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thom_merrilin

Nynaeve, the most arrogant character in WoT?

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She almost unfailingly treats people based on their own actions.

 

It makes her come off has hypocritical when she keeps berating Rand about not having manners all the while having none herself. If her special skill is being completely infuriating, then yes she's fantastic at it. Was it worth it? She very nearly broke him. Were her methods actually good or was she just lucky that Rand was able to pull himself back? Who can say? The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.

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Three things

 

She almost unfailingly treats people based on their own actions.

She very nearly broke him.

 

She didn't. He nearly broke himself.

 

Were her methods actually good or was she just lucky that Rand was able to pull himself back?

Well, she managed to get Rand thinking about the monster he was becoming. How he reacted to that information was pure luck, on the other hand.

 

It makes her come off has hypocritical when she keeps berating Rand about not having manners all the while having none herself.

 

At that point in time Rand was literally begging for her to berate him about his lack of manners towards others. And she does show others respect, but when you're dealing with an insane guy who acts like a spoiled child even though he got the terms he wished for (ie. in the stone of Tear in KoD) its pretty hard to respect that guy, though you CAN understand what he's going through.

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Remarkable Suttree we are agreeing on something I did not like her much when it started but she kind of grew on me as the story went along turning point for me was the scene where she heals that aile girl who later dies. That was the first time we saw the other side of Nynaeve the healer from there on she kept getting better.

 

Fear not mate, my above post refers to Cadsuane not Nynaeve....

No actually I agreed with you on cad and then went on to express my opinion of Nynaeve. As for Cad she hasn't had a reason to be wrong in hundreds of years so I can ignore some of her egocentricity and eccentricity.

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Elaida isn't arrogant to the level of Eggy or Nyn even. She truely believes what she is doing is right and the only way. She believes she is just doing justice deposing Suian, and she is fighting for control of the Tower against the Hall. The palace, believe it or not, is an extremely small thing on this level. At the very least, its giving people jobs :)

 

That's kinda the definition of arrogance. She refuses to listen to anybody until it's in her face and she's had it rubbed in it like Alviarin did with the kidnapping of Rand and the Black Tower disaster.

 

Everyone around her is wrong, but she is always right. She proclaims "I AM Tower law!" when clearly if that was the case Suian would never have been deposed.

 

Aes Sedai means "servant of all" but she seems to think it means ruler of all. In her POV she continually goes on about making it how it was before the Trolloc Wars when only the Tower approved a new king or queen. Every Amyrlin for two thousand years has made do with apartments not much bigger then other Aes Sedai and now big bad awesome Elaida comes along and SHE must have a palace. One with a spire taller then the White Tower.

 

How is that anything but supremely arrogant? How does anything Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Cadsuane or any other character do come even close to that?

 

She continually misinterprets her own Foretellings, because she arrogantly thinks because she gets them, she must know what they mean, when clearly she is utterly clueless. She takes her Foretelling about the ruling house of Andor to mean Trakand, when at the time of her foretelling, they weren't actually the ruling house (the Foretelling, of course, refers to Tigraine, who would be Rand's mom). She takes her Foretelling about Rand feeling the Amyrlin's anger and Sisters walking the Black Tower grounds to mean she will be victorious, when it means nothing of the kind.

 

I could go on.. I don't know how any other character could possibly come close to Elaida's level of arrogance. How much of that is her and how much is because of Fain's influence is another story, but the point still stands.

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I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

Edited by Knivy

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I dont know if I would call Mat arrogant. His confident and self assured, but he doesnt really show the standard traits of arrogance. his also respectful to people when he needs to be i.e kissing Egwenes ring in Salidar, and the wya he handles his men regarding promotions and whatnot.

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I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

 

Nynaeve's arrogance was all smoke and mirrors though. In truth she was incredibly insecure, little more than a kid herself and being asked to be the adult to the other Two Rivers kids in a situation utterly outside the scope of her experience. This is why I've actually come to love early Nynaeve--she's trying so damn hard to do what's right.

 

Cadsuane's arrogance, on the other hand, is a confidence based in long experience and a success rate to go with it.

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i dont think any of the Asha'man could of killed cads so easily. Rand himself was wary of her, she is a AS legend, famous for catching MC's.

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i dont think any of the Asha'man could of killed cads so easily. Rand himself was wary of her, she is a AS legend, famous for catching MC's.

