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Scott Bishop

Which character or characters will betray the light at TG?

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[*]King Roederan of Murandy (standing army, enough cash to afford the services of the Band of the Red Hand)

 

Demandred betrayed the light a long time ago.

 

we don't know if he is roedran for sure though

 

Oh really? ;) The post was a joke...

Edited by Suttree

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I want Dyelin to betray them. It would be awesome if she were a dreadlord among dreadlord, since Alviarin is too incompetent to lead the female dreadlords during LB.

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I want Dyelin to betray them. It would be awesome if she were a dreadlord among dreadlord, since Alviarin is too incompetent to lead the female dreadlords during LB.

 

Actually Alviarin is one of the most capable Shadow agents in the whole series. She led the BA quite capably for a significant number of years.

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I want Dyelin to betray them. It would be awesome if she were a dreadlord among dreadlord, since Alviarin is too incompetent to lead the female dreadlords during LB.

 

Are you joking? She has been far more effective than the majority of the forsaken...

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I want Dyelin to betray them. It would be awesome if she were a dreadlord among dreadlord, since Alviarin is too incompetent to lead the female dreadlords during LB.

 

Are you joking? She has been far more effective than the majority of the forsaken...

 

Indeed she was. I particularly like how Liandrin and Galena are relegated to lives of meaningless subserviance to their current captors. Alviarin is one of the few agents of the shadow who was much more than a star wars stormtrooper. She definately was more interesting than some of the forsaken and with thinned ranks she ought to recieve some "honors".

 

I could easily see Dyelin as being a traitor but not wholly evil- kinda like ingtar was - to protect Shinear (spelling). She is very clever and proably the smartest woman in Andor with Elayne gone.

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Egwene. The Tower could truly be unified under the Shadow, and her skills in TAR would be useful. Lanfear might have a thing or two to teach her about breaking the wards on Rand's dreams...

 

It doesn't really fit within the themes and framewrok of the story but could you imagine how huge that would be? It would seriously drive the fandom into a total frenzy...I think if things were a bit different it could have been a really cool twist.

 

Egwene al'Vere betraying al'Thor... yeah.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinevere

 

Right. I'm not giving up hope of that, just yet. It would transform Egwene from my least favorite character to my most favorite. And it would definately enhance my opinion of Jordan. As of right now, I think Egwene is a complete Mary Sue, and that Jordan didn't realize that is not to his credit. But if it's all a feint ....beautiful.

 

I'm all for Egwene banging Min, Avi, Elayne, or any combination of the 3.

 

My point being, Guinevere's betryal wasn't really a betryal in the "turning to the shadow" sense... so i'm not sure where the parallel would be.

Edited by Kael Pyralis

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I don't see any of the main characters turning to the DO of their own free will. I predict either revelations of people already having been DF's for a while, or forced conversions via 13x13. I've had a bad feeling that Logain will be an unwilling DF, but im crossing my fingers that he won't

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Egwene. The Tower could truly be unified under the Shadow, and her skills in TAR would be useful. Lanfear might have a thing or two to teach her about breaking the wards on Rand's dreams...

 

It doesn't really fit within the themes and framewrok of the story but could you imagine how huge that would be? It would seriously drive the fandom into a total frenzy...I think if things were a bit different it could have been a really cool twist.

 

Egwene al'Vere betraying al'Thor... yeah.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinevere

 

Right. I'm not giving up hope of that, just yet. It would transform Egwene from my least favorite character to my most favorite. And it would definately enhance my opinion of Jordan. As of right now, I think Egwene is a complete Mary Sue, and that Jordan didn't realize that is not to his credit. But if it's all a feint ....beautiful.

 

I'm all for Egwene banging Min, Avi, Elayne, or any combination of the 3.

 

My point being, Guinevere's betryal wasn't really a betryal in the "turning to the shadow" sense... so i'm not sure where the parallel would be.

