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What is the deal with the Egwene-hate?


michellem
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I've never understood the level of Egwene hate. She has her annoying habits (as do many of the characters) but that is what makes them feel more real.

 

I think she is great when she stands up to Elaida and in fighting off the Seanchan. These are her best scenes in my opinion.

The Elaida one is definitely her best scene. I also liked the fight with Mesaana. I've just never liked her personality as a whole. Hell the only person I've actually liked is Mat, and that's because he is comedic relief, also because unlike most of the other characters (Rand, Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Berelain, Gawyn, Deira Bashere, Mazrim Taim, Logain post-healing, etc.) he isn't incredibly arrogant.

 

Side note: I just noticed that almost all of the characters mentioned above are channelers. Huh... I guess people with that kind of power are usually super arrogant.

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I've never understood the level of Egwene hate. She has her annoying habits (as do many of the characters) but that is what makes them feel more real.

 

I think she is great when she stands up to Elaida and in fighting off the Seanchan. These are her best scenes in my opinion.

The Elaida one is definitely her best scene. I also liked the fight with Mesaana. I've just never liked her personality as a whole. Hell the only person I've actually liked is Mat, and that's because he is comedic relief, also because unlike most of the other characters (Rand, Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Berelain, Gawyn, Deira Bashere, Mazrim Taim, Logain post-healing, etc.) he isn't incredibly arrogant.

 

Except for Taim they're also all nobility, even royalty for some.

Edited by Master Ablar
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I've never understood the level of Egwene hate. She has her annoying habits (as do many of the characters) but that is what makes them feel more real.

 

I think she is great when she stands up to Elaida and in fighting off the Seanchan. These are her best scenes in my opinion.

The Elaida one is definitely her best scene. I also liked the fight with Mesaana. I've just never liked her personality as a whole. Hell the only person I've actually liked is Mat, and that's because he is comedic relief, also because unlike most of the other characters (Rand, Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Berelain, Gawyn, Deira Bashere, Mazrim Taim, Logain post-healing, etc.) he isn't incredibly arrogant.

 

Except for Taim they're also all nobility, even royalty for some.

I think we are drawing important parallels. It appears that RJs message is "People with power are annoying, condescending, arrogant, asshats."

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I've never understood the level of Egwene hate. She has her annoying habits (as do many of the characters) but that is what makes them feel more real.

 

I think she is great when she stands up to Elaida and in fighting off the Seanchan. These are her best scenes in my opinion.

The Elaida one is definitely her best scene. I also liked the fight with Mesaana. I've just never liked her personality as a whole. Hell the only person I've actually liked is Mat, and that's because he is comedic relief, also because unlike most of the other characters (Rand, Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Berelain, Gawyn, Deira Bashere, Mazrim Taim, Logain post-healing, etc.) he isn't incredibly arrogant.

 

Except for Taim they're also all nobility, even royalty for some.

I think we are drawing important parallels. It appears that RJs message is "People with power are annoying, condescending, arrogant, asshats."

 

Well, he was in the military...

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there a diffrence between dislike and hate.

 

cant talk for others , but i have no hate for Egw i simply dont like her.

 

another part of why is becouse the way she portraid as better then the rest.

 

i liked her when she was with the Wise one and i enjoy her solo adventure in the WT. (altough i really dont like how most of the AS been written)

but this are the exeption and not the norm in regard to Egw.

 

i dont mind char flow but i dont like when the char flow are shown as merits.

i think what Egw lack the most is a PoV from a side spectator who pass objective commantery.

 

take Nyn for example i really warmed to Nyn during her advanture with Elain.

where u been given Elain view of her and instead of remaining a 2 dimensional char -> angry pushy strong channeler, we got a view of the person inside.

 

smart and strong willed but having trouble to admit when she wrong , stingy but capable to great generocity. her acting near Lan...

u get a full person there merits and flows, i dont get a full person from Egw

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People hate Egwene because she is pretentious. She thinks too much of her self, and is always ready to put someone else down (especially a man). She has very few redeeming qualities.