They arent afraid to use balefire. If she can get around that somehow (possibly her Ter'angreal) then her experience would give her the upper hand.

I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

 

Nynaeve's arrogance was all smoke and mirrors though. In truth she was incredibly insecure, little more than a kid herself and being asked to be the adult to the other Two Rivers kids in a situation utterly outside the scope of her experience. This is why I've actually come to love early Nynaeve--she's trying so damn hard to do what's right.

 

Cadsuane's arrogance, on the other hand, is a confidence based in long experience and a success rate to go with it.

 

The why doesn't matter, arrogance is still arrogance. What you said is correct, though.

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i dont think any of the Asha'man could of killed cads so easily. Rand himself was wary of her, she is a AS legend, famous for catching MC's.

They arent afraid to use balefire. If she can get around that somehow (possibly her Ter'angreal) then her experience would give her the upper hand.

I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

 

Nynaeve's arrogance was all smoke and mirrors though. In truth she was incredibly insecure, little more than a kid herself and being asked to be the adult to the other Two Rivers kids in a situation utterly outside the scope of her experience. This is why I've actually come to love early Nynaeve--she's trying so damn hard to do what's right.

 

Cadsuane's arrogance, on the other hand, is a confidence based in long experience and a success rate to go with it.

 

The why doesn't matter, arrogance is still arrogance. What you said is correct, though.

 

On Cadsuane vs. Ashaman, my hunch is that Logain or Taim won't have a difficult time handling her. They're almost as strong as Rand. Cadsuane is estimated to be at lvl 14 in Linda's Saidar power ranking. Egwene and Elayne are stronger than her; and Rand was able to shield both of them easily in TSR.

 

Thinking about Nynaeve's "arrogance" right now has me thinking that it was her temper and attitude that bothered me during the first few books. She doesn't come across as arrogant in the Elaida, Suroth, Foresaken, Taim, or even Dark Rand arrogance.

 

And the why of it is very important. Luckers hit the mark by explaining why she was acting the way she was early on. Whether it was her block broken or marriage to Lan, one or both settled her down. She started to improve significantly after "Mashiara" (sp).

Edited by Theodril

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On Cadsuane vs. Ashaman, my hunch is that Logain or Taim won't have a difficult time handling her. They're almost as strong as Rand. Cadsuane is estimated to be at lvl 14 in Linda's Saidar power ranking. Egwene and Elayne are stronger than her; and Rand was able to shield both of them easily in TSR.

 

With her angreal she'd be around their strength, and in truth probably stronger for all that her angreal isn't as strong as Nynaeve's. That being said it isn't just about pure strength--with her paralis-net, her experience and her skill I doubt either Taim or Logain would be her match (remember that she was the one who captured Logain, so we know for a fact she can take him, and if he's learned things since then, well so has she).

 

Even Rand, frankly, would struggle in a fight with Cadsuane. Oh, I think he'd win, but she'd make him work for it. Of that I've no doubt.

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i dont think any of the Asha'man could of killed cads so easily. Rand himself was wary of her, she is a AS legend, famous for catching MC's.

They arent afraid to use balefire. If she can get around that somehow (possibly her Ter'angreal) then her experience would give her the upper hand.

 

that is if they know the weave for balefire, we know Narishma? didnt until Rand showed him in tGS. I dont think Taim would wont a weave that dangerous common knowlage even among his followers.

I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

 

Nynaeve's arrogance was all smoke and mirrors though. In truth she was incredibly insecure, little more than a kid herself and being asked to be the adult to the other Two Rivers kids in a situation utterly outside the scope of her experience. This is why I've actually come to love early Nynaeve--she's trying so damn hard to do what's right.

 

Cadsuane's arrogance, on the other hand, is a confidence based in long experience and a success rate to go with it.

 

The why doesn't matter, arrogance is still arrogance. What you said is correct, though.

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i dont think any of the Asha'man could of killed cads so easily. Rand himself was wary of her, she is a AS legend, famous for catching MC's.

They arent afraid to use balefire. If she can get around that somehow (possibly her Ter'angreal) then her experience would give her the upper hand.

 

that is if they know the weave for balefire, we know Narishma? didnt until Rand showed him in tGS. I dont think Taim would wont a weave that dangerous common knowlage even among his followers.

