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Shig

What would the creator do if the Dark One got free?

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So just as the title states, what do you think would happen to the creator if the dark one defeated the dragon and fully escaped his prison. Yes we all know its extremely unlikely, if not completely not happening that the creator takes a hand in preventing the DO's release, but obviously the creator had enough sense to lock away his polar opposite at the moment of creation, would he do so again if the DO got free and started ripping everything up? Or would the creator be imprisoned when the DO destroys the pattern? as we could look at it as, if ones free the other can't be...or alternatively would the creator just keel over and die? Seems like this is a question for philosophers, so...opinions?

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I've been also wondering about that question latley... I think that the first thing we should ask ourselves is whether the creator can actually lock the Do again? is he strong enough? theoretically the creator and the DO are equals, it could be that the creator manage to lock him the first time by luck using the element of surprise.. but let's say the creator can do it again, i don't think he will stand by the side and watch the how the DO destroys the pattern, and thus basically destroys the whole creation. Rand actually said once

The Creator had made the world and then left

humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator

had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A

gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.

 

now a gardener may not "weep for each blossom that fell" but if a pest (i.e. the DO) comes and starts to eat and destroy all of the flowers the gardener will not just let it destroy his garden but pesticide the flower beds. (well maybe that's not the best metaphor since the DO is slightly worse than a pest and much harder to beat but you get what i mean)

what will happen if it comes to a face to face confrontation between the DO and the creator- who knows? it could be that the DO will win and everything seized to exist, could be that creator will overcome the DO- maybe even slay him rather than lock him again- but many worlds will be destroyed in the process- maybe the damage will be so extensive that even though the creator won the pattern will be destroyed after all...

 

but maybe i'm wrong- who knows how the creator thinks? could be he doesn't care one bit about what will happen to the pattern...

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I always thought if it fails the creator will just make another one. He not really being sealed away just the bully who comes over to destroy the kids stuff :P

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This is assuming that this is the only universe that was created. Lets say you are a kid and build a Lego set, and set it off in a room. Your friend doesn't like it, and tries (eventually successfully) to break into the room and destroys it. He turns to you and yells "HA!" You shrug and build another.

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Well the real question is if the DO escapes does he escape in every other world also? I forgot who said that, maybe Verin?

 

If the DO escapes but is confined to Rand's world, then I dont think the Creator will care. But if the DO escapes in every world the Creator will need to step in.

 

And if you believe Moridin that the Dragon has been turned to the Dark One's side before than the Creator had to step in to stop him. Because if the Creator didn't step in, the Pattern would unravel and there wouldn't be another dragon to defeat the DO so the Creator would have to step in. I don't see any other possible way to stop him without the dragon.

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The creator created the dark one. the creator is an analogue to God, with a capital, if he can create it he can defeat it. the reason for sealing the DO away at the moment of creation is to give people the ability to choose one or the other, to provide the balance of Chaos and Disorder against Peace and Order - or in a more human sense, Good vs. Evil (the DO is not inherently evil, he is just the manifestation of Disorder. Evil stems from the selfishness aspect of this). If the DO is constantly destroying creation, there is no balance, only chaos.

 

So if the DO finally wins and breaks free, then either the creator will step in, build a new universe from scratch with the same (or new) DO imprisoned, and let man sort it all out for himself once again, or existence as we know it will be over, for good.

 

"What care does a gardner have if one of his roses gets ruined? he"ll just plant a new one." Or in this case, he can start all over with a new garden. but in the meantime, Randland will be gone, kaput.

 

And if you believe Moridin that the Dragon has been turned to the Dark One's side before than the Creator had to step in to stop him. Because if the Creator didn't step in, the Pattern would unravel and there wouldn't be another dragon to defeat the DO so the Creator would have to step in. I don't see any other possible way to stop him without the dragon.

Every person is reborn from past lives, as new selves with new existences. rarely does it happen that a person will remember previous lives, with a few notable exceptions.

The person who was born as Rand has lived previous lives as a darkfriend, but not as the Dragon or the Dragon Reborn

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Well the real question is if the DO escapes does he escape in every other world also? I forgot who said that, maybe Verin?

 

I think, you are referring to this:

 

“No, child. There is one Creator, who exists everywhere at once for all of these worlds. In the same way, there is only one Dark One, who also exists in all of these worlds at once. If he is freed from the prison the Creator made in one world, he is freed on all. So long as he is kept prisoner in one, he remains imprisoned on all.”

 

The worlds she speaks of are Rand's world and all the other worlds that can (or cannot) be accessed by Portal Stones, i.e. He exists across all of the Pattern.