 

That's because you are only familiar with the versions of the story where Guinevere "bangs" Lancelot. As opposed to those versions where she actively betrays Arthur with Mordred.

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Or she might betray the Light unwittingly, if she were indeed under Compulsion (which I strongly suspect she is), for example.

 

Be that as it may, I suggest that with TG upon Randland, there are only two sides. If you're not for the Light, you're against it - active card-carrying DF or not.

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Or she might betray the Light unwittingly, if she were indeed under Compulsion (which I strongly suspect she is), for example.

 

Be that as it may, I suggest that with TG upon Randland, there are only two sides. If you're not for the Light, you're against it - active card-carrying DF or not.

 

Also possible, of course. Halima must have been doing something.

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Hum...now that I think of it, a compulsed Egwene is quite possible. I don't like the idea of her turning to the Shadow though. I don't like her 'we AS are the last hope of the world omg without us the world cant go on', but I like her willingness to do what must be done and what is correct.

If she is under compulsion I think it would be a subtel one: She is herself, but has a compulsion designed to act when a circumstance is met. And I think Nynaeve would heal it.

Besides, she was engaged with Rand, but no more. I think Guinevere parallelism wouldn't apply. If you think something of the likes will happen, I would look closely at Min. Though I hope nothing of this happens. Call me idealist >,<

Edited by Naggash

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Compulsion idea comes from "Halima" and her massages.

 

I really cannot believe that all she was doing was blocking her ability to Dream. What a useless waste of Balthamael. You have a woman claiming to be Amyrlin, and doing a good job at getting AS under her control, surely you are doing SOMETHING better than blocking Dreams.

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I'm surprised no one mentioned Min's viewing of Bashere. "something... dark"

 

She wonders what will happen if he dies or turns on Rand.

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Compulsion idea comes from "Halima" and her massages.

 

I really cannot believe that all she was doing was blocking her ability to Dream. What a useless waste of Balthamael. You have a woman claiming to be Amyrlin, and doing a good job at getting AS under her control, surely you are doing SOMETHING better than blocking Dreams.

 

so the forsaken are worthless? what's new in that? getting killed by a treeman and then getting snookered by graendal is simply a waste of ink and paper. pretty much the entire cast of the forsaken are worthless except for asmo and mesaana,

 

i mean how hard is it to kidnap egwene, take her to shayol ghul and be done with it?

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so the forsaken are worthless? what's new in that? getting killed by a treeman and then getting snookered by graendal is simply a waste of ink and paper. pretty much the entire cast of the forsaken are worthless except for asmo and mesaana,

 

i mean how hard is it to kidnap egwene, take her to shayol ghul and be done with it?

 

Heh, you have a point. I suspect she wasn't taken to SG because they, being how they are, didn't think she was important enough. Just some random kid puppet-Amyrlin who they are using to keep the AS at each others' throats. Little did they know or suspect that she would be badass and lay down the law to the AS. Still, given her connection to Rand, they should have seen something was up. She may not be ta'veren, but surely you would see she was going to be important.

 

The Forsaken have been a disappointment, but at least there was some reason for their failure, no matter how tenuous. Ishamael got smacked because he was raving mad, and didn't take Rand seriously. When he got Callandor, well, a sword is still a sword, no matter how skilled you are, and when you have a large sword like Callandor, I suspect I would run as well.

 

Semirhage was at least just being Semirhage, and how could she have predicted Rand given access to the True Power?

 

But bloody Balthamael had Egwene for weeks.There are no excuses there, they may be worthless, but only a brain-dead Mesaana would be THAT worthless, surely.

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I thought Halima wasn't good at compulsion! And I thought that Halima's role coupled with Mesaana was to have a divided, warring WT distracted away from the LB and ripe for more recruitment into the BA to present the DO a nice "brood" of channelers. The idea was to keep the two Aes Sedai camps at each other's throats without a clear winner.

