How will they EVER make Rand feel normal emotion again?

[Cam]

Cadsuanne (sp) and Sorielia talked about it....

"IF Rand Al Thhor does not remember how to laugh and cry his victory might be as bitter as his defeat"-Sorelia-> something to that extent...so what i want to know is how the hell will they do it? maybe put one of his wives in jeapordy....i dont know, do you?

[The Lord of Thunder]

perhaps they will Heal him of his chronic insaneatosis.

[Egwene alVere_1987]

i'm not sure how they will heal him to be happy and feel emotion again but maybe the birth of his child (note: i haven't read the latest book so if that has occured im unawares til i read the book) or mabe like was suggested they will put one of his wives in danger.

[Chosen_Graendal]

I was thinking Rand might have an encounter with Tam.

[fader6818]

I have a really general view of it. I think if Cads puts Elayne/Min/Avi in danger, Rand will just kill her and be done with it. He's cold like that...

 

But what I think will turn the tides for Rand is duty. Rand's mantra "death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain" has been the key to his icyness, he has an obligation and he must meet it.

 

However, I think Rand will come to a point where he has two possible outcomes, say

 

1. Send Tam's army into battle, knowing he will die, but allowing something beneficial to happen.

 

2. Send his pledged Aes Sedai into battle, knowing they will die, but allowing something beneficial to happen.

 

Rand doesn't know which one will work best, only that SOMETHING has to be done. He can steel his nerves and Kill Tam, or steel his nerves and kill the women. It will be the reminder of emotion, of the love he has for Tam, that makes the decision, and he sends the Aes Sedai to their deaths. Unavoidable deaths, yes, because of that duty, but EMOTION will choose to keep his father alive, when there was no other deciding factor.

 

And Rand will weep for the Aes Sedai.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Both possible. But those are just the kinds of "who will live and who will die" decisions every general faces in every battle. Something to make strong men weep, for sure, but...

 

It's Min's viewing that troubles me here. Cadsuane has something to teach Rand and all the Asha'man, something they won't like learning. That seems to point in a different direction.

[Siswaiaman]

It's Min's viewing that troubles me here. Cadsuane has something to teach Rand and all the Asha'man' date=' something they won't like learning. That seems to point in a different direction.[/quote']

 

Ive thought about this too. Could it be respect, or decency?

[hapazard]

Yeah!

 

An Aes Sedai is sure the best person to teach decency....... :roll:

[Siswaiaman]

heh heh oops my mistake.

On the other had, they wouldnt enjoy learning that.

[Anajon]

I think there are a few things that will work in that direction of him becoming strong rather then hard - one Moraine coming back - two him finding out that he is to be a dad - maybe meeting his own dad again, find out what kind of important alliances Mat and Perrin have formed, as right now he is pretty much acting as if he is the only one doing something.

 

How Cadusane fits into all of that, dono maybe holding his hand and give him a hanky :-)

[Guest cwestervelt]

Cadsuane and Sorilea were going to teach Rand how to weep I think it was. That part is because Cadsuane is afraid of a what the result of a victory for Rand would be like in his current state.

 

There has to be something else though. She first came to Cairhien for a reason, and that was before she knew what he was like emotionally. It is because of his emotional state that she is trying to make him curious enough to come to her as she is afraid anything else will scare him away.

[Moric]

Cwestervelt> Yes, obviously.

And I think that she came to seek the Car'a'carn out to guide him for the better of all the World -as she sees it- and when she arrived she realized this would be done by making him able to weep (and to laugh let's not forget that) again.

 

Moric of the Singing Wind sept of the Miagoma Aiel

[fader6818]

Both possible. But those are just the kinds of "who will live and who will die" decisions every general faces in every battle. Something to make strong men weep, for sure, but...

 

My point was not in relation to who died. it was in relation to, when two seemingly equal alternatives are availible, it is the EMOTION that tips the balance.

 

But Bob, the vision Min had IS an interesting thing. I myself have always assumed that what Cads teaches will be the trigger for the weeping and the laughter.

