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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Release Date Announced: Jan. 8, 2013


Kivam
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Well, in the world of cover artists, if anyone can compete with that reputation, it's Whelan. He's done the covers for many of the most successful fantasy books of the last few decades. And, with all respect to DKS, his art is near-universally loved.

 

Yes. Also, I mentioned all the Sunrunner books he did, but he also did the first and last books in King's Dark Tower series.

 

Hes just...gifted.

 

 

Fish

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I have to wonder if he is feeling a bit daunted. I know the man is an absolute professional and has worked in the business for 40 some odd years, and IMO he is the best fantasy cover artist in the genre, but I don't know if he has ever made a cover for such a well established fan base or had to try to please a fan base as rabid as ours is, not to mention having to sit in DKS's shadow for this book.

Edited by trench
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I have to wonder if he is feeling a bit daunted. I know the man is an absolute professional and has worked in the business for 40 some odd years, and IMO he is the best fantasy cover artist in the genre, but I don't know if he has ever made a cover for such a well established fan base or had to try to please a fan base as rabid as ours is, not to mention having to sit in DKS's shadow for this book.

 

 

I would say doing the art for a number of Stephen King's Dark Tower books qualifies. Perhaps that fan base isn't as rabid, but it certainly is well established.

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And obviously he cut them a deal since he will have 9 months at most to complete it.

Firstly, good going on calling this one. But I'm not so sure regarding this, because when Brandon finished the first draft (Dec20) they could easily have sent it to him, whether or not a deal was finalized (they knew they would need someone to do it for at least two weeks, and as you say, Whelan seems the obvious choice). Certainly, the deal was actually finalized before we heard of it (it had to be, before they announced postponing the release at the latest).

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And obviously he cut them a deal since he will have 9 months at most to complete it.

Firstly, good going on calling this one. But I'm not so sure regarding this, because when Brandon finished the first draft (Dec20) they could easily have sent it to him, whether or not a deal was finalized (they knew they would need someone to do it for at least two weeks, and as you say, Whelan seems the obvious choice). Certainly, the deal was actually finalized before we heard of it (it had to be, before they announced postponing the release at the latest).

He could have sent the first draft, but the cover has to be in physical production well before the book is actually released, you know. And I don't think Brandon would have sent his first draft. It's not even a real draft, since he deliberately leaves huge chunks that are not good writing to fix up in the second draft. I'm guessing that's what he sent to Whelan, but Jason is saying on Twitter that Whelan will be working with the notes that Brandon gave to DKS for the scene he wanted on the cover, since he doesn't have enough time to read the book. And Whelan always insists on reading the book, so obviously there was a compromise here. And it's possible that they still haven't sent him a draft of the book; Brandon might want to get through at least one Team revision before letting anyone else see it.

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I'd be much more interested in whether Whelan has read the other 13 books, rather than if he gets to read aMoL in time. That seems much more important to me. Any idea if he has?

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No. But if it makes you feel any better, we don't know if DKS did either.

 

PS—I suspect that they paid him a bit extra back when they nabbed him for the ebook cover and asked him to read the whole series. But I could be wrong. If they haven't told us by now, they probably never will.

Edited by Terez
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No. But if it makes you feel any better, we don't know if DKS did either.

 

PS—I suspect that they paid him a bit extra back when they nabbed him for the ebook cover and asked him to read the whole series. But I could be wrong. If they haven't told us by now, they probably never will.

 

So, you see, it does come down to marketing after all. Or at least what somebody high-up at Tor thinks Marketing needs to be.

 

The fact is the cover art is not going to sell the final volume of, as you describe it, "a well established series." We'd take it with nothing but the Black/White Yin/Yang Aes Sedai symbol for cover art.

 

Somebody at Tor is stuck in second grade. Thinking that every book has to be marketed as though it were the only book. A standalone. When in actual fact this is the final volume of one of the longest series in fantasy history. It will rise or fall on the interest created in the series itself by the content of the previous 13 volumes, not because it's got some whiz-bang cover art.

 

To delay the release for cover art is idiocy. Plain idiocy.

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LOL. Well, that was predictable. Just keep in mind that not everyone agrees. It's not about marketing to Harriet so much as it is about doing things the right way, clearly. Choosing another artist at this point would have been downright tacky. Choosing Whelan was thematically the only right choice, for many reasons, most especially 1) he was already doing the ebook cover, 2) he was on RJ's original shortlist of two for the cover artist, 3) he is one of the most celebrated cover artists of all time, and 4) they had to do their best to honor DKS's memory, just as they did their best to honor RJ's memory by having the books finished properly.