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I thought Halima wasn't good at compulsion! And I thought that Halima's role coupled with Mesaana was to have a divided, warring WT distracted away from the LB and ripe for more recruitment into the BA to present the DO a nice "brood" of channelers. The idea was to keep the two Aes Sedai camps at each other's throats without a clear winner.

 

Fat lot of good Halima did there.

 

Although Balthamael isn't as good as Graendal with compulsion, a little touch here and there wouldn't be impossible. But that wasn't necessarily the whole point, even if there was no compulsion, he didn't really do much outwardly. Kill a few Aes Sedai. Egwene did the rest, apparently by herself.

 

Unless she was compelled to go to war against the Tower.

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I thought Halima wasn't good at compulsion! And I thought that Halima's role coupled with Mesaana was to have a divided, warring WT distracted away from the LB and ripe for more recruitment into the BA to present the DO a nice "brood" of channelers. The idea was to keep the two Aes Sedai camps at each other's throats without a clear winner.

 

Fat lot of good Halima did there.

 

Although Balthamael isn't as good as Graendal with compulsion, a little touch here and there wouldn't be impossible. But that wasn't necessarily the whole point, even if there was no compulsion, he didn't really do much outwardly. Kill a few Aes Sedai. Egwene did the rest, apparently by herself.

 

Unless she was compelled to go to war against the Tower.

 

They were playing the "child" against the "fool." And that's how they work, behind the scenes pulling strings. The WT was divided and in the midst of its civil war. The Tower was divided into thirds: one with Elaida, one with Salidar, and one on the sidelines. The Tower's power was reduced greatly; and it was effectively out of the fight against the Shadow during its divide. If Egwene and Siuan didn't act to unify the Tower, it would have dwindled in influence and effectiveness even further. The BA would have ended up the single most powerful faction in the Tower if it remained divided.

 

Ultimately the plan failed; but it was one of the few detailed schemes of the Shadow that were actually working for an extended period of time.

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Edit: Perhaps best not to derail the thread further, I would be happy to discuss further if a thread is created, up to you guys.

 

In any case, compulsion or no, Egwene wouldn't actively be betraying the Light. I don't think she would if she knew. But still would be interesting.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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1) The headaches made Egwene more open to manipulation, as well as preventing her for ploting with all her cunning.

2) She had an eye on the rebels.

3) Through Delana she instigated division in the rebel camp like the one in the WT.

4) Freed Mogeh.

5) Killed some important AS; not that their importance was the reason. Just more confusion, fear and division.

6) Keeping Egwene from Dreaming may seem to you as secondary, but I find it quite important. True that her Dreams aren't Light salvation but who knows if she would have dreamt about a female saidin channeler, or about another forsaken in the camp, etc... It was a clever and important coutermessure.

7) We don't actually know what she were up to while off-screen which was pretty much all the time.

 

So you may say that she did nothing, but I think she did quite enough. She was the rebel Mesaana + things we don't know + there's still the possibilitie for subtle compulsion made to awaken in certain circumstances. And her death was much more important than Mesaana's for example. She opens a lot of possibilities for plot turns with Graendal dead for our boy.

Edited by Naggash

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Compulsion idea comes from "Halima" and her massages.

 

I really cannot believe that all she was doing was blocking her ability to Dream. What a useless waste of Balthamael. You have a woman claiming to be Amyrlin, and doing a good job at getting AS under her control, surely you are doing SOMETHING better than blocking Dreams.

 

Manchurian Candidate?

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Let's just hope she doesn't see the 'Dark One's Eyes' in a game of dice. Or the 'Ruler of Rods' in someone's cards.

Edited by FarShainMael

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i am baffled that non has mentioned any children of light as would be DF. I mean the high inquisitor and his minions are more than plusable to turn to the dark they are at least on the top of my list and don't forget child Byar ( even if he mayby already are a df).

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It could indeed happen.. Remember Egwene had a Dream of Galad 'wrapping himself in white as though putting on his own shroud' (TSR11), a shroud being something you wrap around a dead body before burying it..

.

Edited by FarShainMael

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