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TreeJoe

Berelain's Irony - Everyone else got this, right?

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All right, I'm not a frequent dragonmounter and I haven't read every thread on every topic, but i had to post this...

 

Did anyone else see the awesome irony in Berelain complaining to Faile that she had been "promised Perrin" and that she knew she had to form a close tie to the Dragon Reborn as part of the protection of Mayene.

 

That she has been focused on Perrin for that reason and that once she gave up Perrin she became worried about how to protect Mayene (except through Perrin's leadership and connection to the Dragon).

 

....

 

But then she goes and falls head over heels for Rand's half-brother, who happens to be the Uncle of the Dragon Reborn's children through Elayne as well.

 

When I took a step back and thought about the irony of it, I loved it. She's more closely tied to the Dragon with Galad (through how politicians measure these things) than she ever would have been with Perrin.

 

Maybe totally obvious, but I had to share :)

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I agree with you... sort of.

 

I definitely agree with you on how ironic and funny that after hasseling Perrin(good mate of the DR) shes now in love with the half brother of Rand. Furthermore the more i think about it, the fact that Galad and Rand met in Book 1, galad immediately(although unknowingly) acting the older sibling, and telling on the younger for doing the wrong thing, the funnier it gets.

 

But i think shes tied herself to rand with a lesser bond than if shed woed Perrin. Perrin=Friend of DR, adviser, confidant etc etc.-----V----- Galad=Half brother, no relationship, by a mother who bailed because she was told too and fell in love with another man.

 

If anything, Galad may resent Rand because of what he represents in regards to their mother...an Aiel. Tigraine bailed, left Galad to go join the Aiel. Doesnt really set the tone for a good relationship...therefore Berelain has a lesser bond to rand than she maybe could have had.

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Bear in mind that Tigraine abandoned Andor at the instigation of Gitara Moroso, who told her that 'disaster would befall the world' if she didn't go. Or so we hear from Amys, who said that Tigraine / Shaiel was bitter about having to leave her husband and son behind (TSR34). Dyelin tells Rand that Shaiel and Tigraine are one and the same, and about the 'rumours' in Andor that Gitara was responsible for Tigraine's departure (LoC16). If Dyelin knows, that probably means that others including Galad know as well.

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I still want Gawyn to die, Egwene to hook up with Galad, and Berelain to shave her head and join the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings for the latter, by the way, and also good ones for the first two. But Brandon seemed to think it was funny. (The Egwene+Galad thing anyway.) :madmyrddraal:

Edited by Terez

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Sure, but he also planted seeds for Galad and Egwene, and for Gawyn's death, and Min said there was nothing in her viewing to indicate that the man in white would return Berelain's affection, much less that they would live happily ever after together. I'm not saying it's incredibly likely that it will happen, but there is plenty of foreshadowing to work with there.

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But RJ also planted seeds for Rand and Egwene. I'm sure he had at least one sentence in his notes that said Egwene and Gawyn get together. He would have definitely planned that out

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In terms of getting useful political connections through marrying him, Galad beats Perrin even if the fact that Tigraine is Rand's mother never becomes known to her. By marrying Galad Berelain would become a sister-in-law to the Amyrlin Seat and the Queen of Andor and Cairhien. It also gives her a close tie to the king of Tear Darlin since Caraline Damodred will marry him. She would still have a connection to Rand through Elayne. And of course Galad himself leads the Whitecloacks, which is also politically useful.

 

Though the whole thing about Perrin being promised to Berelain by Rand seems like a retcon to me. Berelain only started chasing Perrin when Faile angered her back in TSR. It didn't seem political at all. And why didn't Berelain give up on the chase when Perrin got married to a high Lady of Saldaea?

 

But it's quite ironic how all of the Two Rivers crew ended up paired up with high nobility without ever trying to secure political advantages this way (or in Mat's case, trying their best to run away from such a thing). When Berelain hears who the 5 of them ended up with, she'd probably think Two Rivers people are the most calculating in Randland when it comes to marriage.

Edited by David Selig

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In terms of getting useful political connections through marrying him, Galad beats Perrin even if the fact that Tigraine is Rand's mother never becomes known to her. By marrying Galad Berelain would become a sister-in-law to the Amyrlin Seat and the Queen of Andor and Cairhien. It also gives her a close tie to the king of Tear Darlin since Caraline Damodred will marry him. She would still have a connection to Rand through Elayne. And of course Galad himself leads the Whitecloacks, which is also politically useful.

 

Though the whole thing about Perrin being promised to Berelain by Rand seems like a retcon to me. Berelain only started chasing Perrin when Faile angered her back in TSR. It didn't seem political at all. And why didn't Berelain give up on the chase when Perrin got married to a high Lady of Saldaea?

 

But it's quite ironic how all of the Two Rivers crew ended up paired up with high nobility without ever trying to secure political advantages this way (or in mat's case, trying their best to run away from such a thing). When Berelain hears who the 5 of them ended up with, she'd probably think Two Rivers people are the most calculating in Randland when it comes to marriage.

 

The last paragraph is an interesting point. Never really thought about that. Damn.

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But it's quite ironic how all of the Two Rivers crew ended up paired up with high nobility without ever trying to secure political advantages this way (or in Mat's case, trying their best to run away from such a thing). When Berelain hears who the 5 of them ended up with, she'd probably think Two Rivers people are the most calculating in Randland when it comes to marriage.

