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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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We know that during the age of legends they had weapons like we have today (shocklances and so fourth), these forsaken should have knowledge of this, and also they were pretty smart, so i assume they also have the knowledge to make these if they take the time to do it. What if that is one of the forsakens job that we do not kknow about, (like demendred or even moridin).

 

Just a thought, just kinda makes sense that they would have this knowledge.

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the thing is that like in our society that technology is based upon systems that where already in place, during the War of Power and the Breaking those systems where completely destroyed. Without those systems it cannot be replicated

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We know that during the age of legends they had weapons like we have today (shocklances and so fourth), these forsaken should have knowledge of this, and also they were pretty smart, so i assume they also have the knowledge to make these if they take the time to do it. What if that is one of the forsakens job that we do not kknow about, (like demendred or even moridin).

 

Just a thought, just kinda makes sense that they would have this knowledge.

 

Very soon into the war of power most of the infrastructure to make that technology was gone. Even if they have the knowledge you still need the tools and facilities which no longer exist. It would be like a modern scientist dropped back into the middle ages.

Edited by Suttree
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And in addition, we don't know that the Forsaken had such knowledge--advanced societies like the Age of Legends are always based on fields of individual specialisation, and we know most of the Forsaken's areas, none of which fall in to that line.

 

But yes, even if they did they could no more use that knowledge in the modern world than Aginor could use his biological genuis.

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I'm an Engineer, don't consider myself to be too much of a nit, though I don't know how make an AK47. Do you? Besides that, in Randland they're just exploring gunpowder based weaponry with the dragons, from that to modern day weapons is a giant leap. I guess it would be the same for one power based guns, and they don't even have a start/base for that.

 

Edit: except ofc. when it's just a steel pipe with a standing flow for lightning balls at one end, but i guess them to be more complex, as they weren't readily available at the end of the war of power.

Edited by Oort
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the thing is that like in our society that technology is based upon systems that where already in place, during the War of Power and the Breaking those systems where completely destroyed. Without those systems it cannot be replicated

 

 

I believe RJ said that our world was supposed to be the first age.

 

The tech from the AOL would be more like the tech that the legends say that Atlantis had.

Edited by Dagon Thyne
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Shocklances and such were not comparable to modern day weaponry. Shocklances weren't just guns, they were energy weapons (I imagine close to star wars type energy blasters)

 

Even towards the end of the War of Power, shocklances etc.. were no longer being made, and people reverted to the more basic weaponry.

 

The only possibility would be if the Forsaken have found a fully in tact weapon factory from the AoL, and knew how to operate all of the functions, and trained some people to use them, which would be very unlikely.

 

Not to mention the upkeep of the machines (perhaps they use ter'angreal) and needing to harvest the materials needed, the power source to run the things (which could just be the OP, but then do they know the weave?) and possibly amalgamating metals into suitable material to form the basic structure of the weapon. (like it could be titainium, or something similar, which is currently not able to be produced)

 

So yeah, a whole heap of things.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Also, Aginor (as an example) was a brilliant scientist, working with advanced gene modifications and works on the very foundation of the genetic level. That don't mean that he knew how a shocklance worked, or even how to make ter'angreals or heal difficult ailments of the body. Semirhage is the healer of the Forsaken, not Aginor, even though his knowledge of genetics, anatomy and how the body work would indicate that he know a fair bit about biology and anatomy. It is just not the right kind of knowledge to be a good healer.

 

Something that happen a lot ijn the Real WOrld is when someone who is a professor in something turn to the media about a topic he is NOT educated in.. Had a professor of mathematics who was interviewd about matters of sociology, medicin and other areas, as if his title alone made him all-knowing about everything.

Edited by Ferdawoon
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Yeah, philospher, teacher, administrator, musician, one knows healing, gene modification

Even in biology, you have one better at gene modification and one can heal.

 

Even I as an engineer, understanding more about the design of many differing systems and processes, with a set of blueprints, could not build even if you gave me all the blacksmiths and refined ore I wanted. I would still be missing alloys, steel processes, practical know how, high tolerance machining, precise measuring, chemical labs to refine materials.

Note: the unrifeled musket was so inaccurate that if two stood opposite from more than a few yards away, probability of a miss goes up.

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Here's a thing--in Winter's Heart chapter 13 Demandred states that things such as view-walls, shocklances and sho wings cannot be made outside of Shayol Ghul.

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So there is still some manufacturing equipment/ter'angreal present at SG? It wouldn't be that far fetched considering the massive resources needed to breed Shadowspawn and weapons for them.

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Osan'gar was wasted running around with Rand. He should've been better utilized making his bio weapons. Though perhaps he didn't have his equipment.

I thought the same thing. He's a mad scientist. He should have at least improved upon the trollocs or something with some selective breeding.

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Osan'gar was wasted running around with Rand. He should've been better utilized making his bio weapons. Though perhaps he didn't have his equipment.

I thought the same thing. He's a mad scientist. He should have at least improved upon the trollocs or something with some selective breeding.

 

RJ has said his skills were useless in this age without the proper tools and technology.

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Here's a thing--in Winter's Heart chapter 13 Demandred states that things such as view-walls, shocklances and sho wings cannot be made outside of Shayol Ghul.

 

??

 

Wasnt he refering to the briefly-mentioned "Brutal sport"-type game when he was talking about things only made at SG? It was aparently forged from a living human and was one of the major crimes of the AoL during the Colapse. Sho wings were being used before the DO was found, as were view-walls. Shocklances were developed on both sides for the War.

 

Edit: called a zara board, "Its pieces were made from live human beings."

 

Ok, I found the place in Winters Heart where Demandred muses that these things cannot be made outside this place by SG, but I dont think that was the case in the AoL, just that that place near SG was the only place left on earth that was a remenant of whatever it was used back in the AoL that let their tech work. If the Forsaken could have made a place seem more civilized and feel more like home, I'd bet they would do so.

