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Channeler to Soldier Ratio


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But, again, so what? Even without them noticing that, one holds the leash and the other is leashed. There is already a noticed connection between the two abilities. One can control the other. So they notice that this link is also one that runs in families. Not unreasonable. But, as I asked, so what? If there was really no point you were making with your "A LOT A LOT!", why did you bother saying it? I just though there was something more you were trying to say, that your words had some wider significance than that. That there was actually something you were getting at, that there was a conclusion. Something beyond, if it happens a lot, someone will probably notice it. My mistake. Yes, they will notice it. That noticing will have no significance, and be nothing more than a curiosity.

 

They won't notice that one segment of people produces a large percentage more of people who are considered less than animals? People who's very names are stricken from family records. A segment of people who have a high standing in that same society. By itself it would be enough to stake the very foundations of their society.

 

However that point was very obviously made initially. \

 

But I'll make it more clear for you,

 

You have a portion of the population who enjoy a considerably high standing, including preferential treatment, Then you have a portion of that same population who are reviled, treated less than the animals they keep as pet, and to have one of these people born into your family is a shame, and their very names are stricken from the annals of your history and never spoken of again.

Now you have a portion of the aforementioned society who seem to produce a lot of the latter mentioned portion. Someone would have noticed and connected the dots. Not only would they connect the dots, the conclusions would be enough to rock the very foundations of their society. For some reason, this esteemed population produces the reviled ones. Why is this happening? If this is happening, that must mean there is direct connection, and thus that esteemed population would most likely fall from grace.

Clear enough?

 

I can draw some other correlations if you wish, or a picture or something.

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Alternatively they could think one child got all the luck or good fortune by becoming a sul'dam and left the other one with none as a damane

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Alternatively they could think one child got all the luck or good fortune by becoming a sul'dam and left the other one with none as a damane

 

Sure if it happened once, or even twice. But if it was passed down like that, it would happen a large percentage of the time, which would in theory cause the issues.

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No. If they believed the luck could be seized while in the womb, why would they believe it only happens part of the time? No one in the world of WoT has a part-time belief system. If they come up with a reason that works, why would they try to find problems with it to disturb their entire society?

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Not to mention with names being stricken from the family tree its not like there are a long line of geneologies to keep track of here. A slightly higher percentage of damaane coming out of one part of the social structure would be significant if taken into account over generations, but as it isn't talked about and doesn't seem to be recorded, the overall effect would be reduced significantly.

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Even with 420,000 spears across 11 clans the stats suggest that the Aiel don't find all the potential women channelers.

Eleven clans = 5,500 women channelers = 0.5 per cent so total population =1.1 million

Ridiculously high proportion of 40% plus in active service.

 

The logical conclusion is, most likely, the Aiel have a much larger population and they don't find all women channelers.

 

Is the no. 5,500 as accurate as the no. 420,000 (was 480,000 to start with before battles and bleakness)? The number of spears has its reference; but the estimated no. of WO's at 5500 is speculation based on the number of WO's the Shaido have? Or am I mistaken and there is reference for the 5,500?

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If the birth rate of sparkers is around 1% (I think that is the figure) even if the chance of a sparker birth to a learner is doubled or tripled it would still be hard to detect without systematic record keeping. Say 5% of children born to sul'dam end up damane, that is still rare enough not to cause too much comment, not like it is one in two.

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There are lots of little unbelievable details about the Seanchan not knowing the Sul'dam - Damane connection.

Different topic though.

But here we go.

Every woman in Seanchan is tested from early puberty (or even earlier, given Alivia @11) for the A'dam.

They continue to be tested annually till they're 25. (Bethamn's PoVs)

This is done in a bureaucratic fashion, village by village, town by town with records maintained (the being struck off the rolls business).

So there's a lot of data about this in the "Seanchan ministry for adam testing".

Those who spark are picked up and held as damane.

Those who can control sparkers are marked out as Sul'dam.

Some sul'dam are trained to work with the a'dam.

The chances that some of those sul'dam will step over the edge and be held by the a'dam after they have worked with damane for several years is reasonably high.

We're dealing with large absolute numbers (many millions of women) so, even a small fractional percentage would be a large absolute number.

Somewhere along the line, statisticians in the bureaucracy and clerks etc., involved in doing the testing would have noticed that a significant number of sul'dams turned into damane.

