempt to fulfill her mandate. Is that a redemption worthy action in its own context?

 

 

I would guess that Verin Sedai will be redeemed, though I don't believe it's spelled out in the books.

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I forgot about Verin. With her I get the feeling that her actions were less about redemption and more about just how the only way she could give Egwene the info was to kill herself and bypass her "dark oaths".

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