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LOL. Well, that was predictable. Just keep in mind that not everyone agrees. It's not about marketing to Harriet so much as it is about doing things the right way, clearly. Choosing another artist at this point would have been downright tacky. Choosing Whelan was thematically the only right choice, for many reasons, most especially 1) he was already doing the ebook cover, 2) he was on RJ's original shortlist of two for the cover artist, 3) he is one of the most celebrated cover artists of all time, and 4) they had to do their best to honor DKS's memory, just as they did their best to honor RJ's memory by having the books finished properly.

 

Sorry, Terez, but I can't resist.

 

Daryl K. Sweet's cover art and illustrations are universally loathed. Worldwide. The Foreign publishers insist upon creating their own covers. At extra expense to themselves. That's how universally loathed Sweet's covers are. Honoring his memory properly would be to ask a First Grader to color-up something original with the BIG Crayons.

 

It's one more weak excuse heaped upon a pile of bad and questionable decisions being made by the people we are supposed to trust to make the book BETTER????

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Sorry, Terez, but I can't resist.

 

Daryl K. Sweet's cover art and illustrations are universally loathed. Worldwide. The Foreign publishers insist upon creating their own covers. At extra expense to themselves. That's how universally loathed Sweet's covers are. Honoring his memory properly would be to ask a First Grader to color-up something original with the BIG Crayons.

 

It's one more weak excuse heaped upon a pile of bad and questionable decisions being made by the people we are supposed to trust to make the book BETTER????

 

What's important is the work and effort he put into those covers, not how well liked they are. That's what honoring his memory means. Whether you like his covers or not is an opinion, even if it is a widespread opinion.

Edited by Master Ablar
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Yes, she didn't say respect his legacy, but his memory.

 

Well, that was predictable.

See, now I can't resist. Do you think that it's predictability stems from there being an actual argument here? It would've been so funny to read responses here should Tor had decided to release the English version as planned but postpone the American one for the cover art.

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It's one more weak excuse heaped upon a pile of bad and questionable decisions being made by the people we are supposed to trust to make the book BETTER????

 

One would think given how many times your opinion has shown to be off throughout this thread you might have revised/eased back on your take at this point. How can Team Jordan doing everything possible to ensure this is the best all around book it can be, be considered "bad and questionable" just because a small minority(of an already small sliver of the fan base) can't be patient for the release?

 

As for the cover art, I know at the time I started this series the cover of EotW was what drew me in. He has done some other good things such as the tPoD cover as well. While DKS's work is not my favorite and has many shortcomings some people love it, "universally loathed" is a fairly big overstatement.

Edited by Suttree
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Yes, she didn't say respect his legacy, but his memory.

 

Well, that was predictable.

See, now I can't resist. Do you think that it's predictability stems from there being an actual argument here?

No, it was predictable because I have ESP. :rolleyes: The argument was predictable. That doesn't make it a good one. I already said in the post I linked about this in the first place that they probably separated the release date from Whelan specifically to avoid the fanrage from the handful who would be crass enough to insist that they get some other artist who could do it quicker.

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No, you shouldn't do that. Expressing resentment isn't disrespectful of Mr. Sweet's memory, and using words such as 'crass' to suggest otherwise is wrong.

 

I said so before and I'll do it however long it's required - the negative reaction stems from the way in which Tor has handled their costumers (and I do mean just that, they're obviously 'handling' us all, those who mind and those who don't together). There's nothing at all wrong with DSK's unfortunate passing having implications on this project; that was to be expected. Just as there wouldn't have been anything wrong with Harriet's coming to the realization that she needs more time (or Brandon's not meeting his self-imposed goals).

It's the part about spinning tales (as you say, separating the issues in the public's eye), claiming other motivations, and making promises they can't keep that is wrong. And we should at least have the decency to say so, instead of pointing fingers at those of us who are feeling particularly frustrated.

 

I was glad to think that they're taking extra time on the editing (the book would need it), and while I care much less about its packaging, I realize that it's part of the product and everyone involved wants it to be handled in the best possible manner. While disappointed, I don't blame anyone for the delays this has caused in the release date. What I absolutely can't stand, though, is being 'handled'.

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No, you shouldn't do that. Expressing resentment isn't disrespectful of Mr. Sweet's memory, and using words such as 'crass' to suggest otherwise is wrong.