This would especially true for women in the 23-25 age group who were held by the a'dam after having passed several previous tests (women spark early so most sparkers would be picked up before they turned say 23).

It would be knowledge that's difficult to absolutely suppress simply due to the numbers involved.

 

Edit:

About the 40% soldiers ratio, people need to eat, build shelters, and do other things to maintain civilisation. The Aiel are a farming culture with 100% literacy, silversmiths, seamstresses, and other professions.

During the final years of World War I, with a far lower percent of population involved in the war effort, much of Europe ended up malnourished.

I doubt that a ratio of 40% of population permanently under arms is sustainable,

Edited by Sharaman
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The Aiel have no exports. They act as middlemen between Shara and Randland sometimes and there must be mines to get the metal they need, but production isn't a high priority. Agriculture is extremely cetralized, there are few places with enough water to grow plants, what we saw in Cold Rocks would unlikely be enough to sustain the whole hold, though without real seasons you could have constant harvests if you could keep the soil healthy. It makes sense that a large section of the population would have a semi-nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle, atleast rotationally. The ease at which random animals Aviendah kills are incorperated into meals are evidence of this.

 

There is reasonable evidence to suggest that the food grown within the holds is there just to support the essential services, childrearing, blacksmithing, silversmithing and the leadership, with the rest of the population living off the land. This would limit the numbers to more hunter-gatherer levels, but also increases the percentage of population that can be armsmen.

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But, again, so what? Even without them noticing that, one holds the leash and the other is leashed. There is already a noticed connection between the two abilities. One can control the other. So they notice that this link is also one that runs in families. Not unreasonable. But, as I asked, so what? If there was really no point you were making with your "A LOT A LOT!", why did you bother saying it? I just though there was something more you were trying to say, that your words had some wider significance than that. That there was actually something you were getting at, that there was a conclusion. Something beyond, if it happens a lot, someone will probably notice it. My mistake. Yes, they will notice it. That noticing will have no significance, and be nothing more than a curiosity.

 

They won't notice that one segment of people produces a large percentage more of people who are considered less than animals? People who's very names are stricken from family records. A segment of people who have a high standing in that same society. By itself it would be enough to stake the very foundations of their society.

 

However that point was very obviously made initially. \

 

But I'll make it more clear for you,

 

You have a portion of the population who enjoy a considerably high standing, including preferential treatment, Then you have a portion of that same population who are reviled, treated less than the animals they keep as pet, and to have one of these people born into your family is a shame, and their very names are stricken from the annals of your history and never spoken of again.

 

Now you have a portion of the aforementioned society who seem to produce a lot of the latter mentioned portion. Someone would have noticed and connected the dots. Not only would they connect the dots, the conclusions would be enough to rock the very foundations of their society. For some reason, this esteemed population produces the reviled ones. Why is this happening? If this is happening, that must mean there is direct connection, and thus that esteemed population would most likely fall from grace.

 

Clear enough?

 

I can draw some other correlations if you wish, or a picture or something.

Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

Every woman in Seanchan is tested from early puberty (or even earlier, given Alivia @11) for the A'dam.

They continue to be tested annually till they're 25. (Bethamn's PoVs)

This is done in a bureaucratic fashion, village by village, town by town with records maintained (the being struck off the rolls business).

So there's a lot of data about this in the "Seanchan ministry for adam testing".

Those who spark are picked up and held as damane.

Those who can control sparkers are marked out as Sul'dam.

Some sul'dam are trained to work with the a'dam.

The chances that some of those sul'dam will step over the edge and be held by the a'dam after they have worked with damane for several years is reasonably high.

We're dealing with large absolute numbers (many millions of women) so, even a small fractional percentage would be a large absolute number.

Somewhere along the line, statisticians in the bureaucracy and clerks etc., involved in doing the testing would have noticed that a significant number of sul'dams turned into damane.

This would especially true for women in the 23-25 age group who were held by the a'dam after having passed several previous tests (women spark early so most sparkers would be picked up before they turned say 23).

It would be knowledge that's difficult to absolutely suppress simply due to the numbers involved.

Even if you have spent many years as a sul'dam, you haven't necessarily spent long enough training damane to be held. Remember, there are far more sul'dam than there are damane. It takes a lot of time spent with the a'dam over a number of years to be held. It could easily be the case that only a very tiny handful are capable of being held by the a'dam by the age of 25. Also, do they even continue testing sul'dam?
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Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

It was explained, in... I really can't recall. I know it's not book 2, because I just finished that. So it must be when the girls get to Tanicho or whatever. It's when they discussed the honor of having a suldam in the family and the record striking and what not.