 

This is generally true of all the female characters in the books though. I am beginning to like Nynave and Faile though.

 

Of the men the only ones I have really liked are Matt and Logain. Perrin and Rand like to wine too much. Gawyn's annoying all around. Galad is not really meant to be liked. All the warders are just hanging on the skirts of the aes sedai, and don't have a legitimate opinion. You're left with only Matt and Logain with decent personalities.

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People hate Egwene because she is pretentious. She thinks too much of her self, and is always ready to put someone else down (especially a man). She has very few redeeming qualities.

 

This is generally true of all the female characters in the books though. I am beginning to like Nynave and Faile though.

 

Of the men the only ones I have really liked are Matt and Logain. Perrin and Rand like to wine too much. Gawyn's annoying all around. Galad is not really meant to be liked. All the warders are just hanging on the skirts of the aes sedai, and don't have a legitimate opinion. You're left with only Matt and Logain with decent personalities.

 

I like a few more than you :)

 

To the men I'd add Tam, Lan and Talmanes (for a start)

 

I have a deal of sympathy for Rand, but he's not necessarily likeable, Perrin is mostly annoying (although I think I'm in the minority in liking Perrins ToM arc, and thought it was very very necessary).

 

Moiraine, Siaun, Leane, Min, Avi, Amys... Quite a few more actually.

 

Eg's tricky, she's been put in a position where she can't do many 'nice' things, but she's done a lot of 'good' things. For me she gets a lot of bonus points for her reaction to Rand in tEotW. But their is hypocrisy. As 1 example she berates Myrelle for accepting Lans bond, but would she rather he died when Moiraine passed through the gate? She pretended to be AS for months and threatens (may be too harsh a word) Nicola and Areina when they threaten to expose them. I understand the reasons behind it, and everything she did was for the 'greater good', but that doesn't stop it from being hypocrisy.

 

For me, some of her stand out moments are actually things like appointing a Red her Keeper. It may well be lowest denominator writing, but I liked both the declaration of war meeting and the repeat in the Tower.

 

The Seanchan invasion was impressive, but was just power in the end (for me not as impressive, shrugs) although to give credit the circles was an excellent idea, if copied from the Salidar defences.

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As of now, I'm on book 8, and the only time I've really found myself annoyed with Egwene was in book 5. She was quite condescending in that one, and now that she's Amyrlin you would think she would realize she was being a bit judgmental... nope, of course not. Perrin is the only character who ever seems to acknowledge his flaws, and he acknowledges flaws he doesn't have thanks to Faile :wink:

 

She's becoming much more interesting to follow, though.

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People hate Egwene because she is pretentious. She thinks too much of her self, and is always ready to put someone else down (especially a man). She has very few redeeming qualities.

 

This is generally true of all the female characters in the books though. I am beginning to like Nynave and Faile though.

 

Of the men the only ones I have really liked are Matt and Logain. Perrin and Rand like to wine too much. Gawyn's annoying all around. Galad is not really meant to be liked. All the warders are just hanging on the skirts of the aes sedai, and don't have a legitimate opinion. You're left with only Matt and Logain with decent personalities.

 

I like a few more than you :)

 

To the men I'd add Tam, Lan and Talmanes (for a start)

 

I have a deal of sympathy for Rand, but he's not necessarily likeable, Perrin is mostly annoying (although I think I'm in the minority in liking Perrins ToM arc, and thought it was very very necessary).

 

Moiraine, Siaun, Leane, Min, Avi, Amys... Quite a few more actually.