 

I'd say it's obvious 'coincidence' induced by the Ta'veren. The only two EoTW-crew marriages that aren't exceedingly smart, politically, are Rand/Min and Thom/Moiraine. I suppose the only better way could've been for Rand to marry Tuon, Elayne and Aviendha, and Mat to marry a High Lady of Tear that got the crown, rather than Darlin.

 

But yes, Berelain's is also kind of ironic. I do wonder if anyone will find out before the end; I suppose Zen-Rand might tell Elayne to give their kids a leg up in the Andoran bloodline race (since the children are then also descendants of Ishara by the better Mantear line).

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They all die in the end (everyone dies it's a proven fact...)

There are no endings in the turnings of the Wheel ;)

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Whoever ends up with Berelain is one lucky bugger! RJ wrote her very well. She is lethal, very beautiful, very smart, extremely willful and stubborn, highly adaptable, and extremely loyal. She's is one of the best female characters in the books.

Edited by Theodril

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Have you not read TOM? It was foreshadowed before then, when Min said Berelain would fall head over heels for a man in white.

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Rand knows that he and Galad are half brothers and i believe that he will tell Galad this as soon as they meet.

I also believe Galad will embrace him as a brother. Galad is alot of things but he does care for his family and wants to have a relationship with them. He is very loyal even though he will rat you out for your own good.

 

Berelain certainly improved her political Situation. She is now tied to he family of the Dragon, the Queen of Andor/Cairhien, and the last Queen of Andor who was highly influencial. Plus she still has ties to Perrin and the Two Rivers and i believe they will remain an ally to her.

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It is funny, Berelain is perhaps the most well connected woman in the world at this point.

 

Through Perrin, Alliandre, Morgase, Faile (although Faile probably won't want to help her any)

 

Galad and what that relationship brings as mentioned above.

 

Rand himself from Cairhien.

 

The Aiel, and whatever strange relationship they have with her, it has made them fond of her in any case.

 

Also with the Seanchan, having the name of Paendrag grants her esteem in their eyes.

 

All she needs now is for her mother to be from Shara and a long lost cousin to turn up in the LoM and she can rule the world!

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I've never liked the Berelain sub-plot. I sort of understood her motives, but at some point I think she would have decided "He's not worth the trouble" (ie, when she found out he was married to Faile).

 

Instead of trying to flirt (or worse) with him, as he is a very practical person, perhaps she could have said:

 

"Hey, Perrin, I am the ruler of a pretty weak kingdom and need all the allies I can get. I want to be allies with the Dragon Reborn, and I think I am, but to prove to the world that we are allies, I need to be close allies with some of his friends. I see that you are going on a campaign, perhaps my forces can join yours. I know that you have no love of titles or banners, but if we fly mine - along with yours, your men seem to like it - that will meet my goals and prevent your wife and I from having a questionably written cat fight 4 books from now. Also, it will remove a plot device that I don't think most people will like. Yes, I do speak as if I am a character in a novel sometimes."

 

"I completely understand, I do the same. Sometimes I think that I am being sent on this journey so that I can have a personal trial and realize that I am a leader no matter how hard I run from it, and that really, things will be easier for everyone around me once I embrace what I am destined to become."

 

"Good, I'm glad that we agree. Can I kiss you anyway?"

 

"Don't push it; my character is insanely loyal."

 

"I had to ask."

 

"I know."

 

"Wine?"

 

"Please."

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I've never liked the Berelain sub-plot. I sort of understood her motives, but at some point I think she would have decided "He's not worth the trouble" (ie, when she found out he was married to Faile).

 

Instead of trying to flirt (or worse) with him, as he is a very practical person, perhaps she could have said:

 

RJ has a deep insight into both genders, and I can say without a doubt that this is VERY characteristic of some women. For a powerful and tactful woman, she might see herself vs. Faile as the final two in a "Rock of Love" type contest.

 

Also I have to agree that this isn't true irony, more the Allanis Morisette kind of "ironic", but still a very adept observation.

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what I find kind of humorous is that Rand and Elayns children will have one uncle who shares both their mother and fathers side :) Unless by some strange occurance Thom ends up being her father. (which if possible, would be cool, but would start a succesion war again prob.)

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what I find kind of humorous is that Rand and Elayns children will have one uncle who shares both their mother and fathers side :) Unless by some strange occurance Thom ends up being her father. (which if possible, would be cool, but would start a succesion war again prob.)

I doubt it since she is already firmly in power and has shown herself to be competant, and Morgase won the last war of succession so she is the new ruling family, it would pass to Elayne no matter (remember elayne says it wouldn't be the first time the consort had no title before marriage)

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I always got the impression that a large part of Perrin's attraction for Berelain was that Faile was so possessive. In Tear when Mat told her off for not speaking to him, she actually considered him, then decided he was too much like herself. The more jealous Failie became and by threatening Berelain pushed all her buttons. Of course Berelain did come to really like the way Perrin conducted his life and the care he took of his people must have been fascinating for her. Especially after Rand scared the crap out of her (which was brilliant).

 

I think the pattern wove Galad and Berelain together - they both fell for each immediately - shown when they both were staring at each other and handed their tea cups to Alliandre who already had her own in her hand was hilarious. Man, they're going to have gorgeous kids but with crazy points of view; Galad so inflexible and always doing the right and obvious thing, and Berelain being devious, sly and amoral. Irony or yin and yang?

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