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Durinax

Early hint to 13x13?

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"Through a crack in the wall sees a dozen men. Their leader is Adden. From the discussion it is clear that the three of them are to be sold. Another man, Coke, enters and says the buyer is still not there. A fat man says they will not wake for hours because of the drug he gave them. She wakes Nynaeve. Nynaeve knows the drug they used, sleepwell. It actually just cures headaches and makes one sleepy. She examines Elayne who is badly hurt and Heals her. When they look through the crack again they see that three Fades have arrived."

 

this is from a summary due to my book having fallen to bits.

 

But I think this is an early example of fades using bandits and such to buy female channellers and turn them

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Not necessarily. They had Cabriana in their posession but decided to torture and kill her instead of turning her. It is just as likely that they were bringing people in to question about Rand and friends.

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Not necessarily. They had Cabriana in their posession but decided to torture and kill her instead of turning her. It is just as likely that they were bringing people in to question about Rand and friends.

 

That is something else entirely. Cabriana had a different use, it was to hide Balthamael in Salidar. She could hardly have come back turned, it would have caused too much suspicion, the only way to hide it was to kill her. Which didn't work that well either.

 

Not sure if I agree. It is possible, but there are also many other possibilities as well. Too vague until we get more info. We have only ever seen Asha'man and one Aes Sedai (who is in the Black Tower) turned. If it has happened, then we haven't seen any of them. So too hard to say.

 

With the same logic as Cabriana, I don't think they would go to the effort of doing it. Aes Sedai are useful in other ways. RJ said that 13-13 was something not easily set up ( did he mean plot wise, or practically?) if practically, then I would have to say the effort of turning stray Aes Sedai would not be worth it, and they would opt to use them a different way, like they did with Cabriana and Elaida.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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The 13x is difficult to set up. Do we know why? It's 13 channelers directing a weave at the target through 13 fades. With the heart system in place in the BA I can see how getting 13 Black Aes Sedai together in one place and time would be problematic. The Myrdraal themselves are a freak of Trolloc breeding, but for all intents and purposes the numbers of Trollocs in the series are unlimited, so even with a 1:100 Fade livebirth to Trolloc spawned there is effectivly no shortage of Myrdraal to use. Myrdraal are very effective as soldiers, though so simply wasting them is not desired. Do we know if the 13x trick uses up the Myrdraal durring the process? If the Shadow would be losing 13 Myrdraal per ritual then it may not be sustainable for many uses and only for a specific reason. Of course if you can replace 13 spent Fades pretty quickly then it's no big deal.

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I think it is what is written. This would be from The Dragon Reborn and the Shadow's stratagems have changed much over the course of the series. From wanting to kill the three ta'veren outright to keeping Rand alive until the right time and place for example. Not to mention the Forsaken countering each other and furthering their own ends as well. There were 11 of 13 alive at the time IIRC and Ishamael wasn't explicitly Nae'blis then either. Any Black Ajah plot at that time would descend directly from Ishamael.

Edited by SkyFire

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The fades here seem a bit out of character, but I feel that is mostly because we only ever see them in the middle of a battle. We have always been told they are smart, but they seem as bloodthirsty as the rest of the trollocs when they are riding their horse on the battlefield. There are only like 3-4 times in the whole series when they actually -talk- to anyone, and all of them people tend to think are Shadar Haran precursors.

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I've wondered whether this buying of Aes Sedai is indicative of that myself--its very clear the myrdraal was after Nynaeve and co. for other, more specific purposes (Cabriana also was specifically aquired)--but Coke and the rest make clear there is a good and ongoing trade in Aes Sedai, and the only purpose I could see for that is the 13x13

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There's also the good general purpose of eliminating the most potentialy effective weapons in the enemies arsenal (ie. channellers) for the least possible risk and cost

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There's also the good general purpose of eliminating the most potentialy effective weapons in the enemies arsenal (ie. channellers) for the least possible risk and cost

 

True enough, though it would be easier then to just place a bounty and require proof.

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Is it an early-bookism? it makes the world seem alot more dangerous (on a personal level) than it does later on. The whole "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" thing is fine and all, but it really takes away the danger. If channelers are being targetted by the shadow until then, it makes sense for Warders to be all but compulsary for any AS to wander around outside Tar Valon. From the conversations by the bandits, it seems less like darkfriends are more a way to get by.

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That is something else entirely. Cabriana had a different use, it was to hide Balthamael in Salidar. She could hardly have come back turned, it would have caused too much suspicion, the only way to hide it was to kill her. Which didn't work that well either.

 

I see what you're trying to say. A turned sister, however, couldn't just be placed back into the world. We've seen how easy it is to notice the differences in channelers who are turned (presumably) at the Black Tower, so I think it is safe to assume they would be held somewhere and trained until the right time - Possibly part of the [bLANK] in the Blight - though I am getting off track.

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That is something else entirely. Cabriana had a different use, it was to hide Balthamael in Salidar. She could hardly have come back turned, it would have caused too much suspicion, the only way to hide it was to kill her. Which didn't work that well either.

 

I see what you're trying to say. A turned sister, however, couldn't just be placed back into the world. We've seen how easy it is to notice the differences in channelers who are turned (presumably) at the Black Tower, so I think it is safe to assume they would be held somewhere and trained until the right time - Possibly part of the [bLANK] in the Blight - though I am getting off track.

well I am wondering if the eyes are just an immediate side effect that shows the change in the person, which would eventually fade away to become less obvious and more normal

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