 

Your opinion is your opinion and has no bearing on my conclusion. I stand by it.

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Not to mention with names being stricken from the family tree its not like there are a long line of geneologies to keep track of here. A slightly higher percentage of damaane coming out of one part of the social structure would be significant if taken into account over generations, but as it isn't talked about and doesn't seem to be recorded, the overall effect would be reduced significantly.

 

Sure, in isolated incidents, but we were discussing the posibility of Suldam's living in groups together, and how that would affect it. And heck, we didn't even throw out the issue of having more men born and spakers and going crazy. Another thing that would easily be noticed. Wasn't the stigma of having a male channeler discussed in book 2 in Randland. Imagine that on a bigger scale.

 

Sharaman gets it.

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Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

It was explained, in... I really can't recall. I know it's not book 2, because I just finished that. So it must be when the girls get to Tanicho or whatever. It's when they discussed the honor of having a suldam in the family and the record striking and what not.

That's not really evidence to support you, is it? The only reference I can find as yet is that they are struck from the family records. Not that there is any attendant shame on the family. And you don't even touch on my reasoning, you simply dismiss my conclusion out of hand.
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But, again, so what? Even without them noticing that, one holds the leash and the other is leashed. There is already a noticed connection between the two abilities. One can control the other. So they notice that this link is also one that runs in families. Not unreasonable. But, as I asked, so what? If there was really no point you were making with your "A LOT A LOT!", why did you bother saying it? I just though there was something more you were trying to say, that your words had some wider significance than that. That there was actually something you were getting at, that there was a conclusion. Something beyond, if it happens a lot, someone will probably notice it. My mistake. Yes, they will notice it. That noticing will have no significance, and be nothing more than a curiosity.

 

They won't notice that one segment of people produces a large percentage more of people who are considered less than animals? People who's very names are stricken from family records. A segment of people who have a high standing in that same society. By itself it would be enough to stake the very foundations of their society.

 

However that point was very obviously made initially. \

 

But I'll make it more clear for you,

 

You have a portion of the population who enjoy a considerably high standing, including preferential treatment, Then you have a portion of that same population who are reviled, treated less than the animals they keep as pet, and to have one of these people born into your family is a shame, and their very names are stricken from the annals of your history and never spoken of again.

 

Now you have a portion of the aforementioned society who seem to produce a lot of the latter mentioned portion. Someone would have noticed and connected the dots. Not only would they connect the dots, the conclusions would be enough to rock the very foundations of their society. For some reason, this esteemed population produces the reviled ones. Why is this happening? If this is happening, that must mean there is direct connection, and thus that esteemed population would most likely fall from grace.

 

Clear enough?

 

I can draw some other correlations if you wish, or a picture or something.

Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

Every woman in Seanchan is tested from early puberty (or even earlier, given Alivia @11) for the A'dam.

They continue to be tested annually till they're 25. (Bethamn's PoVs)

This is done in a bureaucratic fashion, village by village, town by town with records maintained (the being struck off the rolls business).

So there's a lot of data about this in the "Seanchan ministry for adam testing".

Those who spark are picked up and held as damane.

Those who can control sparkers are marked out as Sul'dam.

Some sul'dam are trained to work with the a'dam.

The chances that some of those sul'dam will step over the edge and be held by the a'dam after they have worked with damane for several years is reasonably high.

We're dealing with large absolute numbers (many millions of women) so, even a small fractional percentage would be a large absolute number.

Somewhere along the line, statisticians in the bureaucracy and clerks etc., involved in doing the testing would have noticed that a significant number of sul'dams turned into damane.

This would especially true for women in the 23-25 age group who were held by the a'dam after having passed several previous tests (women spark early so most sparkers would be picked up before they turned say 23).

It would be knowledge that's difficult to absolutely suppress simply due to the numbers involved.

Even if you have spent many years as a sul'dam, you haven't necessarily spent long enough training damane to be held. Remember, there are far more sul'dam than there are damane. It takes a lot of time spent with the a'dam over a number of years to be held. It could easily be the case that only a very tiny handful are capable of being held by the a'dam by the age of 25. Also, do they even continue testing sul'dam?