 

Eg's tricky, she's been put in a position where she can't do many 'nice' things, but she's done a lot of 'good' things. For me she gets a lot of bonus points for her reaction to Rand in tEotW. But their is hypocrisy. As 1 example she berates Myrelle for accepting Lans bond, but would she rather he died when Moiraine passed through the gate? She pretended to be AS for months and threatens (may be too harsh a word) Nicola and Areina when they threaten to expose them. I understand the reasons behind it, and everything she did was for the 'greater good', but that doesn't stop it from being hypocrisy.

 

For me, some of her stand out moments are actually things like appointing a Red her Keeper. It may well be lowest denominator writing, but I liked both the declaration of war meeting and the repeat in the Tower.

 

The Seanchan invasion was impressive, but was just power in the end (for me not as impressive, shrugs) although to give credit the circles was an excellent idea, if copied from the Salidar defences.

 

I do like Tam and Talmanes. Forgot about them. Should add Thom

 

Moiraine got better after she promised to obey Rand. Until then she was just like all the other female harpies who are self-important, self centered, condescending, and generally unlikable. Suian was the same.

 

I do like the captivity of Egwene in the WT. I thought the battle with the Seanchan, and her triumph over Elaida was great. That's one of the parts of the series I like to go back and read now and then. But she is still arrogant and annoying. She likes to talk about Rand's big head, but she has the biggest head of anyone in the story.

Edited by JimboSlice
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I have no problem with Egwene--or rather, perhaps, I have no problem with what Egwene was growing into under RJ, or even to degrees in tGS. In TofM though she just suffers a massive reversion to self-involved. Didn't love that.

 

Egwene in CoT or KoD though... probably one of my favourite characters.

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Never felt any real Egwene hate, I am on book 12 now though and I find myself irritated every time Egwene opines on the Dragon Reborn and asha'man in general. She is too arrogant, too sure of the Aes Sedais place as being at the top managing others.

 

I am in the beginning of this book yet but if this goes further I can see why she rasies some peoples hackles. But in this she is almost like every other WOT character so far, I find myself angry everyone at turns and rooting for them at others. The only one I wholly dislike so far is Tuon, and her handmaid.

Edited by HDS
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Never felt any real Egwene hate, I am on book 12 now though and I find myself irritated every time Egwene opines on the Dragon Reborn and asha'man in general. She is too arrogant, too sure of the Aes Sedais place as being at the top managing others.

 

I am in the beginning of this book yet but if this goes further I can see why she rasies some peoples hackles. But in this she is almost like every other WOT character so far, I find myself angry everyone at turns and rooting for them at others. The only one I wholly dislike so far is Tuon, and her handmaid.

Is it Tuon you dislike or is it the culture she represents that you dislike? Of all the Seanchan I think Tuon is one of the most understanding of the new cultures she conquers than anyone else we've seen. Suroth destroyed the cultures of the Almoth Plain, Tarabon, and Amadacia, while Tuon accepted the Ebou Dari culture, and just slightly altered it to make it fit well under her rule. Tuon looks as if she is ready for a change (that I think we will see), and she is proving that by marrying Mat, both a commoner(technically) and a foreigner, and has raised Beslan to the Blood.

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Never felt any real Egwene hate, I am on book 12 now though and I find myself irritated every time Egwene opines on the Dragon Reborn and asha'man in general. She is too arrogant, too sure of the Aes Sedais place as being at the top managing others.

 

I am in the beginning of this book yet but if this goes further I can see why she rasies some peoples hackles. But in this she is almost like every other WOT character so far, I find myself angry everyone at turns and rooting for them at others. The only one I wholly dislike so far is Tuon, and her handmaid.

Is it Tuon you dislike or is it the culture she represents that you dislike? Of all the Seanchan I think Tuon is one of the most understanding of the new cultures she conquers than anyone else we've seen. Suroth destroyed the cultures of the Almoth Plain, Tarabon, and Amadacia, while Tuon accepted the Ebou Dari culture, and just slightly altered it to make it fit well under her rule. Tuon looks as if she is ready for a change (that I think we will see), and she is proving that by marrying Mat, both a commoner(technically) and a foreigner, and has raised Beslan to the Blood.

