Hand of Onyx

[WMTom]

For a while now, I have thought "the three become one" refers to the intermixing of Saidar, Saidin and the True Power. Serval times "zsa" were mentioned as a by product of channeling the True Power too much. Somewhere it was mentioned, continued use of the True Power would render the channelers eyes black. With the limits of use the DO has put on the True Power, I would guess no one was allowed to channel past the black eyes part. What if channeling great amounts of the True Power, through Callendor, say, would have further reaching effects, such as the body itself?

 

Anyone have thoughts on this?

[yoniy0]

Yeah, I'm not sure about the black thing. What RJ said is that saa eventually evolve into the fiery eyes Ishamael had in the first three books. Also, Callandor is a sa'angreal for the True Source. Nothing we know suggests that you can use it with the TP.

[Neophyte]

Also, I really don't think that the One Power and the True Power can mix at all. Remember what happened when Rand and Moridin "crossed the streams" at Shadar Logoth. It's possible that that was merely the effect of balefiring balefire, but I think that at least part of it was mixing the OP and the TP.

 

They are so antithetical, I doubt that they can be mixed. Even the taint couldn't mix with saidin - it covered it, but didn't mix with it. I think that the three becoming one is another clue about using Callandor in a circle of three.

[spoke]

Yeah, I'm not sure about the black thing. What RJ said is that saa eventually evolve into the fiery eyes Ishamael had in the first three books. Also, Callandor is a sa'angreal for the True Source. Nothing we know suggests that you can use it with the TP.

That is not entirely true. There is nothing definitive to suggest that you can use it with the TP, but there is a known issue that it magnifies the taint. Some have used this to further the idea that it can be used as an Angreal for the True Source - assuming that the taint is the True Source

[yoniy0]

That is not entirely true.

Point taken. I always thought that when Cadsuane said "it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind" she was using a parallel, i.e., it's known to induce wildness of the mind, and magnifying the taint is just the explanation some AS came up with for that fact (we haven't seen anything unusual about the taint when Rand used it, albeit there was more of it -- due to the increased flow of saidin). I could be wrong, though, so you're right.

[mdnyttokr]

Hmm... all this time, and it never occurred to me that the balefire streams that Rand and Moridin crossed in ACoS weren't both made of saidin. Moridin's balefire stream was made from TP. Which is also why Rand never felt him channel.

 

I feel pretty stupid about it now... considering that somewhere in the series it stated that Moridin only ever channels the TP, and never saidin. The link between Rand and Moridin was caused by the inadvertent crossing of TP and saidin, and not simply an effect of crossing random saidin-made balefire streams. It was what MADE those balefire streams that caused the link... "I see" said the blind man! So it appears the TP will have SOME role to play in the Last Battle, more than just a weapon for Moridin to use. Or Rand.

 

I wonder what would happen if Moridin tried to use the TP on Padan Fain? This is totally likely, considering everyone is now heading to the blight, and Fain is already there. I'm assuming TP balefire would still kill Fain, but what about something else? Do you think Fain has any kind of defense against the TP? I know the DO's power sure doesn't agree with Mordeth's power.

[thisguy]

Hmm... all this time, and it never occurred to me that the balefire streams that Rand and Moridin crossed in ACoS weren't both made of saidin. Moridin's balefire stream was made from TP. Which is also why Rand never felt him channel.

 

I feel pretty stupid about it now... considering that somewhere in the series it stated that Moridin only ever channels the TP, and never saidin. The link between Rand and Moridin was caused by the inadvertent crossing of TP and saidin, and not simply an effect of crossing random saidin-made balefire streams. It was what MADE those balefire streams that caused the link... "I see" said the blind man! So it appears the TP will have SOME role to play in the Last Battle, more than just a weapon for Moridin to use. Or Rand.

 

I wonder what would happen if Moridin tried to use the TP on Padan Fain? This is totally likely, considering everyone is now heading to the blight, and Fain is already there. I'm assuming TP balefire would still kill Fain, but what about something else? Do you think Fain has any kind of defense against the TP? I know the DO's power sure doesn't agree with Mordeth's power.

Obviously, just a guess, but since balefire worked on mashadar, I'm guessing it will work on Fain, too.

