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big ol' balescream


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hey guys and girls, i had a quick search and couldn't find a topic on this specific thing, however im also watching the England vs West Indies cricket (first inning, WI are 64-4 if anybody cares :P) so i may have missed it. Also sorry if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move or delete it if you like.

 

So i was just having a quick look over the prophecies of the dragon and i found this bit:

"The Shadow shall rise across the world, and darken every land, even to the smallest corner, and there shall be neither Light nor safety. And he who shall be born of the Dawn, born of the Maiden, according to Prophecy, he shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, and the world shall scream in the pain of salvation. All Glory be to the Creator, and to the Light, and to he who shall be born again. May the Light save us from him."

 

So my question is, could this (the bit in bold) be a balescream? Opinions please?

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

 

Why would someone waste Balefire on a non channeler? Plus, it would take more than her to make the ripple right? I mean we've never seen a ripple exept when Rand did the Palace Balefire.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

 

Why would someone waste Balefire on a non channeler? Plus, it would take more than her to make the ripple right? I mean we've never seen a ripple exept when Rand did the Palace Balefire.

 

There's a theory that part of the DO's instructions to Demandred at the start of The Lord of Chaos was to use balefire to help cause a lot of chaos and to pick away at the Pattern. One of the things that the DO asked Demandred was whether he'd be willing to use balefire. I'm not 100% aboard that boat, but it makes sense on a certain level. It would add additional confusion on top of whatever just the assassination would cause (especially if that person was highly influential and touched upon a lot of other threads which would be left hanging after their thread was burnt backwards in time), and put strain on the Pattern and is perhaps part of what allows wonky things (rearranging hallways, patches of reality moving around) to happen, or at least gives the DO an increased ability to cause such things.

Edited by Agitel
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There's a theory that part of the DO's instructions to Demandred at the start of The Lord of Chaos was to use balefire to help cause a lot of chaos and to pick away at the Pattern. One of the things that the DO asked Demandred was whether he'd be willing to use balefire. I'm not 100% aboard that boat, but it makes sense on a certain level. It would add additional confusion on top of whatever just the assassination would cause (especially if that person was highly influential and touched upon a lot of other threads which would be left hanging after their thread was burnt backwards in time), and put strain on the Pattern and is perhaps part of what allows wonky things (rearranging hallways, patches of reality moving around) to happen, or at least gives the DO an increased ability to cause such things.

 

On that level it makes sense. However are we ever told that directions someone has just given are erased? We know their direct actions, and things they've done are, but what is a queen actually doing with her hands, Crazy Elayne not included. So unless people forget things they just told them, it wouldn't affect much.

 

But yea random balefiring could make a sick sort of sense.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

 

She can't have been killed by Balefire. Semi says something about not knowing the human body contained so much blood after killing her.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

 

She can't have been killed by Balefire. Semi says something about not knowing the human body contained so much blood after killing her.

 

Semi does talk about the amount of blood in a body and Lews says she rarely lies, but that was pre zen-Rand so who knows. I was thinking it would have been a balefiring geographically closer to Faile/Perrin when it goes down. The Wise Ones weren't too close Batrim's Narrow when it was purified, but definitely closer than from Malden to the Seanchan continent.

 

My guess would be Demandred carrying out the Great Lord's request to unleash the BF, but uncertain as to target (or maybe three targets). The text has not given us reason to suspect Dem has an angreal or sa' so it would have had to go down closer than the distance from BN to Bandar Eban. A rough estimate using the Big Map shows that would include the Two Rivers and other parts of Andor (but not Caemlyn), Murandy, Altara, Ghealdan, Amadicia, most of Tarabon and a slice of northwest Illian.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

 

I've seen people on the boards claim it was such. I haven't seen a timeline that places this when Rand did his light show, so it may be. I always assumed it was a bubble of evil.

 

I've been toying with the idea that the Empress of Seanchan was killed by balefire. I don't know how that matches up timeline-wise. That, along with some other things, may have had tremendous "ripple" effects.

 

Why would someone waste Balefire on a non channeler? Plus, it would take more than her to make the ripple right? I mean we've never seen a ripple exept when Rand did the Palace Balefire.

 

There's a theory that part of the DO's instructions to Demandred at the start of The Lord of Chaos was to use balefire to help cause a lot of chaos and to pick away at the Pattern. One of the things that the DO asked Demandred was whether he'd be willing to use balefire. I'm not 100% aboard that boat, but it makes sense on a certain level. It would add additional confusion on top of whatever just the assassination would cause (especially if that person was highly influential and touched upon a lot of other threads which would be left hanging after their thread was burnt backwards in time), and put strain on the Pattern and is perhaps part of what allows wonky things (rearranging hallways, patches of reality moving around) to happen, or at least gives the DO an increased ability to cause such things.

