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Shara and Isle of Madmen

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Hello was just looking through WOT wiki and came accross some information on these places which are rarely mentioned in the books. did Robert jordan just make these places up to add to the size and scale of his world or are these places still to hold a role in amol? is there any theories on these places. You would think a place the size of shara and population could attract a forsaken whether its for someone like moghedian to go into hiding or to gather an army since the place is huge.

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Graendal had the leaders of Shara as her pets in the Lord of Choas. She did not seem to think the place important although she wanted Sammael to believe she did.

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I doubt the Land of Madmen will play much of a role, it was only introduced in the BWB, it hasn't been in the story so far at all.

 

Shara, I feel, will get at least a mention in aMoL, Shara has actually been discussed and alluded to in the books quite a lot (first the Aiel, then Graendal, in Tear etc...) The last we heard was in KoD, where we see a Sharan merchant.

 

There is trouble in Shara, they have heard of the Dragon being reborn and are stirring. I wouldn't be suprised if we see some sort of action from Sharan armies or emissaries to help out (or fight against) in the LB.

 

Will they play a crucial role? I don't think so not any direct importance. I doubt we will see any major Sharan characters with any special role in aMoL.

 

What I can see happening:

1. Alluded to and mentioned by characters. Mention of Sharan trouble, just like it has been done in the past books.

2. An appearance of Sharan army to fight with or against someone in the LB.

3. A few PoV's from random Sharan civilians/soldiers showing the scope of the Battle.

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I always figured these other areas were mentioned just to give a different perspective on how the power is regarded in other cultures...not necessary but to show that there is more than just how Randland deals with it.

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Just as an aside - I have always found it interesting how the Sharaans situation with female channelers is directly opposed to the Seanchan one - they are totally in control of society in Shara and totally subjugated in Seanchan. And in the middle geographically from our point of view, are the westlands and the waste - where female channelers have long been somewhere in the middle of dominant and subjugated too. Could you imagine how Seanchan ships that sailed west and landed in Shara would be treated upon arrival when the Sharaans understood how they treated female channelers?

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I think Shara is an excellent place for Demandred to have built his army in secret (he admits to having an army). Think about it...lots of channelers, fighters (including perhaps the red-veiled Aiel) that nobody else from Randland is influencing or paying attention to. The resources are ripe for the picking by someone. Surely the Shadow wouldn't be content leaving that jewel behind.

 

 

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I think Shara is an excellent place for Demandred to have built his army in secret (he admits to having an army). Think about it...lots of channelers, fighters (including perhaps the red-veiled Aiel) that nobody else from Randland is influencing or paying attention to. The resources are ripe for the picking by someone. Surely the Shadow wouldn't be content leaving that jewel behind.

I can't see it, especially with how Graendal plunged that nation into civil war by taking both the male and female leaders

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It was stated early on in the books or somewhere - that Randland was the focus of the Last Battle

 

We did hear about Shara when Avi went through the columns

 

and for the life of me I can not recall in KoD a Sharan Merchant - can you let me know a chapter or a clue to where?

Edited by wcbrooks

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It was stated early on in the books or somewhere - that Randland was the focus of the Last Battle

 

We did hear about Shara when Avi went through the columns

 

and for the life of me I can not recall in KoD a Sharan Merchant - can you let me know a chapter or a clue to where?

 

It was an escaped sharan merchant in the tavern just before they go in the stone. He is trying to get someone to invest in a scheme for silk worms. An undercover spy from seanchan then confirms what he is saying is true and Alivia gets all freaked out by the accent. Its a testament to how bad Graendal threw the country into chaos after kidnapping the rulers. We know how tightly they control trade so things must be seriously awry.

Edited by Suttree

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I think they were made because RJ wanted to have the option to do something with it in later books, but then scratched the idea. If you want more information about things like this, I would advice reading the book: "A world of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time". It has great background info about everything in the world.

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Wasn't it discussed that the Isle of Madmen could provide the Shadow (Demandred?) with the pool of male channelers? One can easily imagine they would be desperate enough to join it without hesitation...

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Wasn't it discussed that the Isle of Madmen could provide the Shadow (Demandred?) with the pool of male channelers? One can easily imagine they would be desperate enough to join it without hesitation...

 

Mmm, though that means introducing an entire new culture all in one book (which the Sharan proposition struggles from to). I mean the Aiel Instant Army was a hard swallow and there was plenty of foreshadowing in books 1-3 of their role, and two entire books dedicated more or less just to their introduction into the story.

 

I've suggested in the past that the Isle of Madmen might be where Shadow channelers go to be trained (we know that the Shadow has trained and produced Dreadlords outside of recruits from the other existing channeling organisations). In many ways the whole mythos of that Isle, with the men and women running mad and the violence and so forth does have the sound of a detailed smoke screen to keep prying eyes away, and since the channelers would be from already known cultures it would just be a matter of introducing the enviroment (no greater proposition than introducing Bander Eben was for tGS).

