Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Far Madding in aMoL


Recommended Posts

Just randomly it came to me.

 

What on earth will be going on with Far Madding in the Last Battle?

 

I mean, it is, for obvious reasons, unlikely to be somewhere the Forsaken spend much time in, but what about other darkfriends?

 

Does the Shadow have any plan for Far Madding? I think that every nation has been attacked by the Shadow in some way, directly or indirectly.

 

Has any Chaos been sowed in Far Madding?

 

What about an army? Could they even field a respectable force to fight in the Last Battle?

 

And the Guardians are unique and many possibilities arise from this.

 

Could Shadowspawn use Far Madding as a staging point? Channellers are the only advantage the Light really has, Trollocs and Fades are stronger than your average man, and there are 10x as many. Why not take a city where you are protected from Channelling? It would mean the Light would either have to use a large army to take the city back, or they would have to use an army to prevent the Shadowspawn from striking out from the city. It would force a large chunk of the Light to be separated from the main forces.

 

What does everyone think will happen with Far Madding in the final book? Important city, or has it already served its purpose?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You mean aside from husbands suffering exceptional punishments/straps/canes/slippers by wives over anxious by the chaos in the world?!

 

From a tactical point of view, Far Madding doesn't serve a significant purpose. It is in the middle of 4 kingdoms that strongly support Rand. It would not be a suitable military staging area (in my opinion).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From a tactical point of view, Far Madding doesn't serve a significant purpose. It is in the middle of 4 kingdoms that strongly support Rand. It would not be a suitable military staging area (in my opinion).

 

Fair enough, as I am no military genius myself, you may well be right. I thought, however, this would be a reason exactly why it would be a great stage for an attack. Right in the middle of the "Empire".

 

Each of the 4 nations would feel like they could be attacked and would send troops to defend their nations. While the Blight is behind the Shadowspawn armies in the north, the southern kingdoms can feel secure enough to lend a hand, and just defend on one front with a large, powerful force of troops.

 

To mess things up, you hit from all sides, so the enemy is divided. The whole divide and conquer routine. The Shadow certainly has the numbers. Prey on the insecurities of the kingdoms, instead of helping each other out in a combined "forces of the Light" each nation would look to protect its own lands, which makes reinforcements less likely.

 

Of course, this is what makes Murandy such a desirable location for the Shadow, it is smack bang in the middle of everything, you could cut the world like a knife from Lugard.

 

However, while I still think Murandy is a good area, I think taking Far Madding would still be beneficial. With Travelling availible now, fighting is relatively easier, you can strike from multiple directions with large forces. Also Channelling plays a big part in defeating the enemy.

 

WIth the FM Guardians though, it makes this impossible. You would be forced to take the city by conventional methods, with no Channellers and the enemy would be fully prepared, you couldn't drop out of the sky in the middle of the city.

 

And you couldn't leave Far Madding alone in the hands of Shadowspawn. Shol Arebela or Maradon you could, since you could just retreat further south and still be defending against the enemy on one front. From Far Madding, however, the enemy could strike in any direction they pleased. Similar to Murandy. It could not be left alone, or, if you did, Cairhien, Tear, Illian, Murandy and Andor would have to be fortified in case of an attack. Which would diminish the troops available to defend against the attacks in the north and Caemlyn.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know shadowspawn are said to avoid ogier stedding which operate in similar fashion to the Guardians. So it could be possible they would have a natural avoidance to Far Madding.

 

Despite that fact, until most recently was occupied by over 200,000 strong United Borderlander Army and at least 13 Aes Sedai. If there was shenanigans going on, I am sure they would have uncovered something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know shadowspawn are said to avoid ogier stedding which operate in similar fashion to the Guardians. So it could be possible they would have a natural avoidance to Far Madding.

 

Despite that fact, until most recently was occupied by over 200,000 strong United Borderlander Army and at least 13 Aes Sedai. If there was shenanigans going on, I am sure they would have uncovered something.

 

Like they did in Caemlyn? Or Tear? (in tSR) Or Ebou Dar? (with Tylee in tGS) Or Rand at the Manor?

 

Point being, if there is a Waygate or Portal Stones near, it would be a surprise attack. I don't think the Borderlanders or their Aes Sedai could know.

 

You have a point about the steddings, I am not sure what would happen with Shadowspawn/ Far Madding. I think they are different though.

If you were referring to something going down with DF's or something in the city, then fair enough, although I don't think that the Borderlanders were allowed in the city, they camped outside of it in range of the Guardians. Plus they wouldn't be too welcome with the no-weapon thing.