I found that out a couple hours after posting, actually. I had forgotten that scene, which does remove much of the "wrongness" of her attitude towards Rand, but her treatment of the others still was a little more than a little much. I think it would be pretty hard to defend that it was necessary to treat the other leaders in the room that way.

 

Nevertheless, whether it is intentional and justified or not, arrogance is arrogance.

 

It seems like everyone goes through a cycle of arrogance, such as with it starts low, peaks in books 2-3, drops down for a bit, then rises again, Nyn starts high, and steadily drops, while the period of Mat's arrogance is longer than twice his life :)

 

edit: This is directed toward Lucker's initial response to me.

 

Nynaeve's arrogance was all smoke and mirrors though. In truth she was incredibly insecure, little more than a kid herself and being asked to be the adult to the other Two Rivers kids in a situation utterly outside the scope of her experience. This is why I've actually come to love early Nynaeve--she's trying so damn hard to do what's right.

 

Cadsuane's arrogance, on the other hand, is a confidence based in long experience and a success rate to go with it.

 

The why doesn't matter, arrogance is still arrogance. What you said is correct, though.

 

Actually I think it does matter. There are distinctions between the posturing Nynaeve does, the arrogance of those like Elaida, and the confidence of those like Cadsuane. A spectrum, if you will.

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I flabbergasted that anyone who has read Nynaeve's viewpoints in The Gathering Storm would label her 'the most arrogant character'. For crying out loud, she divides her time between Cadsuane and Rand (who in my opinion deserves the title Most Arrogant in TGS). At this stage of the story she is the last check on Rand's out of control behavior, even after Min, and she knows this. And once she realizes finding a solution means submitting to Cadsuane, she proceeds immediately despite dreading it.

 

On the whole, I find Nynaeve's character development over the course of the series to be the most convincing and thorough, and surely among the most endearing.

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Yea I have to say, she's the worst. Not only that,but she manages to pull it off against people who could crush her like a bug. Any of the Ashamen with Rand could shield and destroy her.

 

That would be a neat trick given her Paralis-net...

 

It's baffling to me sometimes how badly people misread her character at times. Say what you will but she always has a specific goal in mind to help the light and her track record speaks for itself.

 

Her net doesn't stop channelling, and her Angreal is a minor one (If I recall correctly). Still stands that Rand's personal troupe of Ashaman are more powerful than her and therefore would be able to shield and crush her. Although, I wonder if her one charm that interfers with weaves can stop all weaves, i.e. I wonder if it means she's immune to shields and everything, because if so that seems rather powerful.

 

I haven't misread her character, I understand what she's about, but it all comes down to she's an uncouth tactless bully who is far too used to being obeyed and the single most powerful force walking around. Her ego is so huge a linked circle of 13 couldn't lift it!

 

Most think it does. That is the function of the two intertwined crescent moons which grow cool just like Mat's foxhead. The one charm that disrupts weaves is separate. It is one of the reasons why Cads was never nervous around any of the Ashaman from day one.

 

As for her character funny how in your protest that you haven't misread it, you display how badly you have. Sure she is used to being the top dog, but then again she often is. Getting the mission accomplished is what is important to her, end of story. She almost unfailingly treats people based on their actions. Not to mention her tactics are extremely varied. Far from just bullying when diplomacy works best a la Sorilea that is what she does. She was taught early on in the Black Hills by Norla the wilder that there is no one size solution. Maybe brush up on RJ's notes for the character linked above. Again her track record speaks for itself and no one would describe an uncouth bully as a "remarkably adaptable woman".

 

Actually no I've not misread her. I understand she's used to being the top dog, but that doesn't mean you have to treat those around you as crap. Her dealing with Soriela is different, it was the meeting of two pack leaders of different packs, of course she's going to be a little more careful. That being said, who else has she treated respectfully?

 

As too the Paralis Net, there's 0 evidence suggesting that it does stop male channeling, and if it did, it would be a HUGE thing. Think about how much excitment Mat's caused, because no one had ever heard of such a thing before. Of course now that I think about it, no male channelers have channeled directly at her in the series.

 

Getting the mission accomplished displays exactly what I was saying, selfish and uncouth. She decides that what she thinks is the most important, IS. Regardless of what else is going on, everything else be damned. Hell, I wish Dark Rand would have made her cease to exist when he was all Emo.

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As too the Paralis Net, there's 0 evidence suggesting that it does stop male channeling, and if it did, it would be a HUGE thing. Think about how much excitment Mat's caused, because no one had ever heard of such a thing before. Of course now that I think about it, no male channelers have channeled directly at her in the series.

