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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Release Date Announced: Jan. 8, 2013


Kivam
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I'm thrilled to hear that. It makes me very confident that the series are in the best hands. Take all the time you guys need, and know that your efforts are appreciated. :smile:

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I think Luckers makes a strong point. We're all amped up hoping for a fall (maybe even summer!) release, but that doesn't really work for anybody on the publishing side. Sure Brandon could probably pump out his end, but he's young and crazy. Harriet and the other people involved in publishing have other priorities- like a well edited book, and honestly like not working hundred hour weeks even if it were possible or desirable. And setting a worst case delivery date is hardly unheard of. If it takes that long, so be it. If it can be done a month sooner, well thats perfect for the marketing folks. So I wouldn't be surprised to have AMOL in my hands sometime in December, and if that happens I'll be as happy then as I am impatient now. It makes a lot of sense, and better to give everybody a nice surprise by delivering early than risk disappointments by having to push it back at the last minute.

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I was sort of annoyed a few hours ago, but now it doesn't bother me. All of my favorite books and video games get delayed.

 


  •  
  • A Dance With Dragons? We all know that story.
  • The Wise Man's Fear? Delayed heavily.
  • Mass Effect 3? Delayed from Holiday 2011 to March 2012.
  • Half Life 2? Anyone remember that debacle? In fact where is Half Life 3?
  • The next Avatar movies are multiple years away because of delays.

 

I'm sure there are a lot more. I expected November 2012, I can settle for January 2013.

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I love the rage. At it's root it's entitlement from fans...frankly every fan could be pissed off...and we'd still all buy the book to see how the saga ends.

 

 

End of the day, you want the goods, you wait patiently and hope the product is good. They can do whatever they want at this point and we'll still eat it up. You're not a special little snowflake that the author/publisher has to cater to.

 

 

 

Chill.

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The way I look at it, in a few years, I won't even care that AMOL was delayed by two months (or three years, depending on your perspective). The feeling of wanting it now and not later is just a fleeting thing, at least to me. As an example, some of my favorite video games have taken years upon years to produce, and I was admittedly annoyed by their delays, but when the games finally came out, I pretty much forgot any discontent I felt. And the thing is, I have other things to spend my time on in the meantime. I'll make time for The Wheel of Time, whenever it arrives. But if it's not here now, then I move on.

 

I'm beginning to understand why game publishers say "when it's done." Nothing like broken release dates to get the fans riled up.

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In response to the top post on this page by yoniyO:

 

You are very right to be worried about the AMOL Ebook situation.

 

The jist of what happened last time is that Harriet does not understand the Digital Age in which the world now lives. Poor thing. We probably shouldnt expect her to...at this stage. Brandon Sanderson worked his TAIL off to get her to agree to a late January Ebook release for TOM which had been released the previous November. There were even alarming whispers that Harriet was deadest against any Ebook AT ALL. That she sees them as a "threat" , doesn't "understand " them and even that she manipulated the situation in order to assure the continuation of a streak of finishes on The New York Times Bestseller List for WOT Hardbacks. Ugly motivations, to be sure. But be assured, Harriet will never be the "Best Friend" of the Ebook Community. I only pray Brandon is as successful this time as he was last time in persuading her to see the light of day regarding the Ebook release.

 

 

Fish

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I wonder if the release timing, relative to the winter holiday season, has anything to do with avoiding being caught in a situation where your end retailers are offering their products, in this case a book, at severe discount.

 

Between American Thanksgiving & Christmas we see stores more and more often slash prices, sometimes insanely, to get people in the door. Maybe from a certain point of view a publisher would push back a release date so they could maximize their returns, and avoid discount driven sales.

 

Given we're also talking about a final chapter in an epic series, with a physical volume that more than likely is going to be larger than a whole lot of everything else on the shelf, in a hardcover edition. I mean if you were in that situation would you really want to front all the funding to put something of that size out on the market, and then have absolutely no control over whether or not it's being sold at a deep holiday discount by the end retailer?