Edited by Lurk31
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Here's a thing--in Winter's Heart chapter 13 Demandred states that things such as view-walls, shocklances and sho wings cannot be made outside of Shayol Ghul.

 

??

 

Wasnt he refering to the briefly-mentioned "Brutal sport"-type game when he was talking about things only made at SG? It was aparently forged from a living human and was one of the major crimes of the AoL during the Colapse. Sho wings were being used before the DO was found, as were view-walls. Shocklances were developed on both sides for the War.

 

It's an odd statement from him. He's not saying that they couldn't be made outside of SG in the past, only that they can't anymore. It seems that this place is somewhat like TAR as Graendal was able to "choose the setting". So I think he's just saying that the Third Age world doesn't have the technology, at the moment, for sho wings and shocklances and view-walls.

 

As an aside, I love Demandred pov chapters. "Badass knows he badass" is exactly what they read like. Dude clearly got his share of testosterone. Is there anywhere in the books an even more agressive guy in the books?

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I always got the feeling that there was a lot more going on when he showed up, but it would take another series paralleling the series that would be just as long as the WoT to ahow what was going on with Demandred and the rest of the plots cooked up by the other Forsaken.

 

Well, not Aran'gar: "Great Lord, I gave the girl who is kinda the Amrelyn a bunch of headaches. In a tent. All winter long. ...Have I not served well, Great Lord? "

 

"NO, Aran'gar. YOU ARE A TWIT. JUST...GO AWAY. "

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Ok, I found the place in Winters Heart where Demandred muses that these things cannot be made outside this place by SG, but I dont think that was the case in the AoL, just that that place near SG was the only place left on earth that was a remenant of whatever it was used back in the AoL that let their tech work. If the Forsaken could have made a place seem more civilized and feel more like home, I'd bet they would do so.

 

You think they would have running hot and cold water, along with toilet paper?

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Ok, I found the place in Winters Heart where Demandred muses that these things cannot be made outside this place by SG, but I dont think that was the case in the AoL, just that that place near SG was the only place left on earth that was a remenant of whatever it was used back in the AoL that let their tech work. If the Forsaken could have made a place seem more civilized and feel more like home, I'd bet they would do so.

 

 

Maybe that's the blank in the blight? Some old timey factory or laboratory or some such.

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I had this thought too, potentially an AOL factory in the blight that no one knows about creating weapons for the shadow

That would be quite the twist ending for the series. "But the trollocs were not using swords, no. They carried long quarterstaves in their hands. But the quarterstaves were hollow, and from them flew death in the form of tiny pieces of metal. They must have had the taint of Aridhol." But that is just how I see it.

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I mean why not? They have light bulbs working, which means there is electricity(which could also mean its an entire place with that), so it is very feasible that there is a factory there, and demendread would be the one to be there i think.

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I mean why not? They have light bulbs working, which means there is electricity(which could also mean its an entire place with that), so it is very feasible that there is a factory there, and demendread would be the one to be there i think.

They are not light bulbs really. They run off the power, not electricity.

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I think absolutly there is a city in the Blight; all those trollocs have to eat something. Morridin's fortress and the vilages seen from the windows at least implies that there is a lot more in the blight than anyone thought. A city is pretty likely, but factories? I dont know. They'd have to have actuall working knowlege of how to make these obviously complicated devices with the Power. They lost the capibility pretty quickly in the AoL, and if they couldnt figure it out again, when they really needed it, I doubt the Shadow would be able to bring it back now. The Forsaken have only been free for a couple of years, except for Ishamael, and he's a bloody philosepher, not an Engineer. The others have shown no huge aptitude for science, except for Aginor, but his talents are way beyond making simple weapons and currently he's busy being dead, also. The fortress that Morriden has set up likely has the potential to make advanced tech with the Power, but let's face it; the Forsaken being who they are, they are unlikely to make advanced weapons even if they could. Instead of maybe, say, rolling out an assembly line of power-controlled sho-wings to rain death over the entire world or to arm their foot troops with ranged-death dealing shocklances the Forsaken we all know are more likely to bask in the air conditioning. Or have hot running water and toilet paper, oh, just for instance ;) . These guyswill take almost any opportunity to snatch defeat out of the very jaws of victory.

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I think absolutly there is a city in the Blight; all those trollocs have to eat something. Morridin's fortress and the vilages seen from the windows at least implies that there is a lot more in the blight than anyone thought. A city is pretty likely, but factories? I dont know. They'd have to have actuall working knowlege of how to make these obviously complicated devices with the Power. They lost the capibility pretty quickly in the AoL, and if they couldnt figure it out again, when they really needed it, I doubt the Shadow would be able to bring it back now. The Forsaken have only been free for a couple of years, except for Ishamael, and he's a bloody philosepher, not an Engineer. The others have shown no huge aptitude for science, except for Aginor, but his talents are way beyond making simple weapons and currently he's busy being dead, also. The fortress that Morriden has set up likely has the potential to make advanced tech with the Power, but let's face it; the Forsaken being who they are, they are unlikely to make advanced weapons even if they could. Instead of maybe, say, rolling out an assembly line of power-controlled sho-wings to rain death over the entire world or to arm their foot troops with ranged-death dealing shocklances the Forsaken we all know are more likely to bask in the air conditioning. Or have hot running water and toilet paper, oh, just for instance ;) . These guyswill take almost any opportunity to snatch defeat out of the very jaws of victory.

 

That's much more complicated than what I was thinking, it could be something pretty simple that makes something pretty specific that you could just put dreadlords on. But just a theory too, which like I keep sayin until we RAFO it could be anything.

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