 

I dislike Tuon and I loathe the culture she represents. So far in the books I have yet to see anything that makes me like her. I am now at the bit where Beslan submits to the seanchan.

Edited by HDS
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I really dislike her character, she's a Mary Sue and worse an arrogant Mary Sue. It makes certain parts of the book extremely difficult to read because you know Egwene won't get checked on her arrogance. Most other arrogant characters had some one to check them at some point(Rand has Cadsuane, Elayne has Aviendha) but Egwene doesn't have this and her character really needs it.

 

Her and Gawyn are the only two characters I've come to dislike, but at least Egwene has (very rare) moments where she can be cool, there is nothing redeemable about Gawyn though...

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I think one of the biggest problems with Egwene is that she has come to embody every negative trait of the White Tower. She has a double dose of Aes Sedai arrogance, and a complete inability to relate to others.

 

The difference between Egwene and Nynaeve is that Nynaeve is fully aware of her own shortcomings andy hypocrisies, and struggles to correct them (usually). Egwene can't or won't ... she seems to thrive off of them.

 

/thread

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I think one of the biggest problems with Egwene is that she has come to embody every negative trait of the White Tower. She has a double dose of Aes Sedai arrogance, and a complete inability to relate to others.

 

The difference between Egwene and Nynaeve is that Nynaeve is fully aware of her own shortcomings andy hypocrisies, and struggles to correct them (usually). Egwene can't or won't ... she seems to thrive off of them.

 

/thread

 

Not sure why this was brought back up but anyone who goes back in this thread can see it was soundly refuted at the time.

Edited by Suttree
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I think one of the biggest problems with Egwene is that she has come to embody every negative trait of the White Tower. She has a double dose of Aes Sedai arrogance, and a complete inability to relate to others.

 

The difference between Egwene and Nynaeve is that Nynaeve is fully aware of her own shortcomings andy hypocrisies, and struggles to correct them (usually). Egwene can't or won't ... she seems to thrive off of them.

 

/thread

 

Not sure why this was brought back up but anyone who goes back in this thread can see it was soundly refuted at the time.

 

Didn't realize this thread was that old.

 

Regardless, Egwene is an arrogant kid that rubs nearly all the readers the wrong way, beside a handful of her ardent fans.

 

I do give her credit for enduring and becoming the Amyrlin.

Edited by Entreri
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I doubt people actually know the true meaning of the word arrogance.

 

If egwene is arrogant then what was elaida?

 

and special lololol for the person who said egwene thrives on her shortcomings and mistakes. I guess the poor lass who felt guily and regret when she saw her dying warder who nearly got finished by seanchan assasasins, was right after all was some figment of my imagination.

 

Which brings me back to an interesting new theory i have developed. Apart from the haters being rand al thor fanboys they also have developed this uncanny ability to gloss over anything and everything good the mother has done in the space of 6 books from the moment she was crowned amyrlin in salidar.

 

 

Not even grudging respect. Not that i am complaining ofcourse. I sincerely thank robert jordan and harriet for creating the finest mary sue character the world has ever seen. The best in the business. Enough to make people froth at the mouth!

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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I adore Egwene and i think that people who trash her just don't have anything better to do. I also dislike some of the WOT characters but i never insult them because i don't want to offend their fans.

Egwene in ubelievable! She is one of the brightest women in the books. She is my favourate along with Nynaeve, Elayne, Moiraine and Aviendha. Egwene is a leader. I love her because she's beautiful, smart and ambitious, but goodhearted too. I admit she has negatives, but most of the characters have. And besides when i put myself in her shoes i really can fathom why she did some of the mistakes she did.

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I doubt people actually know the true meaning of the word arrogance.

 

If egwene is arrogant then what was elaida?