[Manetherenite]

I personally think it has something to do with Moiraine. Really, when you look at things, Cadsuane has taken Moiraine's place, if in a different fashion. I think that Cadsuane -does- have something to teach him, but she's going to go about it the wrong way, and it will be Moiraine who solves things. After all, I think she was the last person he cried for, ever.

 

Remember, Min said that Cadsuane has something to teach--not that she will teach it properly. Or so I think. I certainly hope it's -not- 'manners'. While Rand is arrogant, Cadsuane is just as annoyingly bad. I'd be a bit disappointed if she 'taught him what for', they both need spankings, to my mind.

[Guest pheobe sedai]

on one condition and one condition only:

 

just so long as he lives to see the twins.

babies do that to men. hurt the ones he loves, make him angry, and he will try even harder not to feel

the pain of their loss. he will of course cary out cold hearted justice in his fury and need for revenge.but that will just make him harder...

 

but the first smile of his child, the first step, the first time the babies reach out to tightly grasp daddy's fingers and stuff them in thier, tiny toothless, little mouthes his heart will turn to butter

[Siswaiaman]

speaking of which...

 

what will elayne name them?

[LostRkive]

Who will unlock Rands emotion?

 

It's Moraine, after her rescuing.

Why? His list of female deaths, when RJ would mention it, would start off "with the one that burned the most" Moraine.

 

He's been hardening himself through the use of his list of "obligations" to the women he has killed, while moraine is the principle starting point. Also she had a grave amount of influence in death over his decisions, Perhaps this is because of when she made her "sacrifice" on his behalf while he was unable to do what needed to be done.

 

Cadsuane's influence, probably will do with the timing of Moraine's reinclusion in the world events, perhaps she will also make a sacrifice on Rand's behalf, to later be explained by Moraine. Perhaps Moraine will disclose a piece of advice that Rand would not understand prior to a particular set of events.

 

Premise, Moraine's reinclusion would force a fundamental re-writing of Rand's list, psychologically it would destroy the base principle under which he implemented the list in the first place. Its kinda like a person making a huge list of all the minor so-called "slights" a person has done to them because they think that he/she did something horrible to them, only to find out that it was someone else to begin with. The list would then collapse because it had no fundamental basis. Thus Moraine's reappearance alone would only disable his psychological hardening mechanism, it will probably be up to Cadsuane (physically/verbally or by action/death) to teach/show him what is necessary to initiate the returning of his humanity. (although his kids may play a role as well, it seems from the storyline that Cadsuane will have some sort of influential effect, directly or indirectly, perhaps even regarding the children)

[UrsulaLV]

Moiraine's return will cut the foundation of The List out from under him. It is one of the things he does to punish himself, for doing what he has to do, instead of weeping for the necessity of their dieing. Moiraine will probably, at least figuratively, smack him up-side the head for having The List in the first place.

 

She might express actual fondness for him, too. He has always thought she just used him to save the world.

 

I think she will reclaim him from Cads, as well. It is traditional not to interfere in another Sister's business, and Rand is definitely Moiraine's business.

[ShadowEternal]

this is Caduane we're talking about. Do you honestly think that she'll just give up and go off because moraine came back from the dead (figuratively speaking)??.

 

I think that a meeting between Tam and Rand will take place when perrin returns with the prophet. undoubtedly, his father will have some choice words about his actions. that combined with moraines return might just do the trick. There has been some theorising that Therin is actually the personification of Rand's upcoming insanity along with his denial of emotions. Hopefully, Rand will be rid of LTT along with his return to a normal emotional state of mind.

[dalic]

I don't think Cad will intentionally endanger anyone Rand loves. But danger constantly surrounds all of them. So one or more or even all may come to be in mortal danger. Now Cad can guide Rand to an emotional outpouring.

 

And yet my theory and any others I've seen don't explain how this teaches both Rand and the Asha'man.

 

Maybe she makes a very public sacrifice of her life to save Rand and the Asha'man from disaster. It doesn't seem like that would make a dent in any Asha'man, but that is one thing she can do to directly impact both Rand and the Asha'man.