 

Mr Ares - I believe the point is not the shame part of sul'dam having damane children. The point is that someone would have to notice the connection between sul'dam having a much higher percentage of children that become damane. This connection should lead to the discovery of sul'dam being channelers. Then finding out that the people that control the "animals" are themselves "animals" would rock the Seachan world.

 

The only argument I can think of against this discovery is that with the way Seachan is ruled, this information should be very easy to cover up if the higher ups were to have discovered it and wanted to keep it a secret from the people.

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Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

It was explained, in... I really can't recall. I know it's not book 2, because I just finished that. So it must be when the girls get to Tanicho or whatever. It's when they discussed the honor of having a suldam in the family and the record striking and what not.

That's not really evidence to support you, is it? The only reference I can find as yet is that they are struck from the family records. Not that there is any attendant shame on the family. And you don't even touch on my reasoning, you simply dismiss my conclusion out of hand.

 

You provided no reasoning.

 

You merely stated "Nuh-Uh" to my post. Why would I bother to touch upon that? I wasted enough of my time as it was because you claimed it wasn't explained well enough for you, although other people obviously understood it considering we were discussing it. When you provide a valid point, other than, "Nuh-Uh" then I'll respond.

 

Clear enough?

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Mr Ares - I believe the point is not the shame part of sul'dam having damane children. The point is that someone would have to notice the connection between sul'dam having a much higher percentage of children that become damane. This connection should lead to the discovery of sul'dam being channelers. Then finding out that the people that control the "animals" are themselves "animals" would rock the Seachan world.

 

The only argument I can think of against this discovery is that with the way Seachan is ruled, this information should be very easy to cover up if the higher ups were to have discovered it and wanted to keep it a secret from the people.

Firstly, that is not the point Vardarmus made. He made the point that the shame of damane children would lead to sul'dam having a fall from grace. If there is no shame, there is no point. And there is no evidence of shame. However, to address the point you make, it does not follow that a high number of damane children leads to the conclusion that sul'dam can channel. That requires a further piece of evidence, one the Seanchan lack - that it is possible to learn to channel. As it is, lots of damane being born to sul'dam leads only to the conclusion that there is a genetic link between the ability to channel and the ability to control channelers. Hence my initial "so what?".

 

Thank you, my friend, you have taught me a valuable lesson: if people are initially reluctant to share their reasoning, I should pester them until they do. Now, as I have said, they will notice that there is a link, but nothing follows from that. Why would the connections rock the foundations of their society? The sul'dam are valued for their ability to control damane. Thus, if there are many damane born into sul'dam families, then fundamentally nothing changes. Sul'dam are as valued as they ever were. I don't recall any mention in the series of any shame being attached to the family from having a damane born into it - the damane are removed from family records, yes, but that's it, as far as I recall. So there is no reason for the sul'dam to fall from grace. Thus your conclusion is wrong. It might be noticed that it happens a lot, but there is no reason for this to have wider significance on Seanchan culture.

 

It was explained, in... I really can't recall. I know it's not book 2, because I just finished that. So it must be when the girls get to Tanicho or whatever. It's when they discussed the honor of having a suldam in the family and the record striking and what not.

That's not really evidence to support you, is it? The only reference I can find as yet is that they are struck from the family records. Not that there is any attendant shame on the family. And you don't even touch on my reasoning, you simply dismiss my conclusion out of hand.

 

You provided no reasoning.

I did. I said that the sul'dam's value to society (the basis of their high status in society) is based on their ability to control channelers, something which remains unchanged. Therefore the conclusion that the shame (which you have provided no evidence of) of having lots of damane in the family would lead to those that control damane suffering a significant loss of face (or having lowered eyes), and would therefore rock Seanchan culture, was unwarranted.

 

I wasted enough of my time as it was because you claimed it wasn't explained well enough for you, although other people obviously understood it considering we were discussing it.
That point? No. Before I asked so what, no-one had touched on that point. Since then, no-one has touched on that point. No-one other than me has touched on that point. That doesn't paint a picture of it being clear to everyone but me.
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Firstly, that is not the point Vardarmus made. He made the point that the shame of damane children would lead to sul'dam having a fall from grace. If there is no shame, there is no point. And there is no evidence of shame. However, to address the point you make, it does not follow that a high number of damane children leads to the conclusion that sul'dam can channel. That requires a further piece of evidence, one the Seanchan lack - that it is possible to learn to channel. As it is, lots of damane being born to sul'dam leads only to the conclusion that there is a genetic link between the ability to channel and the ability to control channelers. Hence my initial "so what?".

