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Lanfear's Rescuer

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Just a quick one here.

 

Considering Moiraine's reaction to the man who said she was not the one he was looking for in the ToG, are we all certain that it was Moridin? In a lot of ways Moridin makes the most sense. However, when Moiraine thinks of this man she shivers. There is one character who we see referred to as cold on a number of occasions and who we have also seen entering the tower, albeit in T'a'R - Slayer. Perrin describes him as having a cold smell, almost as of stone. He may not have the savour that the Finns so enjoy. If Moridin entered through Tear, he would have been able to get three answers but not be given three gifts, so why would the Finn allow him the freedom of passage through their realm? And why would they not have tried to capture him, as a channeler should he not have been every bit as tempting as Lanfear or Moiraine if he entered through the tower and was not protected by the treaties?

 

Again, like a number of things I have posted on lately I do not think this is of major significance. It just surprises me that we are all so quick to decide it was Moridin.

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I've had similar thoughts myself for two reasons.

 

1) We've seen Slayer enter the Tower in the world of dreams so he clearly has the ability to go in and out at will.

 

2) We know for sure she is in a new body and therefor likely died. If she died at the hands of the finns...why would anyone come for her? The DO would already be aware that she died as he already would have grabbed her soul to give her a new body. So that means whoever went to "rescue" her either killed her there or killed her when she got back.

 

It seems plausible that Slayer went there to find her and kill her because it was the only way to free her without paying a price nobody wanted to pay.

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I've had similar thoughts myself for two reasons.

 

1) We've seen Slayer enter the Tower in the world of dreams so he clearly has the ability to go in and out at will.

 

2) We know for sure she is in a new body and therefor likely died. If she died at the hands of the finns...why would anyone come for her? The DO would already be aware that she died as he already would have grabbed her soul to give her a new body. So that means whoever went to "rescue" her either killed her there or killed her when she got back.

 

It seems plausible that Slayer went there to find her and kill her because it was the only way to free her without paying a price nobody wanted to pay.

 

Pretty sure that 1) is at least up for debate and not a given at this point. There are probably threads that isolate the issue. In short, there is a good argument that Slayer departed T'a'R but did not enter the Tower, he was trying to trick Perrin into entering but has no special ability in the realm of the Snakes and Foxes.

 

With the stash Ishydin has at his disposal, it would not surprise me if more Ter' allowing access to Finnland exist and belong to Ishydin. Killing Lanfear would certainly fit the profile for both Slayer and Ishy.

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Hmmm...that's odd. I thought there was a passage in the earlier books showing Slayer specifically entering the Tower in TAR?

 

There are definitely a lot of open possibilities with what happened to Lanfear, but the one thing we can rule out is that she died prior to Moridin/Slayers arrival...or at least prior to their departure to go get her. Her death, if she actually died (though that seems very likely) occurred sometime after her time with the Finns or during her escape.

 

The Lanfear plot resolution is one of the things I am looking forward to most in this last book. I am going to be incredibly disappointed if the whole dream thing was just a planned trap and she ends up being killed off mindlessly just like the other Forsaken.

Edited by Mark D

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TSR chp. 28 or 29. I was reading it last night. Perrin assumes Slayer entered. Birgitte says it is dangerous in the real world, impossible to escape in TAR. So we all assumed this too. Then we get a RJ quote. Came across it a couple of hours ago in the ask a simple question thread (though I first read it last year someplace).

 

Edit: this has the funny scene where Perrin says to Hopper, "it is a wonder you are not attacked by chipmunks."

Edited by Xo Meltdown oX

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Glanced over that section and noticed this:

 

“We will,” Perrin said sadly. It would be nice if he could come here when he died; he was half wolf already, it seemed sometimes. “I have to go now, Hopper.”

 

I wonder if that's foreshadowing to Perrin being an actual hero of the horn.

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Point taken about Slayer not having entered the tower - I could stretch the point and say that maybe he exited TAR and then entered the tower but that would seem unnecessary really. Pity, I do prefer the idea of Slayer having been able to survive in the tower due to his own special awfulness!

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Glanced over that section and noticed this:

 

“We will,” Perrin said sadly. It would be nice if he could come here when he died; he was half wolf already, it seemed sometimes. “I have to go now, Hopper.”

 

I wonder if that's foreshadowing to Perrin being an actual hero of the horn.

I think Rand, Mat and Perrin will all be heroes of the horn. I mean, Rand is LTT reborn, Mat has the military prowess of Hawkwing and other great generals, and Perrin... well if he was left out that would be no fair

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Glanced over that section and noticed this:

 

“We will,” Perrin said sadly. It would be nice if he could come here when he died; he was half wolf already, it seemed sometimes. “I have to go now, Hopper.”

 

I wonder if that's foreshadowing to Perrin being an actual hero of the horn.