 

On some level I can see a delay being a move to minimize the effect of a rabid discounted price season, and if it genuinely is for even more polish & editing, than that's awesome too, regardless. Otherwise I could totally understand not injecting an inherently large book, by weight/cost to produce per volume, into seasonal market conditions where you're almost guaranteed to be limiting your initial profitability.

 

From a consumer standpoint yeah I'd want to be able to pick up the final book during the holiday season. You'd be bat shit crazy if you thought you wouldn't be able to find a national chain of booksellers offering discounts, sales, weekend offers, or whatever.

 

As a publisher I'd cringe, because being that this is the very last volume, you're going to have that built up excitement from a limited segment of book readers. As to say the people who are going to be buying AMoL could be anticipated to be those who have read through the entire series over the years - unless of course you're the kind of person who buys the 14th book first? - SO, if you've gotten this far in the series, its more than likely you'd buy the last book whether it's in November, or January.

 

Since we have so many volumes & records of sales, Tor can more than likely have a good handle on volume of sales over time. With all of that data collected over 20 years, being able to anticipate numbers seeing as how it's the very last book. Would you want to release that into a seasonal market, or wait a comparatively short amount of time to where you'd command full price, without interference of crazy holiday sales driven discounting.

 

 

...

 

 

I guess I'm saying why would you undercut your profits, on the end of the line for this series, with a couple decades of sales trends data indicating how large of a market segment you have - AMoL, being a final volume has an inherently limited audience; There's no other AMoL, no other alternative with regard specifically to WoT. If you want the final book to find out how it all ends, you have to buy this book (exempting of course alternative means, nefarious acquisition).

 

Thereby if you know there's only so many of this volume that you're going to sell in a relevant time-frame for profitability - from initial sales, six months following release - Would you really want to see even 10 percent of that finite market getting a comparatively higher production(physical) novel at a discount price?

 

People are going to buy it. I'm going to buy it. If it's discounted, on sale, I'd buy it. If I had to buy it full price, I'm still going to buy it.

 

If I were Tor, hell yeah I'd want people to be paying full price, and I'd go out of my way to avoid being caught with any tertiary agenda, like holiday blitzes, which could see my sales figures raped up the wazoo even in the slightest.

 

...

 

 

RRRRRAAAaaaaaaaaaarrr *cough :bela:

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I wonder if the release timing, relative to the winter holiday season, has anything to do with avoiding being caught in a situation where your end retailers are offering their products, in this case a book, at severe discount.

 

Between American Thanksgiving & Christmas we see stores more and more often slash prices, sometimes insanely, to get people in the door. Maybe from a certain point of view a publisher would push back a release date so they could maximize their returns, and avoid discount driven sales.

 

Given we're also talking about a final chapter in an epic series, with a physical volume that more than likely is going to be larger than a whole lot of everything else on the shelf, in a hardcover edition. I mean if you were in that situation would you really want to front all the funding to put something of that size out on the market, and then have absolutely no control over whether or not it's being sold at a deep holiday discount by the end retailer?

 

 

 

Pretty sure the discount only hurts the stores earnings. I don't know for sure how it works with books, but it should be much like with CDs. The store buys X copies from the record label (or publisher in this case). Then the store can usually put whatever pricetag they want on the product. Since store owners, just like publishers and record labels, are interested in making as much profit as possible, they simply can't offer huge discounts from day 1, as that means a huge cut in the profit on every single copy sold. Instead, they will try to keep the price as high as possible for as long as possible. And a book like AMOL will sell a huge amount of copies without any discount whatsoever.

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Pretty sure the discount only hurts the stores earnings. I don't know for sure how it works with books, but it should be much like with CDs. The store buys X copies from the record label (or publisher in this case). Then the store can usually put whatever pricetag they want on the product. Since store owners, just like publishers and record labels, are interested in making as much profit as possible, they simply can't offer huge discounts from day 1, as that means a huge cut in the profit on every single copy sold. Instead, they will try to keep the price as high as possible for as long as possible. And a book like AMOL will sell a huge amount of copies without any discount whatsoever.