 

That was the exact point I made. Go reread. Look, someone else understood it.

 

The further piece of evidence is the logical jump, and it's not even that far of a leap. Tuon knew of it, from her response to Mat. Others' would have figured it out.

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Mr Ares - I believe the point is not the shame part of sul'dam having damane children. The point is that someone would have to notice the connection between sul'dam having a much higher percentage of children that become damane. This connection should lead to the discovery of sul'dam being channelers. Then finding out that the people that control the "animals" are themselves "animals" would rock the Seachan world.

 

The only argument I can think of against this discovery is that with the way Seachan is ruled, this information should be very easy to cover up if the higher ups were to have discovered it and wanted to keep it a secret from the people.

Firstly, that is not the point Vardarmus made. He made the point that the shame of damane children would lead to sul'dam having a fall from grace. If there is no shame, there is no point. And there is no evidence of shame. However, to address the point you make, it does not follow that a high number of damane children leads to the conclusion that sul'dam can channel. That requires a further piece of evidence, one the Seanchan lack - that it is possible to learn to channel. As it is, lots of damane being born to sul'dam leads only to the conclusion that there is a genetic link between the ability to channel and the ability to control channelers. Hence my initial "so what?".

 

Okay the "shame" part of your argument may just be an issue of semantics. What I said is the way I took what Vardarmus said.

 

And I do not think it would be very difficult for people to start putting the pieces together. Do you think that none of the Seachan have the ability to think?

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Mr Ares - I believe the point is not the shame part of sul'dam having damane children. The point is that someone would have to notice the connection between sul'dam having a much higher percentage of children that become damane. This connection should lead to the discovery of sul'dam being channelers. Then finding out that the people that control the "animals" are themselves "animals" would rock the Seachan world.

 

The only argument I can think of against this discovery is that with the way Seachan is ruled, this information should be very easy to cover up if the higher ups were to have discovered it and wanted to keep it a secret from the people.

Firstly, that is not the point Vardarmus made. He made the point that the shame of damane children would lead to sul'dam having a fall from grace. If there is no shame, there is no point. And there is no evidence of shame. However, to address the point you make, it does not follow that a high number of damane children leads to the conclusion that sul'dam can channel. That requires a further piece of evidence, one the Seanchan lack - that it is possible to learn to channel. As it is, lots of damane being born to sul'dam leads only to the conclusion that there is a genetic link between the ability to channel and the ability to control channelers. Hence my initial "so what?".

 

Okay the "shame" part of your argument may just be an issue of semantics. What I said is the way I took what Vardarmus said.

 

And I do not think it would be very difficult for people to start putting the pieces together. Do you think that none of the Seachan have the ability to think?

 

Pretty sure that's the basis of his argument. They're all so stupid, they can't reach a logical conclusion.

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It isn't stupidity to have a blind spot. Everyone has some sacred cow that they can't slaughter.

 

Sul'dam would also have a higher ratio of learner children to be Sul'dam. There isn't any real reason to say that the rates are noticeable at all. RJ said that the rate of channelers used to be 5% in the AoL and due to remarkably effective culling measures of the AS has dropped to 3%. While that is a forty percent reduction in relative channeler birthrate it is only a two percent reduction in absolute terms.

 

Without knowing more about the genetics it is pretty much impossible to say what the deviation between learners and normals is in regards to sparker birthrate. If it close enough you would need someone doing a statistical analysis to show that it were true and that maths probably hasn't been discovered in WoT outside the Tower.

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Remember that one 1% of the population are channellers, perhaps 1.5-2% in Seanchan. The numbers would not be highly noticeable. Yes, there would be more sul'dam breeding damane (if this is indeed a part of it, I don't think it has been confirmed, only speculated as the likely explanation), however, not like every second family would have 90% damane children.

 

Instead of 1 in 100 children of sul'dam being channellers, it might be 5 or so. Still a small percentage, and not something easily tracked, it would take decades perhaps as much as 100 years to actually see a noticeable distinction between the two.

 

Public access to these records, I would imagine, would be limited, so not everyone would know about this. Only a select few would be able to access the records and study them sufficiently to come to a conclusion. If they did come to such a conclusion, they would most likely be killed by the Seekers, as we see with Egeanin, who is being investigated. If it was mainland Seanchan, and not in such...unique circumstances, where Egeanin actually witnessed this first hand, not having spent years of study, which would rouse suspicion, I would say anyone who even suspected this connection would be executed.