I disagree, because you're weighing close personal relationships between people who have been fully invested in this series for two decades against people who want the book two months earlier and are bitter about having to wait. You're weighing Harriet's dedication to doing what RJ would have wanted against two more months of waiting for a book, which we all know, for the first time ever, is essentially finished. We know we are going to get it. Just two months.

 

It's the pettiness of it that makes it crass.

 

I said so before and I'll do it however long it's required - the negative reaction stems from the way in which Tor has handled their costumers (and I do mean just that, they're obviously 'handling' us all, those who mind and those who don't together). There's nothing at all wrong with DSK's unfortunate passing having implications on this project; that was to be expected. Just as there wouldn't have been anything wrong with Harriet's coming to the realization that she needs more time (or Brandon's not meeting his self-imposed goals).

It's the part about spinning tales (as you say, separating the issues in the public's eye), claiming other motivations, and making promises they can't keep that is wrong. And we should at least have the decency to say so, instead of pointing fingers at those of us who are feeling particularly frustrated.

There are more things going on here, though. For one, there were a lot of fans begging for them to spend more time on this one to make sure it's right. So they already had that pressure from fans, and they fulfilled that obligation first by moving the release date to November. Partly this was also 1) Brandon not being able to do the same thing for a whole year, much less five years in a row, and 2) Brandon and Tor not wanting to completely let down Brandon's fans for so long. Brandon does other things. He set a deadline for finishing AMOL, and pushed it back a couple of months IIRC. He wanted to have the first draft finished and handed in (meaning second draft, really) before he went on tour for Alloy of Law. That didn't happen.

 

The same fans who were hoping for more time, and a truly detailed revision process, were even happier when the release date was pushed back just a little bit more. As I said on Tor, I should have called Whelan on the release date, but I was so happy about it that it didn't occur to me that there might be some other reason. I had even theorized when DKS passed that they would get Whelan to do the print cover, and I had wondered how they were going to pull it off with Whelan's restrictions. I didn't consider at the time that they would push back the release date, because I know how WoT fans can be about release dates. That's why RJ never estimated them, and always said that the next book would come out shortly after he finished writing it, until the release date was set.

 

As for how Tor 'handled' us, I think they did the right thing. Partly that's because there are a lot of us who wanted more time spent on the last book, getting all the little details right, because as Brandon said in his blog post on the subject, once it's done, it's done. I personally have been giving him a hard time on Twitter and various other places, and I know of other fans who have done the same. It's not that I don't like Brandon and respect what he's doing here. I just worry intensely about the little details since the release of TOM. Two more months was good news for people like me...and there are a lot of those people out there.

 

I don't believe that Tor manipulated us by announcing those reasons for the release date. I believe that the decision was probably made in the spirit of compromise. Brandon didn't want to take any longer with the book than was originally planned, because he wants to be free to do his own stuff. But at the same time, he wants to do it right. Harriet doesn't want to spend any longer on it. She wants to be retired. But she has an obligation to RJ's deathbed wish. But with all the pressure from fans like me, the Whelan deal became a little more feasible. Putting the public pressure on Whelan for something that came about because WoT has the world's pickiest fans is unfair to Whelan, especially considering that the vast majority of fans are delighted that Whelan is doing the last cover, and would not like for there to be any backlash in his direction simply because the fans who get agitated about release dates are so often the loudest.

 

And if you can't stand being 'handled', imagine how they feel. Don't you think the fans 'handle' them, to a great extent? The mid-late books of the series would have been much better books if RJ had spent a year more on each of them (which would probably have resulted in 1 or 2 less books). RJ was always under intense pressure to put out a book. Between 1991 and 1994 he worked 14- to 16-hour days, essentially 7 days a week. His doctor told him he had to quit or he was going to die. So he cut back. But the fans had to have a book every 2 years, at the absolute most. So 7-11 is what we got. Brandon is young, and can handle the long hours, but 1) he does other things, and 2) doesn't seem to spend as much time on revision as RJ did.

 

I might feel some sympathy for this position if the reasons given for the release date were not perfectly legitimate reasons, and if the desire to separate Whelan from the release date (which I appear to have botched personally) were not also perfectly legitimate. You are, of course, free to whinge about it all you like. Whinging about it isn't necessarily crass. Suggesting they find a cheaper/quicker cover artist would be crass, though, because it doesn't consider any factors other than 'OMG I HAVE TO WAIT TWO MORE MONTHS FOR A BOOK'.