[bcxanth]

I think Cads and Sorilea teaching Rand "laughter and tears," and Min's viewing regarding Cads teaching Rand and the AM something they need to learn but won't like, are two different things. The viewing is something that Cads herself has to do because of the nature of Min's talent. She wouldn't see it about Cads if it was someone else that has to do it. As for what she'll do, I think the biggest thing Rand and all the AM need to learn is humility. They are not the biggest and baddest thing out there. They are not indestructible warriors that can do anything. They've become wat too arrogant. They need to get back in touch with their humanity.

 

Now, in regards to the whole teaching of laughter and tears thing, that's a tough one. Because there's no real vision that has to be connected to it, then that doesn't really mean Cads has to be the one to do it. Just that she and Sorilea are working for it. So I think the theories discussed before, about Moir coming back and that throwing his whole list thing out the window, is a good theory. It works for me at least. :)

[LostRkive]

hmm, I forgot that min did mention that cadsuane's lesson would be applicable (and necessary) to all of the AM.... but actually Rand's psychological health might still be the that "lesson". The following is a purely speculative theory, based on a couple assumptions on the following unknowns.

 

1) The taint is (was) a cumulative but not necessarily permanently affecting affliction, my meaning is that it functions like an oil, that although it can coat you, it can be removed with time (and effort) so long as it is not reapplied. Of course once you're drowning in oil, you're drowning (doesn't matter if you can wash then), madness is the psychological disruption and unlikely actually manifested by the taint in itself, but rather the disassociasion from reality within the mind itself. The taint would only alter their minds ability to logically orient their memories/selves, and hence why they would go mad over a period of time, rather than by the amount of the taint they recieve. (although I would assume, that if they are excessively tainted at a particular point, then their perceptions would be all but impossible to maintain, especially to a person who is unaware that the taint's effects requires a battle for sanity.)

 

2) That the cleansing or post-removal of the effect is psychologically grounded. Perhaps by means of the person afflictated to be able to "let things go" in regards to things they can not control. Not necessarily in regards to physically channeling saidin but rather in outside aspects of their existance.

 

Premises regarding this theory developement; Rand's current disability while channeling (the dizzyness/nasea), I find it a little hard to believe that this will necessarily continue/worsen throughout the remainder of Rand's life (whether or not he dies at Tarmon Gaidon). If it is so, then if getting Rand to let things go also removes latent taint effects then it would be something very important to anyone that channels saidin. Just a thought, btw in regards to assumption 1) it is partially supported within the writing. Although all the men that sealed the bore went mad (almost?) immediately, it is possible that they were deluded to a point they could not have a sane reference to guide by. Also they didn't realize it was their sanity that was at stake. also if the taint was strictly cumulative (meaning the more you have the greater the chance for madness) then why was Rand not cookoo as a clock after he cleansed Saidin, although yes the sa'angreal is buffered, does not mean that he did not funnel a huge amount of saidin through himself. There also might be a possibility that in order for the latent effects to be removed, it would be necessary to let go of certain psychological percepts while/before channeling cleansed saidin...... Dunno, like I said all speculation.

[Inara]

ive always been under the impression that the damage done to a man by the taint is permanent. it is like an amputated hand, whatever was there before is too destoyed to fix, or gone completly.

rand and the ASM already affected will no longer get worse, but neither will they get better.

[Jedimuppet]

ive always been under the impression that the damage done to a man by the taint is permanent. it is like an amputated hand' date=' whatever was there before is too destoyed to fix, or gone completly.

rand and the ASM already affected will no longer get worse, but neither will they get better.[/quote']

 

It is permanent. I don't think Rand has been seriously affected by the taint, though. It's pretty understandable that he has a hard time, considering all the bonds on him, plus sharing a soul with LTT. That would drive anyone a little batty, even without a tainted source.

J

[sarah2482]

From reading all the books, and currently starting again with tEotW, I dont think its as serious as that. Even in the later books, there are mentions of 'a rueful smile' here and so on and so forth. I think Min will keep his feet on the ground, Aviendha will keep him excited and Elayne and her children will bring him the love he needs. I think Tam will bring him back to normal, although he will never be the teenager he was in the early books - are you the same as you were 10 years ago?