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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

I'm not a psychiatrist but...


Alric
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I still don't understand why people think he was raped...if he had been truly unwilling, for example if he had been screaming stop or crying in a corner in disgust at tylin, cutting himself because of self loathing and what not, then hell yeh, id be on the rape train as well. Instead, his comments were along the lines of 'You can't do this' and 'Im the one who does the chasing' etc etc stuff along those lines. He was uncomfortable with the situation, because in his mine, he's meant to be the hound dog, instead she's the cougar cracking on to the charming younger fellar.

 

Mat is a young guy, pretty good with women, decently attractive(from his description and women's responses to him) who was still pretty much limited by his stuffy Two Rivers upbringing, where men are chivalrous and premarital 'relations' in any form are prohibited. He was uncomfortable in a new situation, in which the tables were turned. We even see other examples of his inexperience with women hitting on him, i'm pretty sure some of the maids or cooks or something in ebou dar comment on his nice ass, and he was extremely uncomfortable in that foreign situation as well.

 

In regards to the Stockholm Syndrome part, lets compare it to the hopefully non-fiction examples wikipedia gives us,

  • Mary McElroy was kidnapped and held for ransom in 1933 and released by her captors unharmed. When three of her four captors were apprehended and given maximum sentences (including one death sentence), McElroy defended them. According to reports, she suffered from feelings of guilt concerning the case which compromised her mental and physical health. She took her own life in 1940.

  • Patty Hearst was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army in 1974. After two months in captivity, she actively took part in a robbery they were orchestrating. Her unsuccessful legal defense claimed that she suffered from Stockholm Syndrome and was coerced into aiding the SLA. She was convicted and imprisoned for her actions in the robbery, though her sentence was commuted in February 1979 by President Jimmy Carter, and she received a Presidential pardon from President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001 (among his last official acts before leaving office).

 

The message i'd like to get through is:

 

1) Seriously think about it, if when Tylin had had mat at knife point the first time, if he had started crying, and saying 'please i can't do this with you' she would have stopped.

 

2) Mat realizing he actually liked tylin( she probably opened him up to really dealing with women, not just cracking onto them at bars, and he very likely realized he liked her personality) does not mean he has stockholm syndrome.

 

If you can't see this from Mat's perspective take a minute to put yourself in Tylin's shoes. You have someone at knife point that you're leading toward your bedroom and more to the point your bed.They say "what are you doing?" and you don't answer. You know they can't attack you because you're a king/queen. In addition to that you could kill that person and it would be justified until proven otherwise (but since you're a king/queen who's going to question you).

 

What would you call what you just did to that person?

 

So because Mat didn't breakdown crying he can't be upset about what happened? Absence of tears doesn't equal absence of emotion, anger, sadness, or pain.

Edited by TyphoonBlade
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Alright, point conceded. I wasn't aware RJ intended the...sort of sub-plot, to be considered rape, i definitely agree that the first scene of the whole thing was a bit iffy, but from there i always envisioned the relationship being a little different, and having changed to more of a lovers type thing...maybe i should go back and reread it.

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prematurely. Egwene, i think she just feels she knows best...but i can name a bunch of people i know like that...they're jerks but not suffering from mental health issues. Furthermore, if you compare her supposed PTSD to Rand's, he suffers from flashbacks, dreaming about the issue, and has some waking experiences, like flashing back to feeling physically trapped in the box. If Egwene has PTSD, it's pretty minor.

Well, she dont really suffer from it, but notice how she behave when the Seanchan topic comes up. Especially her state of mind during the raid on the White Tower! It was not 100% to protect her children as an Amyrlin, it was also part of a reaction to what she had experienced as a Damane. She would probalby not have acted in the same violent and fanatic way (they are better off dead than captured) if she had not experienced the trauma of being one of those broken down. Someone else might have said "Better alive than dead".

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Rand's diagnosis is pretty accurate, he may suffer from what we consider Dissociative Identity Disorder, better known as Multiple Personality Disorder. I say this because at times what we can consider the 'Lews Therin' entity will take control of Rand's body. His diagnosis of Schizophrenia is dependent on whether or not you believe that DID is actually a condition, or just severe Schizophrenia.

 

 

No; it's definitely not DID. In order for it to be that, the 'alternate' personality would have to disappear entirely while the other was in control. What LTT would be called is a mood-congruent auditory hallucination - a psychotic feature that can appear in some cases of severe depression. Rand wouldn't be diagnosed with schizophrenia; it would be depression (or possibly Bipolar II; debatable) with psychotic features. If the LTT memories weren't real it would be schizophrenia, but since they are, it isn't. Schizophrenia involves more dellusion than Rand ever suffers from.

 

Also, even though Rand develops a fear of small spaces after the box thing, I'm not sure it would count as PTSD. He doesn't have flashbacks or panics at any other time.

 

Sorry; I just had to :tongue:

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Alright, point conceded. I wasn't aware RJ intended the...sort of sub-plot, to be considered rape, i definitely agree that the first scene of the whole thing was a bit iffy, but from there i always envisioned the relationship being a little different, and having changed to more of a lovers type thing...maybe i should go back and reread it.

I'm rereading Winter's Heart and Setalle Anne (and maybe others) say that what Tylin is doing is wrong, a 'pretty' should be able to leave whenever he wants, etc.

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