 

Do you think Logain went meekly when she took him down? Yeah you're right, he probably didn't channel at her. Can't imagine why he would. :rolleyes:

Not sure what your point is about how much excitement Mat's caused. None of the AS understands what Cads has, she got it from a Wilder in the Black Hills. As Luckers said above with that and the angreal boosting her strength she most likely could take down both Taim and Logain(again) individually. Rand until recently would have had a very difficult time.

 

Concerning Cadsuane's personality, posters keep breaking her down, providing links, citing examples from the text etc. and you just keep repeating your opinion over and over with nothing to back it up. No reason to continue if you are going to approach it in that manner. I do hope you read RJ's notes and Luckers post he linked. Would be interested to see your thoughts on both.

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She almost unfailingly treats people based on their own actions.

 

It makes her come off has hypocritical when she keeps berating Rand about not having manners all the while having none herself. If her special skill is being completely infuriating, then yes she's fantastic at it. Was it worth it? She very nearly broke him. Were her methods actually good or was she just lucky that Rand was able to pull himself back? Who can say? The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.

So true. She's a big time hypocrite. So often rude to others yet she doesn't tolerate it at all when others are rude to her.

 

BTW, didn't Cadsuane have plenty of other Aes Sedai helping her when she captured Logain?

Edited by David Selig

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As too the Paralis Net, there's 0 evidence suggesting that it does stop male channeling, and if it did, it would be a HUGE thing. Think about how much excitment Mat's caused, because no one had ever heard of such a thing before. Of course now that I think about it, no male channelers have channeled directly at her in the series.
Do you think Logain went meekly when she took him down? Yeah you're right, he probably didn't channel at her. Can't imagine why he would. :rolleyes:Not sure what your point is about how much excitement Mat's caused. None of the AS understands what Cads has, she got it from a Wilder in the Black Hills. As Luckers said above with that and the angreal boosting her strength she most likely could take down both Taim and Logain(again) individually. Rand until recently would have had a very difficult time.Concerning Cadsuane's personality, posters keep breaking her down, providing links, citing examples from the text etc. and you just keep repeating your opinion over and over with nothing to back it up. No reason to continue if you are going to approach it in that manner. I do hope you read RJ's notes and Luckers post he linked. Would be interested to see your thoughts on both.
Logain wasn't at his full strength at that point. No where near even. At that point, she was probably stronger than him. Rand stated many times men gain strenth in spurts, so this long after, I'd like to see her take Logain on.Wait, what links did Luckers provide? Maybe I missed something. I saw the Soreila reference, but that's it. I'll go back and check again. Edited by Vardarmus

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As too the Paralis Net, there's 0 evidence suggesting that it does stop male channeling, and if it did, it would be a HUGE thing. Think about how much excitment Mat's caused, because no one had ever heard of such a thing before. Of course now that I think about it, no male channelers have channeled directly at her in the series.
Do you think Logain went meekly when she took him down? Yeah you're right, he probably didn't channel at her. Can't imagine why he would. :rolleyes:Not sure what your point is about how much excitement Mat's caused. None of the AS understands what Cads has, she got it from a Wilder in the Black Hills. As Luckers said above with that and the angreal boosting her strength she most likely could take down both Taim and Logain(again) individually. Rand until recently would have had a very difficult time.Concerning Cadsuane's personality, posters keep breaking her down, providing links, citing examples from the text etc. and you just keep repeating your opinion over and over with nothing to back it up. No reason to continue if you are going to approach it in that manner. I do hope you read RJ's notes and Luckers post he linked. Would be interested to see your thoughts on both.
Logain wasn't at his full strength at that point. No where near even. At that point, she was probably stronger than him. Rand stated many times men gain strenth in spurts, so this long after, I'd like to see her take Logain on.Wait, what links did Luckers provide? Maybe I missed something. I saw the Soreila reference, but that's it. I'll go back and check again.

 

She has taken down more than any ten Reds put together. Her strength when combined with the angreal should be high enough to make a considerable difference.