 

Correct, whatever discounts the store applies has nothing to do with the publisher. Again, if anything this push back is going to hurt sales. This decision was not made with profits in mind.

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Right on, fellas.

 

I figured if retailers ended up having to offer AMoL at a discounted price, taking into account how the holiday consumer market's so so defined these days by discounting - the almost sense that you have to discount to attract customers, that it would deter those buyers, at the wholesale level, from wanting to release within that holiday season.

 

That's with the thought in mind that it's going to be a huge book(physically), boosting a wholesale price for the retailer, and it's a huge event for a limited audience of end-users...They won't make the money they could be making considering it is, what it is.

 

So I dunno, with all the buildup, retailers have got to be just as excited about the book as everyone who wants to buy it. Tor's probably more than likely spoken with those down the line to get their input and, if it were me, I'd be more than okay pushing things back for the sake of not having a holiday driven demand for less than optimal pricing.

 

As you said Suttree, it could have absolutely nothing to do with profit, but then again I'm probably not the only one who thought of that angle, and I spent 15 minutes blasting atomic curry crud out my rear on the can tossing the thought around my head.

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So now I know when the story ends, the series has been such a huge impact on myself and I'm sure many others, when I finish the book and know there will be no more stories too tell, no matter what satisfaction I get, I will be so sad that its over.

 

Will tell you one thing, I guarantee that I will wish Tor hadn't released it yet and I still had it too look forward too, the hours I have spent on this site reading and pondering all the theories......no more.

 

Thanks Harriet and Brandon for allowing the series too be completed but surely you could have taken longer, wrote more chapters, split it into two books and give us more too look forward to............

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If they were only doing this for marketing and hype, they'd force Harriet to release it in time for the holiday shopping season. Or delay until the 2013 holiday season. Waiting until January will actually mean the loss of some first week sales.

 

I disagree and I work in the industry. In retail - across the board - the much-ballyhooed ''Christmas/Holiday Boost'' is vastly overrated. This is a novel that would be bought by every single WOT fan no matter WHEN it is released.

Except for all those who waited for the paperback, of course. Not everyone shares our degree of obsession with the series. There will be a hell of a lot of people out there who want the ending, but who won't be there at opening time on the day of release begging for a copy. There will be plenty of people who want it sometime as opposed to now, now, NOW. Why hurt sales by appealng only to the most obsessive part of your fanbase, especially when most of your readers are only casual? More people will buy it - either for themselves or as presents - in the run up to Christmas than another time of year. Delaying might have benefits, but selling more is unlikely to be one of them.

 

 

I seriously can't believe how much people are freaking out. It's two freaking months. If they said it was November 2013 instead of 12 yeah I'd be pissed as well but it's two months from when we expected. And another thing, isn't Harriet retired? I thought her only editing was done on WoT nowadays and she volunteered to help Brandon on his Stormlight Archive books

 

 

NO. It is NOT. This repeated obfuscation really makes my ears steam.

 

Please be accurate. Originally the final book was to be released in November of 2009, in one volume. The volume was then, predictably, split in half - then, into THREE volumes. In an attempt to assuage outrage we were PROMISED November 09, November 2010 and November 2011. What happened to that promise? How did we get from THERE to January of 2013?

 

These are the questions nobody wants to examine - much less answer. But when there once was a point in time when we were told the ''final book'' would be released in 2009, do not call january 2013 being pushed back a ''paltry couple of months.''

Plenty of people have examined them. With the best will in the world, people won't always be able to get things done on time. Delays happen. A book a year was the goal, it was an aspiration. Unfortunately, they fell short - they put out a lot of material, but Sanderson is only human, not an automated writing machine. We really have no reason to complain about such minor delays.

 

 

I wonder if the release timing, relative to the winter holiday season, has anything to do with avoiding being caught in a situation where your end retailers are offering their products, in this case a book, at severe discount.

They will likely be offering discounts regardless. Remember, retailers are in competition with one another. If Amazon offers the book at 50% off, Waterstone's at 25% off and WHSmith at full price, why would I go to Smith's? It's far from uncommon to see discounts on major new releases, regardless of when in comes out. So it makes no difference. Delay, and we still get a shot at discounted books. I bought KOD at a discount, and that was months after Christmas. And that's leaving aside the point people have already made.