 

and special lololol for the fool who said egwene thrives on her shortcomings and mistakes. I guess the poor lass who felt guily and regret when she saw her dying warder who nearly got finished by seanchan assasasins, was right after all was some figment of my imagination.

 

Which brings me back to an interesting new theory i have developed. Apart from the haters being rand al thor fanboys they also have developed this uncanny ability to gloss over anything and everything good the mother has done in the space of 6 books from the moment she was crowned amyrlin in salidar.

 

 

Not even grudging respect. Not that i am complaining ofcourse. I sincerely thank robert jordan and harriet for creating the finest mary sue character the world has ever seen. The best in the business. Enough to make people froth at the mouth!

 

You must really be offended that people don't like her. I can't stand her. It was really tough reading her pov's until the WT captivity. Admittedly, I liked that part of the story. I thought the storyline was great and some of the scenes in that part were among my favorites in the series. I loved the battle with the seanchan, her confrontation with Elaida, and the way she handled the whole situation. I still can't stand her though. She is still arrogant and pretentious, and reading her pov's after she gained control of the WT makes me want to 'froth at the mouth'. So while you sit there and drool over Egwene, I will be hoping that she gets a serious wake up call that knocks her down to size.

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"If egwene is arrogant then what was elaida?"

 

so we should let all the thieves/robbers/ rapist/ murderer/pimps..... free couse they not as worse as a LUNATIC serial muderer ???

 

yup Egwene is less arogent then Elaida (really 'hard' achivment) , she is also much saner then her (even the Red admit Elai went mad), that dont mean Egwene is not arrogent.

 

and instead of fixating on -> u dont like Egw it must be becouse u are Rand fanboy, please adress points like how Egwene treat Siuan and Nyn.

or how come every AS suddenly become a Moron without any self control so she could be shone as a shining beacon of wydsom in EVERY area of life. (still dont buy an AS going to Ege about how to deal with an Aging warder).

 

yup Egw HAD good scene, and there been situation i (and i believe most of her disliker) rooted for her and even warmed to her.

but this situation are the exeption and usually follow by her Usual i'm Ameralin u must obey and all u puny AS i can read u like a book -> obey puppets

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I doubt people actually know the true meaning of the word arrogance.

 

If egwene is arrogant then what was elaida?

 

Elaida is more arrogant. And perhaps a bit crazy besides... I actually appreciated Elaida, I would have liked her if she was slightly shrewder, and I absolutely adore Tuon (her handmaiden too). Yet I'm not particularly fond of Egwene. She's just about the only pov that fails to capture my interest. Perhaps because her development and rise was delayed compared to the mains, but something about her just feels off. Considering her prominence near the end and the her unlikely climb, I wish RJ had set her up as a ta'veren and even a third part to the Rand/Ish struggle from the very start.

 

Of the men the only ones I have really liked are Matt and Logain. Perrin and Rand like to wine too much. Gawyn's annoying all around. Galad is not really meant to be liked. All the warders are just hanging on the skirts of the aes sedai, and don't have a legitimate opinion. You're left with only Matt and Logain with decent personalities.

 

What makes me dislike the male characters, aside from the whining (though in Rand's case it's somewhat acceptable), is how unambitious they are. Perrin and Rand most of all. Except for the Forsaken (and evil greedy nobles), Logain and Mat are notable in being driven or having interest in anything outside of survival/fulfilling destiny/mundane labor. I mean I get it, but it does make them somewhat dreary. Ambition is a great attribute in fictional characters.

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u forget that Rand and Perrin had other thing to worry about.

 

ambition is based on making a better future.

Rand dont think he have any future -> hard to be ambitious when u believe u die in few weeks (and even then he tried to leave a Legacy/be remembered)

Perrin was fearing he will turn into a wolf -> hard to plan for the future when u dont know if u still be human tomarrow .

 

notice how Perrin accept lordhood and refused to give it up or to surrender TR autonamy (his rule) after he reached inner peace.

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