 

ACoS

Breathing the steam from her teacup, Cadsuane went on, suddenly chatting pleasantly. "It was Logain, practically on my doorstep, that lured me away from my roses. Phaw! A scuffle at a sheep fair could have lured me from those Light-cursed plants. What’s the point if you use the Power, but do it without, and you grow ten thousand thorns for every - Phaw! I actually considered taking the oath as a Hunter, if the Council of Nine would allow it. Well. It was a nice few months, chasing down Logain, but once he was taken, escorting him to Tar Valon appealed as much as the roses. I wandered a bit, to see what I could find, perhaps a new Warder, though it’s a bit late for that in any fairness to the man, I suppose. Then I heard of Taim, and I was off to Saldaea as fast I could ride. There’s nothing for a bit of excitement like a man who can channel." Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. "Were either of you involved in that... vileness... right after the Aiel War?"

 

She would not have the success rate that she does, nor be so glib about it unless her Paralis-Net did something to stop weaves as most on DM think.

 

Btw here is the link he provided...

 

http://www.dragonmou...es-of-cadsuane/

 

So true. She's a big time hypocrite. So often rude to others yet she doesn't tolerate it at all when others are rude to her.

 

When we see others being rude to her what is their objective David? Do you really think it is the same thing? Calculated pushing towards a goal to me is fairly different.

Edited by Suttree

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Ok then, I'll break down Lucker's assesment of Cad.

 

1. She slaps Rand and insists he not use balefire [aCoS; 36, Blades].

2. She forces Rand to be polite to her [tPoD; 27, The Bargain], [WH;32, A Portion of Wisdom].

3. She forces Rand to be polite to his followers [KoD; 18, News For the Dragon], [KoD; 21, Within the Stone].

4. She attempts to force him to see her side of things following Semirhage's assault. [tGS; 23, A Warp in the Air]

5. She forces Rand to face his father, and through that the darkness that has grown within him [tGS; 48, The One He Lost].

 

You forgot a few. Just thinking back quickly:

6) forcing the Ashaman to be bonded, thru blackmail if I recall correctly

7) Forcing Rand to come to her when he politely asked him to her. Regardless of who she thinks she is, he is a king. He sent a request for her presence, she was in his palace, she declined.

8) When she first met Rand, intentionally goading him to get angry so she could take his AS with her. In fact she never asked, she just took them. (After he flipped and yelled get out anyway, but she caused that)

That’s just a few.

 

Your question about is she a bully?

 

Ok, there are different types of Bullies and bullying. That’s pretty apparent. And bullying, like most any occupation or hobby, can be adapted. the most successful are generally those who adapt for the time. So I see your remark that since she uses different styles, that she’s not a bully, and respond with that’s exactly what makes her such a successful bully. There’s nothing subtle about spanking a grown woman. Nothing tactful about ignoring someone else and letting them speak then totally disregarding them.

 

Also, fair is not a word I would use to refer to her. Anytime she seems fair, it’s all been because whatever action she “allowed” to occur furthered her means. She’s done nothing, nothing in the series that didn’t help her out.

 

As to your Loyalty comments:

 

I can’t say much here. Since all those things you mentioned help her towards her end goals, of course she did them. I’ll dare say fain may not have attacked him at all if she didn’t stop Rand from channeling (If I’m remembering that correctly).

 

A Gentler Approach; Fact or Fiction?

 

I won’t remark on this. I don’t think Moriane’s way was the right way either, but then again Rand wouldn’t have been so distrustful if AS had treated him like an Adult from the jump and not like a child. yes he was young, but the world already rested on his shoulders. They were fools for not telling him what he needed/wanted to know. They bred that distrust in him. Dark Rand was a lot their fault.

 

I’m not saying Cad had to be a suckup, I’m just saying that she’s a rude uncouth lout who needs to be taught a lesson. My personal opinion is I’d rather her slay me that be treated that way by her. She treats people like honorless animals.

 

][/b]

Cadsuane is rude and abusive, but also fair, and applies those aspects with great integrity. She has, furthermore, been unfailingly loyal to Rand and to his mission since the moment she stepped on screen, and has done everything in her power to help him, yet at the same time she has held to her oath not to hurt him anymore that she had to. She never blindly hurt him, never stupidly pushed him. Each act was calculated, and careful and with on the his best interest at heart.

 

Again, please cite an example of her being fair without it furthering her means. Someone doing something just because it’s fair doesn’t do it only to better themselves. Integrity? Don’t sully the word by using it to describe her. She has none. Again, Loyalty, I’ll have to give you that one. She is pretty single-minded focused on helping Rand, in the way in which she sees fit. Just the wording of that quote “Any more than she had too” explains what’s wrong with her. Evil geniuses/dictators throughout history have used that phrase to rationalize atrocious acts, genocide, slavery, war, etc. Some of the worst acts of evil were not committed in blindness of stupidity, they were cold, rational calculated acts that were pure genius.