 

Personally, I'm in no hurry. I want to read the book, but I am prepared to wait, and a minor delay such as this isn't really a problem. January is fine.

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Personally I don't see much difference if there's a delai of a few months. Well, I've been waiting for the new books since 95, it isn't anything new to wait. I've even learnt not to hold my breath before any releases or events of any kind really, enjoy breathing much too much. You just can't force a work of art to schedule, not and get anything above standard anyway.

 

Getting to read the book, well that'll be a change certainly. After that it is, after all, the end, finito, the rest in your own head as to what comes of these people.

 

Just have to trust the stew will be just that better, as Tam intimated in the Eye of the World, when it gets a little more time, even though your hungry now. Hope a Trolloc doesn't come barging in this time.

Edited by Graendals favourite
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In the US at any rate, Walmart drives book prices just as they do many other things.

 

Amazon will match whatever price Walmart sells for, and that pretty much forces everybody else to fall into line.

 

Walmart discounted The Gathering Storm in presale. Amazon was forced to follow suit. By the time they got done tit-fot-tatting, I believe I got my copy for just over $14 or less than twice the cost of the paperback when it finally appeared. Same for Towers of Midnight. TGS actually arrived at my door on release date. ToM was a day or two late.

 

Whatever price I pay, the retailer I get it from pays whatever price they have managed to negotiate with TOR. TOR's margin on the book is pretty constant regardless. It's only the turkeys that don't sell, where the publisher has to take them back and fire sale them to the surplus outlets that they take the chance of losing any money on.

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On the upside it had been long enough between when KoD & TGS were released, that I'd actually forgotten about it to the extent that when I walked through a bookstore at some point, and saw it on the shelf(TGS) it was more of a oh hey! OH HEY! cool surprise moment.

 

January's totally fine with me too for sure, I just think it's neat to wonder about the different angles/forces at play when it comes to that decision making process.

 

...That and I know a one-off local bookstore that always puts out next day releases the late afternoon before - much to the chagrin of the register clerk cashing me out for ToM. "I don't think we're even supposed to be selling this ye-" "TOO LATE! ssssucker *mellowdramatic evil laughter

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At this point my view of WOT as a good but SERIOUSLY flawed epic is pretty much cemented. Certainly one more delay really isn't enough to impact that very much(especially compared to my evaluation of the final book whenever it finally comes out). All the same, I don't think new readers really understand how frustrating this whole thing has been for those of us who have been reading the series since the mid or early nineties. Rereading over and over because of the long breaks, enduring entire books of watered down sub-plots after waiting years to know what would happen next, the incessant string of delays and unkept promises- this kind of stuff has all but killed the excitement I had reading the first third of the series. Whether Robert Jordan's vision for the story became vague or he just wanted to put more books out or maybe he just bit off a little bit more than he could chew- I don't know. The writing was still good, but all momentum had pretty much become glacial by book 8, in terms of plot as well as production.

 

When I heard Sanderson had signed on to finish I was a little skeptical, but I was willing to take the inevitable slight blow to quality if it meant that finishing the series was once again going to be a priority for someone besides the fans. Jordan had previously promised to finish in one last book, but I can't imagine any long time reader who believed he was capable. If they did, they must have been horrified.

 

I really don't want to be cynical, but it's hard to imagine at this point that the financial interests of at least some of those involved in putting the book out aren't working to the detriment of the readers. I don't speak in reference to this particular delay so much as the overall trend in the way WOT has developed over the years. Everyone knows that when a TV show is successful new seasons are added to prolong a story that had originally been shorter. That's how TV works, and how things work with books sometimes as well. Maybe that applies here and maybe it doesn't. Maybe Jordan and others involved really thought all the extra bloat in the books was interesting and necessary, but it's a little hard to imagine. Either way, I don't think it's really debatable that this series has taken far, far longer to complete than it should have, and not just because of the death of Robert Jordan. As another poster said, I will, of course, still buy the book when it comes out. But at this point, I probably wouldn't recommend the series to a friend for same reason I wouldn't encourage them to enter a relationship with a wonderful and beautiful mate who I knew was going to leave them at the altar.