I think Rand, Mat and Perrin will all be heroes of the horn. I mean, Rand is LTT reborn, Mat has the military prowess of Hawkwing and other great generals, and Perrin... well if he was left out that would be no fair

Yeah, and Rand channels awesome and is going to fight the DO. And Mat has his luck that he relies on and uses in cool ways. And Perrin... uh... shuns his ability to talk to wolves.... That's hero worthy right?

 

Jk, jk. But honestly. Perrin needs to do something awesome in the last book. Like bash somebodies head in with the hammer and then rip the throats of darkhounds out with his teeth.

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Just a quick one here.

 

Considering Moiraine's reaction to the man who said she was not the one he was looking for in the ToG, are we all certain that it was Moridin? In a lot of ways Moridin makes the most sense. However, when Moiraine thinks of this man she shivers. There is one character who we see referred to as cold on a number of occasions and who we have also seen entering the tower, albeit in T'a'R - Slayer. Perrin describes him as having a cold smell, almost as of stone. He may not have the savour that the Finns so enjoy. If Moridin entered through Tear, he would have been able to get three answers but not be given three gifts, so why would the Finn allow him the freedom of passage through their realm? And why would they not have tried to capture him, as a channeler should he not have been every bit as tempting as Lanfear or Moiraine if he entered through the tower and was not protected by the treaties?

 

Again, like a number of things I have posted on lately I do not think this is of major significance. It just surprises me that we are all so quick to decide it was Moridin.

 

As to why the Finns didn't try to capture Moridin, a channeler, we have to consider that we do not know what effect a channeler of the true power has on the Finns. The Saa in his eyes may likely scare the bejeezes out of them. As to him entering; someone had a theory on this forum that the---in the blight could in fact be another doorway to Finnland (don't know his theory from the heart, but you might want to check it out.

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Just a quick one here.

 

Considering Moiraine's reaction to the man who said she was not the one he was looking for in the ToG, are we all certain that it was Moridin? In a lot of ways Moridin makes the most sense. However, when Moiraine thinks of this man she shivers. There is one character who we see referred to as cold on a number of occasions and who we have also seen entering the tower, albeit in T'a'R - Slayer. Perrin describes him as having a cold smell, almost as of stone. He may not have the savour that the Finns so enjoy. If Moridin entered through Tear, he would have been able to get three answers but not be given three gifts, so why would the Finn allow him the freedom of passage through their realm? And why would they not have tried to capture him, as a channeler should he not have been every bit as tempting as Lanfear or Moiraine if he entered through the tower and was not protected by the treaties?

 

Again, like a number of things I have posted on lately I do not think this is of major significance. It just surprises me that we are all so quick to decide it was Moridin.

 

As to why the Finns didn't try to capture Moridin, a channeler, we have to consider that we do not know what effect a channeler of the true power has on the Finns. The Saa in his eyes may likely scare the bejeezes out of them. As to him entering; someone had a theory on this forum that the---in the blight could in fact be another doorway to Finnland (don't know his theory from the heart, but you might want to check it out.

 

It's here:

 

http://www.dragonmou...ge__st__160#171

 

et seq

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Just a quick one here.

 

Considering Moiraine's reaction to the man who said she was not the one he was looking for in the ToG, are we all certain that it was Moridin? In a lot of ways Moridin makes the most sense. However, when Moiraine thinks of this man she shivers. There is one character who we see referred to as cold on a number of occasions and who we have also seen entering the tower, albeit in T'a'R - Slayer. Perrin describes him as having a cold smell, almost as of stone. He may not have the savour that the Finns so enjoy. If Moridin entered through Tear, he would have been able to get three answers but not be given three gifts, so why would the Finn allow him the freedom of passage through their realm? And why would they not have tried to capture him, as a channeler should he not have been every bit as tempting as Lanfear or Moiraine if he entered through the tower and was not protected by the treaties?

 

Again, like a number of things I have posted on lately I do not think this is of major significance. It just surprises me that we are all so quick to decide it was Moridin.

I like the idea that it was Slayer, and for the reasons you gave.

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Slayer didn't enter the ToG, he simply stepped out of TaR or moved to another location.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 9th, 1996

ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)

 

ERICA SADUN

What was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Not traveling in time. The physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One [in Randland] is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is *REALLY* bad. You cannot go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

 

 

Even though this is the case, there is no reason why it couldn't be Slayer. It could be a foreshadowing that he would enter the ToG in the real world at a later point. The idea of the protection against finns because he doesn't have the same emotions is a nice one. However, apart from that incident, which Slayer didn't even enter the ToG, there is no connection.

 

Most likely it was Moridin. The Tear doorway was destroyed, something which I doubt Slayer could do, but Moridin could. If he originally entered through the Tear Doorway (or the possibility of another one in the Blight) he would be protected by the agreement. Even without that, he has the best chance to leave Finnland unharmed with the True Power and what not.

 

Plus, I doubt Slayer would be trusted with such an important task. Lanfear is/was one of the Forsaken, Slayer is little more than a tool. Add the fact that Moridin holds Lanfear's mindtrap, it seems likely.