 

I think you have an interesting opinion, but I’d challenge you to deal with a power-mad individual like this for a day. Put yourself in a characters shoes. If you have any idea of your own self-worth, you wouldn’t put up with it for a minute.

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When we see others being rude to her what is their objective David? Do you really think it is the same thing? Calculated pushing towards a goal to me is fairly different.

Usually they've had enough of Cadsuane rudeness and her custom of treating almost everyone around her like silly kids, so they retaliate in kind (like Rand's reaction when she barged in his throne room without asking). I can't blame them for this. This woman is infuriating. Yeah, yeah, she has good intention, but so what? Since when is that an excuse to be a jerk?

 

Look how she treated Moiraine in NS. As if Moiraine is a 5 year old who can't do anything on her own and needs constant supervision. The condescension was so over the top I wanted Moiraine to slap Cadsuane a few times.

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She would not have the success rate that she does, nor be so glib about it unless her Paralis-Net did something to stop weaves as most on DM think.

 

Btw here is the link he provided...

 

http://www.dragonmou...es-of-cadsuane/

 

She has the success rate that she has because A) She's the most powerful AS in her time (When she was out and about doing those things) and B) She have the knowledge of the years backing her. Most men who can channel will barely have any strength when AS catch up with them. They should be easy pickings for any AS, not sure why it's trouble. (I've actually wondered this, my best guess is that the men are going insane and just weaving and weaving, I'm not sure, in fact that's a huge issue in my mind with the series.)

 

When we see others being rude to her what is their objective David? Do you really think it is the same thing? Calculated pushing towards a goal to me is fairly different.

 

Rudeness in the minds of some of us is never acceptable. I wouldn't be rude to my worst enemy. I wouldn't be rude to someone I may have to kill tomorrow. It not only dishonors them, it dishonors me.

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As Luckers said above with that and the angreal boosting her strength she most likely could take down both Taim and Logain(again) individually. Rand until recently would have had a very difficult time.

 

We have no proof that her Angreal is substansial. If it was, I would assume mention would have been made of it before now. I'd think at most, it would put her on par with Ny. (Similiar to Elayne and her Angreal she got from the stash). Logain/Taim/Rand would crush her with it. CRUSH. Hell, if I remember Flinn is pretty damn powerful himself, as is, Naeff (I think). Either of them should Crush her.

 

However we'll never know how powerful it is because it's never been mentioned specficially.

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As Luckers said above with that and the angreal boosting her strength she most likely could take down both Taim and Logain(again) individually. Rand until recently would have had a very difficult time.

 

We have no proof that her Angreal is substansial. If it was, I would assume mention would have been made of it before now. I'd think at most, it would put her on par with Ny. (Similiar to Elayne and her Angreal she got from the stash). Logain/Taim/Rand would crush her with it. CRUSH. Hell, if I remember Flinn is pretty damn powerful himself, as is, Naeff (I think). Either of them should Crush her.

 

However we'll never know how powerful it is because it's never been mentioned specficially.

 

Evidence suggests that it puts her at least on par with the Forsaken, strength-wise (see Winter's Heart).

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If we take Min's viewing out of the Cadsuane - Rand relationship, he would have put her on his "Ignore List" a long, long time ago. Cadsuane had Rand's best interests at heart. She had his back and saved his life on more than one occasion. But she went about achieving her objective (laughter and tears) in a very unconventional way; and Rand was a deteriorating "patient." Heck he was downright terrifying in TGS. He brought her to admit failure to Sorilea and the Wise Ones.

 

Looking at Cadsuane and others around Rand, I wonder why it was always "extremes" are shown in dealing with Rand. People around him are usually either "kissing his feet" or "frustrating him." Even in his dealings with his 3 lovers, he was fluctuating between extremes. Cadsuane is the same, she mixed her dedication to him and his cause with slapping his face and rudely and arrogantly trying to teach him manner.

 

She was trying to teach him how to laugh and cry; but we never see her as a person who loves life and enjoys that type of atmosphere. She was more of a detached, stone-faced doctor handling a patient.

Edited by Theodril

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