Edited by batcaver
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I think the pressure of getting it right is pretty high. I don't know what January 8 means to "the hype", and I don't care. It's their choice if, and when, the book is published. I'm fine with whatever date it should arrive. I will read it whenever it comes out.

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People, we know this is something that many of you feel very strongly about. And we know that with strong feelings comes the urge to express them. And that's fine, that is why these boards exist in the first place, after all.

 

However, while we do accept some strongly worded posts, there is a line. And right now this thread is coming dangerously close to reaching that line. We will not accept that this blows completely out of proportions like the discussion about the split did. So if you want this discussion to continue, take a deep breath and think twice, maybe even thrice before you hit that little button that says 'post'.

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While I want the book NOW, there will be no fan backlash for this. Or is anyone here actually not going to buy the book like the day it comes out? Seriously. If they pushed the publication back to 2015 just for the heck of it, you know we'd all still be camped out at the bookstore a week beforehand.

 

You want it. You need it. They know it. They'll give it to you when they want to. Just be glad it isn't $50.

 

Signed,

 

A Cubs fan

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Okay guys, I know this is a high tension topic, but enough with the personal attacks. Those that were made have been removed.

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To Donk: I just wanted to apologize. I didn't like your wording but I should have taken a different approach. My fault.

 

To me, its not what people think that tightens my jaws about this. I know how hard Brandon works and I can certainty understand circumstances altering expected deadlines.

 

I am not a fan of all the ways it is being handled. Also, the marketing aspects rub me a bit wrong. To say "They are a business, they SHOULD be trying to maximize this!" seems a bit simplistic to me as well. I feel like Tor/Team Jordan got to practically wade in an excess of hype, marketing and profit for both TGS and TOM in the last few years, when originally all they were going to release was one book.. It'd be nice to not feel a sense of overkill with this last volume. Tor has already announced they will be selling merchandise related to AMOL leading up to the release. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oversaturation. Meh.

 

This combined with Harriet's ....unfortunate....attitude towards Ebooks (a cause Ive worked hard to champion) with the almost melodramatic lockdown on almost ALL fan questions....

 

I saw an interview recently where Maria RAFOD....TWENTY ONE questions in a row!!! ...Seriously??? Apparently she has a bit of an attitude about Questions/RAFOS too...its disappointing. Singing it? Shouting "Score!" After getting to say it. Having flashcards made?

 

I have wondered for years if Harriet, Brandon, Maria, RJ ever understood that fans stopped thinking RAFOS were 'cute' and started getting sincerely peeved by them. I understand not revealing huge secrets, but Team Jordan got "RAFO Happy", lets not kid ourselves. And 21 in a row!?

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to go off on that tangent. Sorry.

 

It all just seems to have gotten so...so....OVERBLOWN.

 

I met Robert Jordan 21 years ago. It wasn't brief, either. Amazing man. Maybe he would have been comfortable with how its all gone. Who knows?

 

I guess I just miss when The Wheel of Time was all about stories. Just my opinions, everyone. But from the heart.

 

I appreciate everything Brandon has done and I think Ive said my peace on this now. Thanks for letting me.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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You realize that Maria interview was organized by fans who deliberately only gave her questions they knew would be RAFOs, right? It was meant as a joke that Maria was in on. Matt Hatch's sense of humor is a little warped, but the whole thing was meant to be funny.

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Quick off-topic q, JenniferL: What ever happened with that DM birthday celebration graphic novel giveaway thing?

 

Please/Thanks!

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Someone won it. I don't remember who though. One of them was a pretty active poster though.

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I only have one comment. Both RJ and the Illustrator passed away working on the final book. If I was involved in getting the book out I would rather have it out tomorrow because well I am superstitious...lol it just might be jinxed....

 

It will get here when it gets here. And I will be waiting....

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