 

Plus, there is no reason for any of the Seanchan, bar the damane, who couldn't possibly do such investigation, who would even WANT to contemplate such a connection. Sul'dam are honoured, damane are vile creatures. They test women and leash ones who can channel with expert efficiency. Why would any Seanchan risk the wrath of the Blood to uncover a secret that would help people they consider little more than dogs, and shame those who are honoured above most? The system they have is perfect (for the Seanchan people), there is no need to experiment or explore other options.

 

Side notes, do sul'dam actually wed and have children, I can't recall any mention in the text of a sul'dam's husband. They are always alone with damane, and do not mention children or family.

 

The upper tiers of Seanchan probably already know about this, those with access to the information required. Tuon knows, or at least suspected, yet we see her attitudes on the matter. It doesn't shake her world really. They most likely cover it up and keep it from being exposed to the masses, who would be the ones to go crazy over it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Seekers were formed to keep this hidden, way back when.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Every woman in Seanchan is tested from early puberty (or even earlier, given Alivia @11) for the A'dam.

They continue to be tested annually till they're 25. (Bethamn's PoVs)

This is done in a bureaucratic fashion, village by village, town by town with records maintained (the being struck off the rolls business).

So there's a lot of data about this in the "Seanchan ministry for adam testing".

Those who spark are picked up and held as damane.

Those who can control sparkers are marked out as Sul'dam.

Some sul'dam are trained to work with the a'dam.

The chances that some of those sul'dam will step over the edge and be held by the a'dam after they have worked with damane for several years is reasonably high.

We're dealing with large absolute numbers (many millions of women) so, even a small fractional percentage would be a large absolute number.

Somewhere along the line, statisticians in the bureaucracy and clerks etc., involved in doing the testing would have noticed that a significant number of sul'dams turned into damane.

This would especially true for women in the 23-25 age group who were held by the a'dam after having passed several previous tests (women spark early so most sparkers would be picked up before they turned say 23).

It would be knowledge that's difficult to absolutely suppress simply due to the numbers involved.

Even if you have spent many years as a sul'dam, you haven't necessarily spent long enough training damane to be held. Remember, there are far more sul'dam than there are damane. It takes a lot of time spent with the a'dam over a number of years to be held. It could easily be the case that only a very tiny handful are capable of being held by the a'dam by the age of 25. Also, do they even continue testing sul'dam?

 

Yes they do continue testing Sul'dam - every woman is tested till she's 25 Bethamin's PoV in WH (IIRC) makes that clear.

The point is not that a very small percentage of sul'dam would be held by the a'dam. The point is that almost every woman over say 23, who was held by the a'dam would be a registered sul'dam.

Reasoning. Women spark early. The sparkers are identified and leashed early.

By the time women are 23 (maybe earlier) there are no sparkers left. The only women (or a very high percent of the women) over 23 who would be held would be sul'dam who had gone over the edge.

Since women in the later years who were held by the a'dam would be mostly registered sul'dams and the Seanchan keep records, this would have been noticed.

Since we're dealing with very large absolute numbers, it would be a significant absolute.number.

Say, the Seanchan register that say 20 women in the 23-25 age group were held on average each year, and on average say, 17 of them were registered sul'dams in training, I think they'd have noticed.

 

Edit: This is quite apart from the fact that woman are tested both ways at the same time. Sometime along the line it may have been noted that women who tested positive as sul'dam also very often tested positive as damane. Unless you have a rigid ritual where you always test a batch for damane first, and only then test the same bunch of women for sul'dam ability after leashing and removing the damane.

Edited by Sharaman
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I do recall the Seanchan KNOW Damane can be in control of the link. IIRC they said something like 'the A'dam was useful, but it only went truly good when the first Sul'dam were found'. Thus, they know Damane can control other Damane, they know there's a strong connection. I can't remember where it was, world of WOT or TGH I think.

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I do recall the Seanchan KNOW Damane can be in control of the link. IIRC they said something like 'the A'dam was useful, but it only went truly good when the first Sul'dam were found'. Thus, they know Damane can control other Damane, they know there's a strong connection. I can't remember where it was, world of WOT or TGH I think.

 

The BWB claims Luthair knew but that the knowledge was lost over time.

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