[Neophyte]

Yeah, I'm not sure about the black thing. What RJ said is that saa eventually evolve into the fiery eyes Ishamael had in the first three books. Also, Callandor is a sa'angreal for the True Source. Nothing we know suggests that you can use it with the TP.

That is not entirely true. There is nothing definitive to suggest that you can use it with the TP, but there is a known issue that it magnifies the taint. Some have used this to further the idea that it can be used as an Angreal for the True Source - assuming that the taint is the True Source

 

The taint is explicitly not the True Power per at least one Brandon quote that I've seen (terminology note - the True Source is the source of the One Power, not the True Power ... irritating, I know). In addition, all descriptions of the taint and the True Power are utterly different.

 

I know some have speculated that Callandor could be used as an angreal for the True Power, but it doesn't work that way. When you get access to the True Power, you get as much as the Dark One wants to give you - angreal and sa'angreal aren't necessary. When Rand is using is vs. Semirhage, he feels like he has access to as much as he did using the Choedan Kal with the One Power. Also, I'm very sure I've seen a quote saying that you can't use the True Power in a way that the Dark One disapproves of - if you try, it simply doesn't work. It is drawn directly from him, and cannot be used without his permission.

[yoniy0]

When you get access to the True Power, you get as much as the Dark One wants to give you - angreal and sa'angreal aren't necessary. When Rand is using is vs. Semirhage, he feels like he has access to as much as he did using the Choedan Kal with the One Power.

I agree with the first part of your statement, although having access to something doesn't necessarily mean you're able to use it safely (which is, in fact, the function of an angreal. It helps you to handle more than you normally could, but you could draw that much without it if you wished -- if for a very short time). As to the second part, Brandon is on record saying that the TP only felt as addictive as the amount of saidin Rand can draw through the CK; it wasn't really comparable in amount.

[Neophyte]

When you get access to the True Power, you get as much as the Dark One wants to give you - angreal and sa'angreal aren't necessary. When Rand is using is vs. Semirhage, he feels like he has access to as much as he did using the Choedan Kal with the One Power.

I agree with the first part of your statement, although having access to something doesn't necessarily mean you're able to use it safely (which is, in fact, the function of an angreal. It helps you to handle more than you normally could, but you could draw that much without it if you wished -- if for a very short time). As to the second part, Brandon is on record saying that the TP only felt as addictive as the amount of saidin Rand can draw through the CK; it wasn't really comparable in amount.

 

I wasn't aware of that last part - good to know.

[DrZippy]

We've seen that trying to use the TP at SG will fry you to a crisp (reread the chapter in CoS where Moggy gets mindtrapped; she mentions it specifically). In addition, we know the TP comes from the DO. He's not going to allow its use to seal him, even if anyone could channel it safely at SG.

 

I think "three become one" will be sadin, saidar, and the evil represented by Fain, in addition to Rand, Nyn and Moiraine wielding Callandor.

[Durinax]

the onyx hand, I think that is actually the DO in symbolic form for the viewing.

[thisguy]

The Hand Of Onyx is a new Metal Band. Rock on!!!!

[XoMeltdownoX]

I never liked the "onyx hand" bit. As a person who sells onyx I can tell you it is pretty unusual to find it in black. There is black onyx, but more commonly it is white to shades of yellow and gold and it is never one colour. Onyx is always multi- coloured in bands. Author mistake...

 

Typing this while on my phone sitting at my gold onyx (the most common colour) dining table:)

[MarkDiLillo]

The "you get as much of the TP as the Dark One allows you without need for angreal" is not a fact by any means. The way I read it was that the extacy of using the TP was equivalent to when he used the CK and 1000x more OP as normal.

[Durinax]

The "you get as much of the TP as the Dark One allows you without need for angreal" is not a fact by any means. The way I read it was that the extacy of using the TP was equivalent to when he used the CK and 1000x more OP as normal.

I read it as it is addictively the same amount, meaning that although he used much less of it, due to the sheer addictiveness of the TP that it is equatable to using the CK

[FarShainMael]

I never liked the "onyx hand" bit. As a person who sells onyx I can tell you it is pretty unusual to find it in black. There is black onyx, but more commonly it is white to shades of yellow and gold and it is never one colour. Onyx is always multi- coloured in bands. Author mistake...