 

Agreed with this assesment, particulary the weakening of the Pattern yielding greater influence by the DO, Who knows, someone may have been intentionally seeking to undo a specific action at that moment and just burned whatever damn thread needed burning.

 

edit for damn typo

Edited by FanoLan
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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

I asked Brandon that and got RAFO'd with a grin (and in, he said I should say it was a RAFO with a grin)

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

I asked Brandon that and got RAFO'd with a grin (and in, he said I should say it was a RAFO with a grin)

 

Now that's a reply to whet the appetite even more.

 

Maybe a little sumpin' sumpin' in Murandy.....Roedran who? Or potential missing/replaced members of the Band from the crew that stayed behind? This one will distract me for a while. Ahhhh, gonna drive myself crazy with the possibilites.

 

Have to figure if it was balescream effects, it was not near any of the crew that felt it In Bandar Eban or else they would have commented on the prior experience. I would have to go back to the text to see where Sorilea, Cads, et al were chilling at the time of the Perrin/Faile incident. Guess we shouldn't assume everyone that felt it reflected so in the text so maybe a Black Tower incident. Or maybe Seanchan related.

 

Well, with the Demandred instructions and proximity of the experience to Murandy, that'll be my guess ..... for now.

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Did Faile experience three "balescreams" after she left Sevanna's tent and was being debriefed by the WO? Perrin and those in his tent when Tylee came to report on the other two approaching clans also experienced them. The descriptions of the effect seem similar if not exact. Doesn't seem like the radius is too large, so it could be interesting to try to determine the potential targets of the threepeat balefire.

 

I asked Brandon that and got RAFO'd with a grin (and in, he said I should say it was a RAFO with a grin)

 

Now that's a reply to whet the appetite even more.

 

Maybe a little sumpin' sumpin' in Murandy.....Roedran who? Or potential missing/replaced members of the Band from the crew that stayed behind? This one will distract me for a while. Ahhhh, gonna drive myself crazy with the possibilites.

 

Have to figure if it was balescream effects, it was not near any of the crew that felt it In Bandar Eban or else they would have commented on the prior experience. I would have to go back to the text to see where Sorilea, Cads, et al were chilling at the time of the Perrin/Faile incident. Guess we shouldn't assume everyone that felt it reflected so in the text so maybe a Black Tower incident. Or maybe Seanchan related.

 

Well, with the Demandred instructions and proximity of the experience to Murandy, that'll be my guess ..... for now.

 

One of the things I suggested was that the location is curious... as in, we just saw a Super Pack of Darkhounds in the book previous, Darkhounds whose prey was evading them (which means said prey was something pretty serious). So yes, a super pack of the type of Shadowspawn that it sometimes takes balefire to kill was in the area, and then we get what appears to be a balescream (and the sheer number of Darkhounds may in itself supply the need for such a powerful use of balefire)....

 

In addition, Brandon has shown in his answers about the Super Pack that he regards them as dealt with, from a plot perspective--he thought it had already been shown who they were hunting, and when he realised it hadn't he still stated that he only MAY include that information in aMoL and that if we didn't we should ask him again, which clearly seems to show that they've either done whatever it was they were supposed to do, or else there would be no doubt (i.e. if there were a scene planned based on them, there would be no 'may' about it, and that the 'may' suggests, at best, someone referencing them--or else failed and died.

 

Indeed, if he knew the balescream was the Darkhounds dying, it would explain how he got confused as to us already knowing what happened to him--as in maybe he came across in the notes something saying 'Darkhounds killed by balefire in KoD'.

 

Of course this would kill the commonly held belief that the Darkhounds were hunting Fain... *shrug*

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It's a pretty huge stretch, though, considering that we would know if they had been killed by one of the Lightsiders with balefire, and they wouldn't need Darkhounds to find one of the Forsaken, or even a Darkfriend channeler. So who would it be? Without a plausible quarry, there's really no theory there. Also, for the record:

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=554#9

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It's a pretty huge stretch, though, considering that we would know if they had been killed by one of the Lightsiders with balefire, and they wouldn't need Darkhounds to find one of the Forsaken, or even a Darkfriend channeler. So who would it be? Without a plausible quarry, there's really no theory there. Also, for the record:

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=554#9

 

Then it was evidently Verin.

 

Because if she balefired herself, then she wouldn't have balefired herself.

 

Maybe she used so little that... you know what, stuff it. Can't be bothered. :P

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It's a pretty huge stretch, though, considering that we would know if they had been killed by one of the Lightsiders with balefire, and they wouldn't need Darkhounds to find one of the Forsaken, or even a Darkfriend channeler. So who would it be? Without a plausible quarry, there's really no theory there. Also, for the record:

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=554#9

 

Then it was evidently Verin.

 

I was going to argue against that, then I decided you were joking. :tongue:

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