 

I'm not hugely sold on this as a theory, but its a possibility.

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Wasn't it discussed that the Isle of Madmen could provide the Shadow (Demandred?) with the pool of male channelers? One can easily imagine they would be desperate enough to join it without hesitation...

 

Mmm, though that means introducing an entire new culture all in one book (which the Sharan proposition struggles from to). I mean the Aiel Instant Army was a hard swallow and there was plenty of foreshadowing in books 1-3 of their role, and two entire books dedicated more or less just to their introduction into the story.

 

I've suggested in the past that the Isle of Madmen might be where Shadow channelers go to be trained (we know that the Shadow has trained and produced Dreadlords outside of recruits from the other existing channeling organisations). In many ways the whole mythos of that Isle, with the men and women running mad and the violence and so forth does have the sound of a detailed smoke screen to keep prying eyes away, and since the channelers would be from already known cultures it would just be a matter of introducing the enviroment (no greater proposition than introducing Bander Eben was for tGS).

 

I'm not hugely sold on this as a theory, but its a possibility.

 

Oh, so it was you who proposed that, how could I have forgotten :smile:

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It would be against RJ's entire writing process if the Land of Madmen was to play any crucial role in the final volume. Pretty much everything important in the series has been foreshadowed, it was, IMO, RJ's best writing quality. He didn't "believe" in plot points randomly popping up with no warning at all.

 

LoM having absolutely no foreshadowing or even mention in the main series would rule that out. And I would be kinda annoyed if they did do anything with it, and Shara gets left out. We at least have had reasonable amounts of foreshadowing and info about Shara, and there seems to be stuff going down there, to introduce an entirely alien place, which people don't even suspect exists if they haven't read the BWB would be extremely anti-WoT and RJ, it would not fit with the series at all, in my opinion.

 

Note: That's not to say the theory itself isn't sound. From what we do know, the theory is plausible, I just think it would be a cop-out or a nod of the head gesture to the fans, rather than fitting in smoothly with the story.

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I think we might get a PoV from the Land of Madmen, somewhat like the one from Tremalking during the cleansing, and that is unlikely.

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I am a little bit disappointed on how little Shara is mentioned in the books, it sounds like an interesting place and I would like to learn more about it. I think that Jordan have probably detailed the place, the man detailed everything it seams when he built the world for Wheel of Time but then Shara did not come up much in the story, at least that is my theory on the matter. I do hope we will get a bit more details on these places in the last book though, that would be neat.

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I only know about the Isle of Madmen from reading here. I think if RJ wanted to include it, he would have done so not long after saidin was cleansed. Would have been a big deal over there, don't you think.

 

 

Question: Aside from the saying "black eyed Aiel", what is the foreshadowing in the first 3 books regarding the red veiled Aiel????

 

Thanks.

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I only know about the Isle of Madmen from reading here. I think if RJ wanted to include it, he would have done so not long after saidin was cleansed. Would have been a big deal over there, don't you think.

 

 

Question: Aside from the saying "black eyed Aiel", what is the foreshadowing in the first 3 books regarding the red veiled Aiel????

 

Thanks.

 

Think Luckers meant forshadowing for Rand to get the Aiel armies.

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Yeah, no way to tell if there had been foreshadowing of the red-veils until we know exactly what they are. I think there has been foreshadowing, but since my theory hasn't been confirmed, it is uncertain.

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It's fuuny... only now did I realise that I confused the Land of Madmen with the random island on witch the Atha'an Miere leave their male channelers for certain death... Yeah, so that's why I thought it would be possible to recruit there. Well, maybe it's an option?

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I can't see it, especially with how Graendal plunged that nation into civil war by taking both the male and female leaders

 

That makes it even easier for Demandred to take control of the country. The two leaders are basically considered living gods by the people, and what is more they are secretely controlled by the female channellers among which there must certainly be darkfriends. Take control of the channellers, put a puppet on the throne, crush any rivals, and end the civil war. Graendal taking the Sh'boan and Sh'botay frees Demandred from figuring out how to control them. Instead he can put darkfriends on the throne. Isn't there plenty of slavery in Shara as well?

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It was stated early on in the books or somewhere - that Randland was the focus of the Last Battle

 

We did hear about Shara when Avi went through the columns

 

and for the life of me I can not recall in KoD a Sharan Merchant - can you let me know a chapter or a clue to where?

 

It was an escaped sharan merchant in the tavern just before they go in the stone. He is trying to get someone to invest in a scheme for silk worms. An undercover spy from seanchan then confirms what he is saying is true and Alivia gets all freaked out by the accent. Its a testament to how bad Graendal threw the country into chaos after kidnapping the rulers. We know how tightly they control trade so things must be seriously awry.

 

Oh yes now I recall that - Thanks Suttree

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