 

Re: Shivering, remember that even Graendal loses her cool and starts sweating around Moridin. I don't doubt Moridin would elicit that reaction from Moiraine just remembering him.

 

edit: even though the slayer = no savour theory is nice, it doesn't work. The whole treaty between Finns and the world was based around mutual benefit. People get their question/wish and finns get their savour. The Finns would not be inclined to help Slayer if he doesn't have the savour. Which would mean that he would either have to be granted 3 wishes via the treaty - in which case anyone could have done it, not just Slayer - or he forced them to cooperate, in which case Moridin is much more likely to be able to do it, with the TP and what not.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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Its more likely that Slayer lured Perrin to the ToG in TAR then stepped out, making it look like he went in.

 

And is the doorway in Tear destroyed? I can't remember reading about that

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Its more likely that Slayer lured Perrin to the ToG in TAR then stepped out, making it look like he went in.

 

And is the doorway in Tear destroyed? I can't remember reading about that

 

1. I agree, it seems likely.

 

2. Probably should rephrase that, since we don't know if the Doorway itself is destroyed. However, the Doorway in Finnland that connected to the Tear Doorway is destroyed, we see it when Mat tries to escape via Tear Doorway in ToM. Wether or not the actual doorway still exists in Tear, the connection has been severed.

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RJ comments like "You cannot go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding)." don't mean much. He told us you can't go to the Blight in TAR, but Moridin sent the Dreamspike the to TAR in the Blight, and told Graendel to recover it. And not only was this comment paraphrased, but the TAR part comes as a complete non-sequitor, so there's no telling what context RJ was mentioning it in that got left out.

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perhaps what it had meant was that the blight did not exist in TAR it showed the world as it should have been? Shayol Ghul can't be accessed though if i remember right, would have to look it up if I can find it.

Edited by rand4747

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I'm sure the blight can be accessed through TAR, the Chosen had a few 'Dream Meetings' near thakandar.

 

I doubt you'd be able to visit the Pit of Doom though

 

And when you concider that wild animals have their own reflection in TAR, I wouldn't recommend visiting a place over-run with blood-thirsty mutant critters.

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And not only was this comment paraphrased, but the TAR part comes as a complete non-sequitor, so there's no telling what context RJ was mentioning it in that got left out.

The reporter was Erica. I think we can trust her summery more than a usual paraphrasing.

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I'm sure the blight can be accessed through TAR, the Chosen had a few 'Dream Meetings' near thakandar.

 

I doubt you'd be able to visit the Pit of Doom though

 

And when you concider that wild animals have their own reflection in TAR, I wouldn't recommend visiting a place over-run with blood-thirsty mutant critters.

 

We don't actually know where those dream meetings took place, and RJ was very clear...

 

Interview: Oct 9th, 1996

 

ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)

 

Question

 

Tell us about the Blight.

 

Robert Jordan

 

 

You can not enter it from Tel'aran'rhiod because it is apart from NORMAL UNIVERSE and can not be touched. The Blight is not part of the normal universe.

 

And again, it's Erica Sadun, who is quite reliable.

 

As for the Dreamspike... we again don't know where it went in TAR, it may well be possible to send it into the dream elsewhere from where you are. More probably though it was just a Brandon-mistake, and not one I'd particularily judge him for--it's a pretty obscure quote.

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And not only was this comment paraphrased, but the TAR part comes as a complete non-sequitor, so there's no telling what context RJ was mentioning it in that got left out.
The reporter was Erica. I think we can trust her summery more than a usual paraphrasing.

It's not just about trusting her to be accurate, but trusting that there isn't some subtle context that got lost in the paraphrasing. Commentary on TAR has always been weird and full of exceptions, and the Tower of Ghenji is a powerful artifact; it may provide an exception to a general rule. Birgette seems to think the Tower works in TAR but is more dangerous, and Perrin's ta'veren effect pulled her into giving him that information.

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Just a quick one here.

 

Considering Moiraine's reaction to the man who said she was not the one he was looking for in the ToG, are we all certain that it was Moridin? In a lot of ways Moridin makes the most sense. However, when Moiraine thinks of this man she shivers. There is one character who we see referred to as cold on a number of occasions and who we have also seen entering the tower, albeit in T'a'R - Slayer. Perrin describes him as having a cold smell, almost as of stone. He may not have the savour that the Finns so enjoy. If Moridin entered through Tear, he would have been able to get three answers but not be given three gifts, so why would the Finn allow him the freedom of passage through their realm? And why would they not have tried to capture him, as a channeler should he not have been every bit as tempting as Lanfear or Moiraine if he entered through the tower and was not protected by the treaties?

 

Again, like a number of things I have posted on lately I do not think this is of major significance. It just surprises me that we are all so quick to decide it was Moridin.

Good question, I've often thought it was Slayer myself until everyone began saying it was Moridin which made sense as well. However, he seemed to have the ability to come and go and the description seemed to be too much like he was a regular there or knew the rules, so either of the two applies.

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