I don't think Tel'aran'rhiod is included in this (Verin: there is a third constant besides the Dark One and the Creator. The Aes Sedai called it TAR)

 

 

Every person is reborn from past lives, as new selves with new existences. rarely does it happen that a person will remember previous lives, with a few notable exceptions.

The person who was born as Rand has lived previous lives as a darkfriend, but not as the Dragon or the Dragon Reborn

 

The sole purpose of Rand's soul is to combat the Shadow. The wheel only spins him out when he is needed.

 

 

 

In answer to the OP, I don't think the Creator would do anything. I don't think he can. His entry into the Pattern would disrupt the balance (Creation & Champion vs DO & his Champion: no space for the Creator) and, imo, do something bad, as would the DO.

 

Assuming it is the Creator, He says this:

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

Ergo, nothing. As others have suggested, He's the Creator, He can create another world. Not much to it.

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The creator created the dark one. the creator is an analogue to God, with a capital, if he can create it he can defeat it.

 

Not true. According to RJ the DO is the dark balance/antithesis to the Creator. They both exist outside the pattern.

Interview: Jun 26th, 1996

Compuserve Chat (Verbatim)

 

Martin Reznick

How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.?

 

Robert Jordan

I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator...carrying on the theme, the ying yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books. It's somewhat Manichean i know, but I think it works.

 

And if you believe Moridin that the Dragon has been turned to the Dark One's side before than the Creator had to step in to stop him. Because if the Creator didn't step in, the Pattern would unravel and there wouldn't be another dragon to defeat the DO so the Creator would have to step in. I don't see any other possible way to stop him without the dragon.

 

Nope. The creator takes no part. We know that beyond a doubt. In the past when the Dragon has turned the DO has just has not had a total victory. The result has been a draw or lesser victory.

Edited by Suttree

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Perhaps it'll result in the Creator turning to his best friend (The Dark One) and saying "Well done. It only took you 44 million revolutions that time. Care for another game?"

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Perhaps it'll result in the Creator turning to his best friend (The Dark One) and saying "Well done. It only took you 44 million revolutions that time. Care for another game?"

I see it more in this way, with them layin bets

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Perhaps it'll result in the Creator turning to his best friend (The Dark One) and saying "Well done. It only took you 44 million revolutions that time. Care for another game?"

I see it more in this way, with them layin bets

 

lol, that's funny, maybe it's an on-going argument between the two of them. The creator creates a world of peace and harmony, the DO has to break out using chaos and disorder. Then they switch it up and the creator has to try and break out using peace and harmony to overwhelm a world of discord. Too bad there's a lot I can think of right now that doesn't make any sense with the idea.

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In my opinion He would use human and the like to war against the creator . Using is chosen to make use the one power against him , wich was why , still in my opinion , Morridin wanted so badly Rand's Sa'Angreal

A cynical mind could say that the purpose of creation is to bind the Do and to war against him too.

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I believe the Creator, DO and Dragon to be patterned on the Hindu Trinity of Brahma the Creator, Shiva the destroyer, and Vishnu the Preserver.

 

The three gods represent the three fundamental powers of nature which are manifest in the world viz. creation, destruction and maintenance. These powers exist perpetually. Creation is going on all the time. So is destruction and maintenance. All three powers are manifest at all times. They are inseparable. Creation and destruction are like two sides of a coin. And maintenance is an integral part of the processes of creation and destruction.

 

Occasionally, the balance of power is upset in favor of evil, and then Lord Vishnu is believed to descend to earth in a mortal form (his avatar) to save humankind or the world.

 

The difference is that Shiva is in harmony with the other 2(creation and destruction being part of an infinite cycle), the DO is not.

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Lol

Perhaps it'll result in the Creator turning to his best friend (The Dark One) and saying "Well done. It only took you 44 million revolutions that time. Care for another game?"

I see it more in this way, with them layin bets

This reminds me of the series lost :) Good times

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The person who was born as Rand has lived previous lives as a darkfriend, but not as the Dragon or the Dragon Reborn

 

The Dragon's soul? As a Darkfriend? Is there any proof of that?

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Probably nothing.

 

The whole situation with the Dark One being bound doesn't really make much sense to begin with. If he's the Creator's equal then there's no way the Creator could have overpowered and bound him in the first place. Ergo he must be weaker in some fashion.

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If the DO gets free, I think Bela would simply recreate the prison and make a new Pattern, and start again. The Pattern as we know it would be dead, though.

 

No, no, no. Bela is the Dark One.

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