 

True Power can be used in Far Madding, however, not in a Stedding. I don't think Shadowspawn would avoid it, I think the stedding has something to do with blocking the TP, which was used in the creation of the Shadowspawn, however, I suppose the point is open.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fah, Far Madding. The silliest of Rand-land's political constructs. It occupies an important crossroads, and so can control trade, yes? And has no known allies. But none of it's neighbors simply take over? Silliness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fah, Far Madding. The silliest of Rand-land's political constructs. It occupies an important crossroads, and so can control trade, yes? And has no known allies. But none of it's neighbors simply take over? Silliness.

 

I know right? It is as Rand said, it has always been a thorn in their side.

 

I would like to see their catchpoles and useless weapons the guards use go up against a Thakandar blade.

 

I just got this while searching around for FM.

 

Rand sealed the Waygates at Caemlyn, Cairhien, Illian and Tear. He put a deadly trap on the open one at Fal Dara but he could not find the Waygate at Far Madding.

 

If the Waygate is in the city, as I think, it would be perfect.

 

You have this place that blocks the One Power, but not the True Power, the society is peaceful and matriarchal, war is not on their agenda, the guards do not even have proper weapons for war. It a a critical crossroads leading to at least 3 of the biggest cities on the continent. How could the Shadow NOT attack it. It is like dangling a bit of meat in front of a crocodile's nose.

 

The problem, of course, being what Sam pointed out, a question of whether or not Shadowspawn are adversely affected by the Guardians. If not, I expect an attack, or else the Shadow is foolish.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The real question is, do the Guardians prevent Traveling?

 

By Rand/Nynaeve's time in Far Madding, we know that the Guardians essentially create a bubble shielding channelers from the Source. But with the Wells, Nynaeve was able to channel by not relying on the Source; that means that the Guardians do not "unweave" like Mat's medallion. Also, didn't Rand almost Balefire Far Madding?

 

Both of these things seem to indicate that a weave woven outside of the bubble would be able to work inside. So Traveling would not be impeded, as long as it is someone Traveling from, say, Tear, to Far Madding. So Rand would be able to deal with the problem with less trouble than we'd think. (Not no trouble; he wouldn't be much use himself, and as soon as he stepped through, he'd be cut off, closing the Gateway.)

 

(Just found out that Ctr+I works to italicize on DM. Yay! Bye-bye all-caps for emphasis!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could Shadowspawn use Far Madding as a staging point? Channellers are the only advantage the Light really has, Trollocs and Fades are stronger than your average man, and there are 10x as many. Why not take a city where you are protected from Channelling? It would mean the Light would either have to use a large army to take the city back, or they would have to use an army to prevent the Shadowspawn from striking out from the city. It would force a large chunk of the Light to be separated from the main forces.

Because it is an island in the middle of a lake, they are in a pretty good defensive point, so if somehow the shadow did take the city, it would be hell taking it back. But restricted access to get to the city also means restricted access for them to strike out from the city. A small army could hold them in indefinitely and as such wouldn't be much use to the shadow. Odds are they will just send a few thousand soldiers and be forgotten about.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No point taking FM unless it can be used as an access point. It's an interesting thought though. If some DF army controls Murandy and another controls FM, the South and Centre of Westland are completely busted,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We also don't know the effectiveness of the guardian. It is ter'angreal, but remember all types of angreal have limits. Say it was created by 10 strong channelers, perhapse it could block a dozen or channelers, but would it be able to cut off, say, 50 channelers all channeling at once?

 

Also, when Rand was about to Balefire FM, he was using the TP, which the guardian can't stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No point taking FM unless it can be used as an access point. It's an interesting thought though. If some DF army controls Murandy and another controls FM, the South and Centre of Westland are completely busted,

 

With the armies of the Light gathered in one place and the Shadow's forces split between half a dozen locations, someone like Mat can take advantage of Traveling and superior forces to fight the Shadow's scattered forces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Far Madding will be targeted and balefired by the Shadow, or maybe it will be used as a crux versus the Seanchan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the guardian ter'angreal that blocks OP is built into the place in such a way that its stuck there, or if it could in theory be moved to another location.

 

We already had confirmation from Rand, that the guardian blocks the One Power, and One Power only, and that if he had went there to meet the borderlanders pre-epiphany, he would have used True Power to balefire them all.

 

Since LTT knows about the guardian ter'angreal, we can assume that the shadow and Moridin know too. Would it be possible for Moridin to use True Power to travel to the center of Far Madding and use weaves of TP air to lift the whole guardian ter'angreal and move it away through a gateway. That would give the shadow a massive advantage if they had a ter'angreal that would block all the channelers of the light (OP users), but which would not affect channelers of the dark (TP users).