 

Typing this while on my phone sitting at my gold onyx (the most common colour) dining table:)

 

Sounds gorgeous!

 

I have to admit that I've always pictured onyx as being black, so you've educated me. I looked it up:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx

 

Perhaps obsidian would have been a better choice:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian

[Rocky_Outcrop]

I never liked the "onyx hand" bit. As a person who sells onyx I can tell you it is pretty unusual to find it in black. There is black onyx, but more commonly it is white to shades of yellow and gold and it is never one colour. Onyx is always multi- coloured in bands. Author mistake...

 

Typing this while on my phone sitting at my gold onyx (the most common colour) dining table:)

 

Sounds gorgeous!

 

I have to admit that I've always pictured onyx as being black, so you've educated me. I looked it up:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx

 

Perhaps obsidian would have been a better choice:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian

 

I always thought that obsidian would be better too... This is from the wiki you linked to: "Black onyx is perhaps the most famous variety, but is not as common as onyx with colored bands. Artificial treatments have been used since ancient times to produce both the black color in "black onyx" and the reds and yellows in sardonyx. Most "black onyx" on the market is artificially colored"

[XoMeltdownoX]

I never liked the "onyx hand" bit. As a person who sells onyx I can tell you it is pretty unusual to find it in black. There is black onyx, but more commonly it is white to shades of yellow and gold and it is never one colour. Onyx is always multi- coloured in bands. Author mistake...

 

Typing this while on my phone sitting at my gold onyx (the most common colour) dining table:)

 

Sounds gorgeous!

 

I have to admit that I've always pictured onyx as being black, so you've educated me. I looked it up:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx

 

Perhaps obsidian would have been a better choice:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian

Obsidian is a good choice. Funny thing about obsidian, it's kind of like the colour of the Death Watch's armour. Because it is volcanic glass, it is not dead black. Kind of a green so dark it looks black.

 

Edit: I have seen obsidian in grey too

[FarShainMael]

Ah yes, the 'nearly-black green'.

[DrZippy]

To get back to the original point of the thread, who's black hand is wielding Callandor? Moridin? Shadar Haran? Fain?

[Neophyte]

To get back to the original point of the thread, who's black hand is wielding Callandor? Moridin? Shadar Haran? Fain?

 

We don't know.

 

The threads that get sidetracked the most easily are the ones that are the most speculative.

 

I think it's Rand, and that the "onyx" looking hand is either symbolic or some sort of prosthetic,

 

Heck ... maybe he gets down in the Pit, the Dark gives one last "JOIN ME I'M THE POWERFULLEST" speech and says "HERE LOOK I CAN GIVE YOU YOUR HAND BACK!" Then Rand says "Thanks" switches hands, and stabs Saidar Haran with Callandor.

 

There's about as much evidence for that scenario as there is for any other, which is to say, very little.

[joeron bigelow]

Its the hand of the crippled god...

[Durinax]

To get back to the original point of the thread, who's black hand is wielding Callandor? Moridin? Shadar Haran? Fain?

I think its the DO possessing or 'seizing all that he is" meaning he takes control of Rand, thus holding callandor while the two women linked to him are able to control him type deal

[Luckers]

To get back to the original point of the thread, who's black hand is wielding Callandor? Moridin? Shadar Haran? Fain?

 

I've suggested the possibility that the 'onyx' hand could possibly be a charred hand. It doesn't seem that implausible that the sword used incorrectly--i.e. without two women, and things go bad with the flaw and the lack of a buffer--might grow hot. After all it emits light when channeled through, and if that channeling were to go out of control due to the flaw... charring the hand that held to blackness.

 

Thus, it may well be Narishma, the one who 'follows after'. Say Rand dies, and desperately Narishma picks up Callandor and tries to use it unaided by women, charring his hand to blackness when he draws too much, and ultimately loses that hand--that could very well be said to be following after the path Rand walked.

 

And yes, I know it's a little bit of a loose interpretation of onyx--but then, strictly speaking, so are most guesses for the viewing. Anyway just throwing it out there for a bit of fun and consideration.