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I don't know if you noticed it before, but you're preaching to the choir. I myself, as I mentioned above, think that ToM (and TGS, to a lesser extent) would've gained much from more revisions, and though I didn't say so to Brandon online (I don't think he reads my Twits), I did say as much here. Especially considering that Brandon finished the draft late December rather than early November (which I also mentioned).

 

That's why it does no good to explain to me how good the reasons are for postponing this release. What I'm talking about is completely different - that I don't like being lied to and having the truth spun in just the correct way to control my reaction. This is a completely separate issue, and as such the validity of the reasons for the delay have no bearing on it.

Look, I get that you feel partially responsible for the Whelan deal getting explained. Which is why I don't mind your calling my posts whinges (plus, I learned a new word). Try as you might, though, it's not at all about TWO MORE MONTHS - it's about how they were announced (and about making sure that other posters don't get railroaded).

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I don't know if you noticed it before, but you're preaching to the choir. I myself, as I mentioned above, think that ToM (and TGS, to a lesser extent) would've gained much from more revisions, and though I didn't say so to Brandon online (I don't think he reads my Twits), I did say as much here. Especially considering that Brandon finished the draft late December rather than early November (which I also mentioned).

 

That's why it does no good to explain to me how good the reasons are for postponing this release. What I'm talking about is completely different - that I don't like being lied to and having the truth spun in just the correct way to control my reaction. This is a completely separate issue, and as such the validity of the reasons for the delay have no bearing on it.

Look, I get that you feel partially responsible for the Whelan deal getting explained. Which is why I don't mind your calling my posts whinges (plus, I learned a new word). Try as you might, though, it's not at all about TWO MORE MONTHS - it's about how they were announced (and about making sure that other posters don't get railroaded).

You seem to have missed the point of everything I wrote. I went into that aspect of it as well. And the conflict was originally over my use of the word 'crass', which has nothing to do with what you're talking about here.

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I don't believe that I did (certainly not 'everything', if we're being fair), but either way, if my rebuff is what we're dealing with, then establishing that there's a real grievance here that has nothing to do with the decision to postpone publication of AMoL goes straight to the core of why it's wrong to suggest that addressing that concern is disrespectful to DKS's memory.

If your use of the word 'crass' wasn't meant to indicate that (i.e., if you believe there's some other reason why it's crass to give those concerns voice here), then I apologize. But if it was, I think you should.

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I was very clear about my use of the word 'crass'. Try going back and looking at it.

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This is why I feel 13 months is longer than is reasonable to edit and publish a book.

 

The first 8 books in this series were WRITTEN, edited, and published in less than the 13 months each. Most were done in eleven months.

 

So am I supposed to accept that it will take Harriet longer to edit a book written by Sanderson than it took RJ to write the book and then let her edit it.

 

If the artists selection is what drove the extra long time then why not just say it?

Edited by The 3 ta'veren
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Alright, let me get this straight.

 

Sweet passes away late November. Late December we have the omigod AMoL is finished press release that hopefully someone was fired over. Two months later, we get a Jan 2013 release date press release. Yah, that's just brilliant marketing :)

 

The 3 ta'veren, more than is reasonable for 80s-90s RJ who did at least 10 complete drafts before going to editing perhaps. Actually would like to know what a reasonable amount of time is expected of an editor for 300k words just for grammar and consistency, leaving out it being a complicated fantasy.

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This is why I feel 13 months is longer than is reasonable to edit and publish a book.

 

The first 8 books in this series were WRITTEN, edited, and published in less than the 13 months each. Most were done in eleven months.

TGH was already essentially finished when TEOTW was published. RJ spend the year until it was published getting ahead. Things finally caught up with him at LOC, and that's when the books started taking two years to finish despite covering less ground. Partly that was the law of diminishing returns; partly it was his health, which caused him to shorten his workday considerably.

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I'm actually shocked at how angry everybody here is. Here's my exact reaction to finding out the release date.

*Google Search "amol release date"*

OMG they finally announced the release date this is so awesome thank god now I know when to start my reeread I can't wait it'll be so cool

*Read page*

Oh. They pushed it back a month and a half. That's annoying.

*Ten seconds of thought*

You know, they probably really need this time. I really don't want them messing this up, and what with a whole lot of complications, this is probably best. I'm still kind of disappointed, but I trust them.

 

That's it. Grow up. You can wait an extra few weeks for this book.

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