 

Moridin could take it to SG and leave Rand unable to channel there, or use TP gateways to move it along the invading trolloc armies, rendering the Asha'man and Aes Sedai useless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice idea - if Moridin can turn it on/ off, move it, he has a powerful weapon. One thing, the Guardian is post-Breaking IIRC. But of course, Ishamel was around and may have studied it being the philosopher dude he is, when he's not frying rats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah Far Madding is a bit of a weird one alright. It's the only city we know of that survived from the AoL. Which came as a bit of a surprise to me, and I thought that maybe it was a Brandon Sanderson addition, but it actually makes perfect sense if the Guardians were put in place early enough in the Breaking to prevent the city's destruction. (Thinking about it, I assume the city's 'men are inferior' thing is meant to be a remnant from the Breaking too.)

 

Personally, I think the Guardians or the mechanics behind them are going to play some role in AMoL, since they're just too different from everything else not to play a part. Also that 'he couldn't find the Far Madding waygate' thing is defintely ominous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Personally, I think the Guardians or the mechanics behind them are going to play some role in AMoL, since they're just too different from everything else not to play a part. Also that 'he couldn't find the Far Madding waygate' thing is defintely ominous.

 

This is what I was getting at. +1

 

Remembering that FM is not a country, it is a city. The Waygate is inside the city.

 

And FM guards are useless anyway, they are not fighting men. FM detests fighting, as evidenced with the Bonds of Peace. I doubt the Shadow will obey such laws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had never before even considered the importance of Far Madding.

 

Completely overlooked it.

 

But you all have convinced me.

 

Far Madding will fall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What could the Dark One and his hordes of Shadowspawn possibly do to make Far Madding any more miserable than it already is?

 

Jokes aside Far Madding just doesn't matter enough to get more of a honorable mention. A five page POV in the Prologue of how Far Madding is hit by a meteor or wiped out by some sort of plague or whatever would be enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice idea - if Moridin can turn it on/ off, move it, he has a powerful weapon. One thing, the Guardian is post-Breaking IIRC. But of course, Ishamel was around and may have studied it being the philosopher dude he is, when he's not frying rats.

 

Moridin does not need to turn it on or off, thats the whole point. The guardian is a ter'angreal that affects the One Power ONLY. Moridin now channels True Power exclusively, which means that the guardian would have absolutely no effect on him. It would however be devastating for Rand who does wield the One Power, since it would either mean that Rand would be unable to channel at all (and be easily defeated by Moridin), or be forced to channel True Power again and taint himself further. And while the Guardian is post-breaking, LTT/Rand atleast seemed to believe/know that it would not work on TP. Which makes sense considering that it was made to block OP and the DO was sealed and there were no more TP channelers (or so everyone would have thought).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

who says they could even grow a waygate in FM, the ter angreal used would need to access the TS thus rendering it ineffective.

 

but if they decided to put the waygate outside of the city then FM could be very useful indeed, surround, massacre, use it as a staging area

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, they built a Waygate at Aran Mador, which is now Far Madding.

 

The guardians do not necessarily prevent building a Waygate. They only block a channeler from sensing the True Source, they do not prevent channeling, like the stedding.

 

The Talisman of Growing does not require channeling, it does use the Power in some way, but not active channeling.

 

The inability to form Waygates inside a stedding seem to indicate that weaves of the One Power can not exist inside, even if channeled from outside. Far Madding's ter'angreal, the Guardian, simply prevents one from embracing/seizing the Source, but weaves from outside can penetrate the barrier.

 

The use of Wells and the fact that weaves can be used, and penetrate the barrier, make the guardians different. Activated by the Treesinging, the standing flows of saidin that are used in the growing of a Waygate would still be able to work.

 

 

Now, that does not mean that it is in the city necessarily. But it CAN be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wondering whether the Guardians are adjustable, whther their range of influence can be altered. I don't think we know enough about them to say either way; but if they could be made to cover a sizeable area of Randland, leaving only the TP available to Moridin (and Rand?), that would be a problem for the Light.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could be, but I doubt that will happen. If it was possible, Far Madding would have done that a long time ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wondering whether the Guardians are adjustable, whther their range of influence can be altered. I don't think we know enough about them to say either way; but if they could be made to cover a sizeable area of Randland, leaving only the TP available to Moridin (and Rand?), that would be a problem for the Light.

 

I don't think that would be too much of a problem. After Rand defeats Moridin, no one else would be able to channel except him and he would be able to own. However, Callandor would not work, not to mention other prophecies, so it can't happen because of that either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...